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First Impressions of the OOT ... — Page 15

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Originally posted by: Daniel
May be somebody can answer me this question: How come nobody acknowledges (if not praises) how much better the Battle at Yavin looks in the SE-ANH?


For me, it's because the original represents a huge amount of groundbreaking, innovative, and very well-executed practical and optical effects work, and the SE represents ho-hum, garden variety digital hard surface modeling. The SE version may look better, but it definitely doesn't represent the way the film had to be put together back in 1976. To create that battle in 1976 was amazing, while re-creating it in 1996 seems a whole lot more pedestrian.

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EXACTLY. Much like the original 1933 King Kong, the original Battle of Yavin is a technological marvel that never should have been messed with. People would never stand for someone going back & updating King Kong with CGI while destroying the original shots in the process & i'm amazed how many people are willing & even like this to happen to Star Wars!
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The SE version may look better, but it definitely doesn't represent the way the film had to be put together back in 1976. To create that battle in 1976 was amazing, while re-creating it in 1996 seems a whole lot more pedestrian.


My thoughts exactly. Star Wars was technically stunning back then! I mean face-meltingly groundbreaking. I am still amazed at their resourcefullness when I watch these films. I adore seeing all of those original optical effects. The practical models and miniatures and computer-controlled stop-motion animation was just revolutionary. I want to see all of that. All the sweat and blood and work that went into those effects is evident! Those guys were geniuses and it was a labor of love and it showed. This is so much more impressive to me than having some CG hackzor whip up effects on his Mac that countless others could replicate.

I love it when filmmakers of today chose practical effects over digital. Practical effects have a gravity and weight to them that digital has yet to recreate in my opinion. I have yet to see a digital effects film that doesn't look fake to my eye. I feel like FX these days are most sucessful when they blend the two, using digital effects only sparingly. Underworld is a great example of this. While the film is admittedly flawed, most of those effects look sensational since they used CGI only when absolutely necessary.

huzzah for archival THEATRICAL OT!!!
it is our duty to preserve star wars history...

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Originally posted by: Daniel
May be somebody can answer me this question: How come nobody acknowledges (if not praises) how much better the Battle at Yavin looks in the SE-ANH? I can pretty much understand every complaint except this one. The newer Battle at Yavin looks SO much better than it did in the OOT (and I was there in 1977 being 12 yrs old at the time).

Oh, I will grant you that. In fact, perhaps now is the time to admit I often watch Star Wars original up to that point in the film, but switch to the SE for the vastly superior Battle of Yavin (and then cringe when the Death Star blows up like something out of Star Trek).

Yeah, I was there in 1977 being 16 yrs old at the time ... and then, as now, it's not merely the lame effects that mar the battle of Yavin, but shots and editing that make murky what is going on. It's not a matter of the SE version looking slicker, it really communicates the action far better than the original.

A true improvement, imo, one of perhaps 3 SE modifications thruout the trilogy that I consider for the better.



Edited to add : I know it's sacrilege to prefer soulless digital over charming models, but I don't often watch Star Wars as an historical exercise. I honestly think the SE version of this one scene has remarkable clarity of action that the original version lacks.


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Lucas can pretty much do what he wants as far as I'm concerned. The bonus discs are cool.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen

I hardly matters to me ... because the audio track screams non-'77 in four places, and the experience of watching this disc does not seem like an original theatrical version ... because it's not.
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Now this is exactly what I'm interested in! What are the non-'77 parts of the GOUT edition? Where is the soundtrack different to the '77 theatrical version? Where is the picture different? Could you enlighten us - or point me to an appropriate forum?
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Oh gosh, someone here in one of these threads (perhaps even a few pages back in this one) posted an amazingly complete list of the audio differences between the original '77 stereo mix and the one used for the new DVD. I'll try to find it. It was actually a link to an audio file with one channel being the '77 mix and the other the current mix, and there were time codes for each audio difference. Amazing.

Anyways, most of the differences were "sweeteners" to explosion sounds or additional droid sounds. The four that stand out to me are:

1) The whooshing sounds of Alderaan asteroid debris as they stream past the Falcon cockpit window.

2) The glass explosion sounds when blaster fire hits any surveillance camera during the shootout in the cellblock.

As has been demonstrated to me by the local experts, those differences are legitimate. The other two (listed below) dialogue bits were not in the 1977 stereo mix, but rather were featured in the '77 mono mix:

a) C3PO's detailed tractor beam speech

b) a Stormtrooper's "Close the blast doors."


So, it turns out there's only two really audible (to me) changes, and a bunch of minor audio changes that I would never notice if they were not pointed out to me (I'll try to find the post about that audio comparison, and link to it). And, as far as I know, there are no visual differences (it being convincingly demonstated to me that the opening crawl is the real deal).



