Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine

It bothers me that in order for certain PT plot points to work, I have to A) watch the Clone Wars cartoon B) reference a Lucas quote about the given scene C) read a Visual Companion or D) craft some kind of elaborate theory about why ________ happened. Here's a for instance:

Someone named "Darth Toe Jam" on another SW forum (thefarce.net) trumpets in his signature that he thought of the Anakin/Vader "Duel Persona" theory before Lucas confirmed it. The Dual Persona theory, for the unitiated, states that Anakin died when he became Darth Vader and that's why Mannequin Skywalker appears at the end of ROTJ. I have two questions:

1) Why wasn't this made evident in the movies? Why do we need to hear from George Lucas after the fact?
2) Who the Blue Hell threw the Emperor down the freaking Death Star II shaft?!? Lucas made it clear that Anakin was dead at that point!

This is the kind of thing that can drive me up a goddamn wall in the PT. Some stuff gets explained into the ground while other stuff is presented so badly that the question remains unanswered on film.

Again, I don't deny a bias in this matter, but I think by and large the majority of my criticisms of the PT are rooted in storytelling flaws.

This is such a key point, and I think the major reason why the films are not great is cause Lucas was trying to make OT style serial type movies with a supposed serious/mature PT story, and the two don't mesh.

The success of the OT was that Lucas used the serial style of the 30's, where he combined the movies to be fun, adventurous, mythological, funny, and serious all at once. I love that the OT movies had humor in it, but not too much where it was forced. I loved that the OT had groundbreaking special effects, but they weren't the reason the movies were great, they were just icing on the cake. I loved that the OT movies had mythological qualities with ObiWan & Yoda and the Jedi, but not too much where it dominated the story. I also love that the OT movies are just plain fun to watch just like any summer blockbuster, but in the same vein they seemed more mature, more adult, seemed to have that depth that summer blockbusters usually lack.

For the PT, Lucas was telling a different story, a character study that turns tragic, and ends on a downer, but the problem is he still tried to use the B-movie serial style of the OT movies, and that is why so many parts of the movies come off as cringeworthy or utterly laughable and those moments just weren't evident in the OT movies.

The humor in the PT is all forced, and just awful compared to the OT movies. And it aint just about not having a Han Solo in the trilogy, it is about forcing the humor in the movie rather then writing it on paper and letting it happen naturally. Jar Jar was put in TPM for humor, plain & simple, and that is why he sticks out in every scene. C3PO was put on Geonosis for humor during the Clone Wars, and that is why he sticks out during those scenes. R2D2 was put in the beginning of ROTS for humor, and again it just seems so forced and gets alittle too much when the droid kicks R2 and he fall down. Now think of the OT movies, and the characters bickering in the deathstar as they try to escape, it is funny cause the characters are just reading their lines and playing their parts, and the chemistry between the actors just clicked, and that is why the humor is not forced, but it is damn funny.

Lucas should have made the PT more serious not just in story as though I feel he did, but target the movies away from children, cause it is so laughable to have a character study trilogy of a man who becomes evil, but target the movies towards children with characters like Jar Jar, it just doesn't mix. The reason the AOTC scenes with Padme/Anakin are so awful and cheesy is because Lucas intended to do that thinking this is Romeo & Juliet, but forgetting that in B-movie serials in the 30's, none of them had a deep romance of two people falling in love for 2 hours, and that is why Han/Leia romance worked in ESB, it was short scenes of just enough to make its point, but not dominate the movie. If Lucas had Han/Leia in more scenes proffessing their love ALL through ESB, it would have been cringeworthy in 1980.

I always say that Lucas wanted it both ways with the PT, and that is why so many have not loved it, or chose to acknowledge as their saga. He wanted to tell a different story, with different characters, in a totally different time period, but still use the exact things that made the OT great, and that is why it came off so cheesy and cringworthy at times, and really just takes you out of the movie.

Just think of all the macro things in the PT, and how good or great some of the scenes were: The duel in TPM, The whole Kamino section with the Clones, the Jedi Council, and the Senate on Coruscant. Sure they are not great all great moments, but they work well in the SW style and I don't gag when watching those scenes, they feel like SW to me. Then think of all the character study things that Lucas attempted with Padme/Anakin, or little Anakin, and how bad they come off in the trilogy. Just think of 10 year old Jake Lloyd saying 'Yipee,' and the whole Anakin/Padme romance in AOTC, the turn in ROTS, and Padme losing the will to live. All that stuff had to be able to show the motivations of the characters to fully understand where they are coming at, and the way SW movies are made, it is just very hard to convey that on screen, and that is why they come off as just plain bad to so many fans.