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Greedo subtitles outside the 16:9 frame

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Apart from the general low quality, I was breezing along pretty fine, until the Greedo scene. And there's these critical subtitles of what Greedo is saying. Only, I can't read half of them!

I have a 16:9 projector, so I zoomed in to use the full width. But this leaves half the subtitles invisible.

So in the middle of a key and very entertaining scene, I have to get out my projector remote and fumble around with aspect ratio, get back the postage stamp letterbox version to watch this scene, and later change it back.

Pure genius! If anyone needed any MORE evidence of the extreme laziness of this release, here it is.

What's other's thoughts on this?
Darth Lucas: I am altering the trilogy. Pray I don't alter it further.
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I think the subtitles for alien language should have been burned into the image.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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That's something I hadn't thought of, actually. Thanks for pointing that out.

It does, indeed, point out the true inadequacy of this release. Coming, as it does, in 2006, with 4:3 TVs disappearing from stores in favour of 16:9 flat panels and rear-projector screens (I envy you your projector and screen - if only I could afford it! ).

I think that many people who have said that this release is adequate for them because thay don't have a big screen to fill have overlooked problems like the one you describe.

The September Discs are a pile of wank.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
The September Discs are a pile of wank.

Yep, and exactly why I didn't get them.
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All of the Star Wars discs have this problem. Or I call it a problem. For some reason, they prefer it this way. Even the '93 laserdiscs had them outside of the frame, but at least they used the cool original font rather than this gross crap they use now. I don't know why they don't just burn the damn subtitles into the image. It really pisses me off that they don't. I wonder if there is someway I could edit the subtitle font out of the bootlegs I have now and somehow put them into the frame of the DVD release image. Probably not, but maybe there's some technically-minded person who can dig something out of that last sentence.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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As a person with only a 4:3 TV, I like subtitles in the black; they are easier to see, and they do not pollute the image.
Additionally, if they were burnt into the image, us 4:3'rs may have some difficulty reading them.

However, I bet that I too would complain if I were in your folks' shoes.
I know this is not an anamorpic release, but how do traditional anamorphic DVD releases handle subs? Are they in the black for 4:3 viewing, but overlay the image for widescreen TVs?
It would be ideal if there was a preference for on-image or in-black for subs on DVDs.

I thought I came up with a solution for the widescreeners - closed captioning - but I just checked, Greedo dialogue is not in the CC.
Too bad.
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There are DVD players on the market that have aspect ratio controls that will allow all of the sub-titles to be seen when you zoom-in on a 16:9 screen.

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But I still hate that font that the DVDs for all six movies use for the subtitles. You know what I'm talking about?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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check out tokyomonsters.com. They have a whole section about how to make your own backups of a dvd with your own subtitles. It's a Godzilla/Japanese giant monsters & robots fansite that has directions on how to make your own backup copies the japanese R2 godzilla dvds (which have no english subtitles) with english subtitles, which are downloadable from the site. This, of course, assumes you already own the official disc. While i doubt he has any premade star wars subs for download, i'm sure it would at least get you going...
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Cool! Thanks for the direction!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: consumer_x
I know this is not an anamorpic release, but how do traditional anamorphic DVD releases handle subs? Are they in the black for 4:3 viewing, but overlay the image for widescreen TVs?
I believe usual DVDs that don't feature burnt in subtitles feature two subtitles for each language option. The first is formatted for 4x3 TVs and the second is formatted for 16x9. Depending on what your TV settings your player is set to, it will play the appropriate subtitle. However, since these discs are not anamorphic, the subtitles are only formatted for 4x3 TVs and they get cut off on 16x9 displays.
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The only reason I think they'd not hardcode the subtitles for alien speaking is because not everyone that watches the movies speaks english and if softcoded subs are used it'll either make a mess over the hardcoded ones or have to be off the frame and cause the same framing problems.

....maybe. I'm sure this kinda situation has happened before and worked out fine.

Hey look, a bear!

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Originally posted by: Mielr
There are DVD players on the market that have aspect ratio controls that will allow all of the sub-titles to be seen when you zoom-in on a 16:9 screen.


I doubt that will salvage this situation, since this is a problem deriving straight from the source material and the fact that Luca$hFilm couldn't be arsed to adapt the material for present-day viewing technology. God, I'm glad I haven't bought these bastards...

People who have 4:3 TVs - I'm glad this won't affect you straight away. But when your existing TV packs in you'll be hard pressed to find ANY 4:3 TVs outside second hand dealerships. This impacts directly on the argument for purchasing this release that this MAY be the last time the OOT is ever released and it preserves it - it just can't be allowed!! I'm not going to buy such poor copies of such popular films, the rights to which are owned by someone who can easily afford to release them properly.

I firmly believe that the OOT will be release again in better ways. Luca$hFilm KNOW that this product will sell. They wouldn't release it at all if they didn't. But, even if Luca$hFilm DON'T plan to release it again at the moment, I'm still not going to waste my money on such a substandard product. I've abstained from purchasing any SW DVDs (PT, SE, OOT) for this long and I see no reason to give in now. Until Luca$hFilm release a product I can honestly say that I would like to own then my money will be going elsewhere.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
But I still hate that font that the DVDs for all six movies use for the subtitles. You know what I'm talking about?


I added subtitles to the EditDroid A New Hope disc and I have the ISOMix of the other two movies. I could make a kit like I did for Backstroke of the West for the official "Bonus discs", even though I am ok with them as is. I just need to buy these new releases. (I watched my friends copies previously, plus Wal-Mart had em playing.)
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Originally posted by: Mielr
There are DVD players on the market that have aspect ratio controls that will allow all of the sub-titles to be seen when you zoom-in on a 16:9 screen.