Edited to add : There's a lot of information in this thread which I started to address this very issue. I'm 98% sure the post I'm thinking of is somewhere in there ... but, in any event, the whole thread is about what's '77 and what's not in the new DVD of Star Wars.

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Man, this release really opened up a can of worm. I knew there'd be backlash from fans and AV enthusists, but I didn't expec things to get so hot. I wonder if it means anything.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
For me, it's because the original represents a huge amount of groundbreaking, innovative, and very well-executed practical and optical effects work, and the SE represents ho-hum, garden variety digital hard surface modeling.
Looking at Star Wars in the context of motion picture history I think this perspective is very reasonable. There is little doubt that the original film represented a technological marvel at the time. I really want a fully restored version of the OT because, sometimes, I would like to sit down and watch faithful reproductions of some of the most groundbreaking and influental films in history. After Terminator 2, Jurassic Park and a slew of other films, doing some new CGI for the SE wasn't that hard.
The SE version may look better, but it definitely doesn't represent the way the film had to be put together back in 1976. To create that battle in 1976 was amazing, while re-creating it in 1996 seems a whole lot more pedestrian.

It was amazing indeed. On the other hand, when it's about nothing more than just enjoying the delightfully entertaining fairy-tale that is Star Wars for my own sake and according to my personal tastes, I much prefer the SE version of the battle of Yavin.
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Is there any way to pick up the GOUT versions on their own?

Or maybe they will be available to rent soon....







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Originally posted by: lord3vil
On the other hand, when it's about nothing more than just enjoying the delightfully entertaining fairy-tale that is Star Wars for my own sake and according to my personal tastes, I much prefer the SE version of the battle of Yavin.


On the other hand, there is that pesky bit of absent music that Marvolo pointed out above. Grrr, that makes it a toss-up for me. Seeing as how I worship and adore John Williams' score for Star Wars, I think I'd rather see the more clunky original than the better-communicating SE version of the Yavin Death Star Battle.

Clunky and all, but ORIGINAL '77 and not missing any music ... uh, the scales just tipped for me back to the original version.




Whew, I feel so much cleaner now.


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Originally posted by: Gregatron
The disc's optional Spanish and French language tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977

Very cool!

I have one question: in Star Wars, is Chewie called Chico in the French track? No, seriously.

(Han was also called Yan, and C3PO was Z6PO. They'd say it like cess/cease-pay-oh. The Falcon was also apparently called the Condor. Darth Vader was Dark Vador. R2D2 was D2R2 at times. Lots of references here: http://www.3dchips-fr.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=100174)

See, when I was growing up, I didn't have a VCR until the early 90s, and so I would watch the trilogy on TV whenever they came on, whether it was in English or in French, on some stations from Quebec. Whenever they played Star Wars in French, Chewie was called Chico (he was called Chewie in Empire and Jedi) I figure that since they're using a very old mono French track for the "bonus" disc, maybe he's called Chico in it and maybe it was the mono track I heard on Tv all those years ago.

My crazy vinyl LP blog

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My Retro blog

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen

On the other hand, there is that pesky bit of absent music that Marvolo pointed out above. Grrr, that makes it a toss-up for me. Seeing as how I worship and adore John Williams' score for Star Wars, I think I'd rather see the more clunky original than the better-communicating SE version of the Yavin Death Star Battle.

Clunky and all, but ORIGINAL '77 and not missing any music ... uh, the scales just tipped for me back to the original version.

Don't forget the way off color calibration in general and the pink explosions in particular. I agree with you here, since I too much prefer the 1977 original to the the 2004 SE. What I was getting at was that if I could have it my way (which, incidentally, it is becoming increasingly apparent that I can't) I would prefer the SE version of the battle of Yavin if it had a flawless soundtrack and a picture quality to match that of a properly remastered 1977 original. Again though, whenever I'd like to see the true face of the movie that became a phenomenon and changed the movie industry, it'd be the fully remastered and faithfully preserved 1977 version all the way.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
-from here the O-neg is altered in the digital environment once again, but unlike the 1997 version now the entire thing is digitized. The additions are made: gungans, ESB McDiarmid, Hayden, etc.


Are there gungans in the 2004 edition? I must have missed them... Where are they?
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They are in the Naboo celebration at the end of ROTJ. You can hear one yell "weesa free!" on the english audio track.


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Originally posted by: Marvolo
They are in the Naboo celebration at the end of ROTJ. You can hear one yell "weesa free!" on the english audio track.


Don't remind me. I wonder what awaits in the 2007 archival editions? Unless a remastered OOT is among it, I won't but it anyways, but curiosity calls to me.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Marvolo
They are in the Naboo celebration at the end of ROTJ. You can hear one yell "weesa free!" on the english audio track.


LOL, that's just hilarious. Another reason to never watch the 2004 DVD of Jedi that I own.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005