I doubt that will salvage this situation, since this is a problem deriving straight from the source material and the fact that Luca$hFilm couldn't be arsed to adapt the material for present-day viewing technology. God, I'm glad I haven't bought these bastards...

People who have 4:3 TVs - I'm glad this won't affect you straight away. But when your existing TV packs in you'll be hard pressed to find ANY 4:3 TVs outside second hand dealerships. This impacts directly on the argument for purchasing this release that this MAY be the last time the OOT is ever released and it preserves it - it just can't be allowed!! I'm not going to buy such poor copies of such popular films, the rights to which are owned by someone who can easily afford to release them properly.

I firmly believe that the OOT will be release again in better ways. Luca$hFilm KNOW that this product will sell. They wouldn't release it at all if they didn't. But, even if Luca$hFilm DON'T plan to release it again at the moment, I'm still not going to waste my money on such a substandard product. I've abstained from purchasing any SW DVDs (PT, SE, OOT) for this long and I see no reason to give in now. Until Luca$hFilm release a product I can honestly say that I would like to own then my money will be going elsewhere.

I agree 100%, aural, and I have done the same exact thing. Until Luca$ gives the OUT a proper release, NO THANKS!!!

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About subtitle placement ...

I know from firmware upgrades to my Philips DVD player that, when flashed, the player settings are reverted to factory defaults. This includes the option to define which TV type is attached to the player (choices are 4:3 or 16:9). The default is 4:3.

If I don't change it back to 16:9 and play an anamorphic disc using this 4:3 setting on my 16:9 TV, I see a letterboxed movie with subtitles way down in the black bars. If I zoom in to take full advantage of the entire wide screen, these subtitles drop below and out of the frame. This resembles the viewing experience of these newly release sub-quality 4:3 letterboxed editions when trying to watch them on a 16:9 screen (zoomed in to use the full width of the wide screen).

But I believe there is a way around this problem ...
According to my knowledge the subtitle's font type, size, colour and position in the frame (amongst other things) are controlled from the IFO files that go with the VOB files that contain the video and audio data ('stream'). If you copy the movies on the extra discs to your hard drive, you could use some editing tool to try altering some of the values for the subtitles and get them somewhat higher in frame. I'm not sure if IfoEdit enables you to do so, maybe some other tool.
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I actually used the zoom function on my Sister's RCA DVD player last night, and the sub-titles were fully viewable on the screen. Instead of being in the black bar area, they're on the frame.

I think the solution to the problem is to use the zoom function on your DVD player, and not on your TV. If your DVD player doesn't have a zoom function---save up for a new one.

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I don't have a big giant screen to watch these movies. I simply use the subs provided in the DVD. Easy to read my friends!

Thank you George Lucas!
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OK, I found the answer to your and my (for Dutch subtitles) problem.

There is a program called DVDSubEdit which is able to go into the copied VOB files on your hard drive (you'll need DVDDecrypter or DVDFab Decrypter for that), go into the VOB files and justify the placement of the subtitles. Unfortunately there isn't an option (yet) to downscale the size of the fonts, so the subtitles remain as large as they are now.

Go to http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/ for more info and to download the program.

Good luck
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All you have to do is put the subtitles on while the movie is playing with you're remote. You'll see subs for Han as well, but they aren't distracting and you can turn them off when the scene is over. This really shouldn't be an issue...
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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I ripped the subtitles, but they all were off about 0.4 seconds after the first one. For all who are making their own 16:9 subtitles via anamorphic upconvert, this may help save you some time. With the mods' indulgence I may cross-post this in a couple of relevant threads. You can use either of these. I'm using Haettenschweiler 20 pt to approximate the original subtitles fairly closely. Save either of these to a .txt file and import into DVD-Lab Pro.

Original timing
1
00:49:06,747 --> 00:49:09,272
Going somewhere, Solo?

2
00:49:14,788 --> 00:49:16,722
It's too late.

3
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:19,224
You should have paid him when you had the chance.

4
00:49:19,293 --> 00:49:22,751
Jabba's put a price on your head so large...

5
00:49:22,829 --> 00:49:25,798
every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you.

6
00:49:25,866 --> 00:49:27,891
I'm lucky I found you first.

7
00:49:30,237 --> 00:49:33,832
If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.

8
00:49:37,344 --> 00:49:39,835
Jabba's through with you.

9
00:49:39,913 --> 00:49:42,473
He has no time for smugglers...

10
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:45,245
who drop their shipments at the first sign of an imperial cruiser.

11
00:49:49,156 --> 00:49:53,286
You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.

12
00:49:55,662 --> 00:49:56,822
That's the idea.

13
00:49:56,897 --> 00:50:00,924
I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

re-worked timing
1
00:49:06,747 --> 00:49:09,272
Going somewhere, Solo?

2
00:49:14,388 --> 00:49:16,322
It's too late.

3
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:18,824
You should have paid him when you had the chance.

4
00:49:18,893 --> 00:49:22,351
Jabba's put a price on your head so large...

5
00:49:22,429 --> 00:49:25,398
every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you.

6
00:49:25,466 --> 00:49:27,491
I'm lucky I found you first.

7
00:49:29,837 --> 00:49:33,432
If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.

8
00:49:36,944 --> 00:49:39,435
Jabba's through with you.

9
00:49:39,513 --> 00:49:42,073
He has no time for smugglers...

10
00:49:42,149 --> 00:49:44,845
who drop their shipments at the first sign of an imperial cruiser.

11
00:49:48,756 --> 00:49:52,886
You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.

12
00:49:55,262 --> 00:49:56,422
That's the idea.

13
00:49:56,497 --> 00:50:00,524
I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.