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Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998) — Page 2
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Are you implying that at one point it wasn't?
Are you implying that at one point it wasn't?
Go-Mer.... that Rottentomatoes link is the most ignored link in the history of PT haters.... it's like looking at the sun.
-George Lucas
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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I'm not saying everyone hated the classic trilogy. I'm just saying it was criticised for the same things the prequels were.
It's not like all of a sudden people were saying Star Wars had lousy writing, acting, or relied too much on special effects when the SE's/Prequels came out.
To me it's interesting the way a lot of us overlooked the bad acting, horrible writing, and heavy special effects for the originals, but won't give a smiliar pass for the preqeuls/se.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't even pretend to understand how the Academy awards work. They have always struck me as pretty arbitrary for the most part.
I'm not saying everyone hated the classic trilogy. I'm just saying it was criticised for the same things the prequels were.
It's not like all of a sudden people were saying Star Wars had lousy writing, acting, or relied too much on special effects when the SE's/Prequels came out.
To me it's interesting the way a lot of us overlooked the bad acting, horrible writing, and heavy special effects for the originals, but won't give a smiliar pass for the preqeuls/se.
I don't even pretend to understand how the Academy awards work. They have always struck me as pretty arbitrary for the most part.
I'm not saying everyone hated the classic trilogy. I'm just saying it was criticised for the same things the prequels were.
It's not like all of a sudden people were saying Star Wars had lousy writing, acting, or relied too much on special effects when the SE's/Prequels came out.
To me it's interesting the way a lot of us overlooked the bad acting, horrible writing, and heavy special effects for the originals, but won't give a smiliar pass for the preqeuls/se.
Right on.
Somehow SFX that involve a computer are teh Suxxx, while SFX in the OT are overlooked completely.
-George Lucas
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I enjoyed the explosion of the EU starting with Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. Some of the EU was very good, even great at times, a lot of it was bad, but it was nice to have Star Wars around in some capacity. I bought the 1995 release, the 1997 release, and I was really psyched to hear that a new SW movie would be released in 1999.
Seven years later, the PT feels like EU material: some of it was good, even great at times, a lot of it was bad, but it was nice to have Star Wars back in some capacity. To me, anything beyond the OT is bonus: even if it falls on its face, I always have the OT to fall back on.
I don't want to keep the thread off-topic, but I'll just say this on the subject of the OT and PT being criticized for the same elements.
It's degrees.
There may be bad acting in the OT just as in the PT. But if there is a scale of bad acting, with a '1' being "sometimes the performances are inconsistent" and a '10' being "an Andy Sidaris film", the OT would occasionally go to 2. The PT spent a lot of time in 3 and would often get to 5.[
Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
The PT isn't all bad though. It does have the magic in parts, but overall they fail on many levels. That leads me to believe that Star Wars was never all Lucas. It was him, Kurtz, Kirschner, Kasdan, the actors, etc.
The PT isn't all bad though. It does have the magic in parts, but overall they fail on many levels. That leads me to believe that Star Wars was never all Lucas. It was him, Kurtz, Kirschner, Kasdan, the actors, etc.
Yeah, I was just watching "Empire of Dreams" and you can see the group effort that went into it. Lucas is a fine filmmaker, but like all good filmmakers, you need help in making a great movie. Without a group effort, you might as well never make it. There was no "group effort" on the PT. Lucas did almost everything, and then a handful of people went and made everything with CGI.
Now, this may be off topic, but I've also noticed that in Empire of Dreams, when you look at George Lucas on the set, he looks like the kind of guy who makes great films. But when you look at him in interviews from today, he looks like a big idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. Steve Speilberg has always looked like the kind of guy who makes great films. Nothing's changed. But what changed with George? I think I know the answer.
When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films. He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.
You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Darth_Evil: Yeah, I was just watching "Empire of Dreams" and you can see the group effort that went into it. Lucas is a fine filmmaker, but like all good filmmakers, you need help in making a great movie. Without a group effort, you might as well never make it. There was no "group effort" on the PT. Lucas did almost everything, and then a handful of people went and made everything with CGI. So because you saw one doccumentary about the classic trilogy, you assume Lucas made the prequels in a creative vacuum? Lucas has always surrounded himself with people who have their own artistic backbones. He tried to get some of the same people to help him polish up TPM's script. Lawrence Kasdan wouldn't do it, because he felt he would only "dillute" Lucas' vision. He tried to get Frank Darabont to help polish the script, but he wouldn't do it because it was a non-guild production. In the end he had some uncredited help from Carrie Fisher.
Darth_Evil: He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.
Just because you don't see the point to them doesn't neccesarily mean the -films- are lacking focus. I can see your insecurty regarding the SE/Prequels, but I really don't see Lucas'. He by all appearances seems to think they turned out as he wanted them to.Darth_Evil: Now, this may be off topic, but I've also noticed that in Empire of Dreams, when you look at George Lucas on the set, he looks like the kind of guy who makes great films. But when you look at him in interviews from today, he looks like a big idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. Steve Speilberg has always looked like the kind of guy who makes great films. Nothing's changed. But what changed with George? I think I know the answer. So Speilberg looked the the kind of guy who makes great movies while he was working on Hook? Or the Flintstones?Darth_Evil: When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films.
And it worked. Darth_Evil: He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series. 
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GoMer is here, that is where I will just check in to see any new news on the O-OT, but I won't be wasting my time posting, cause watch how relentless he is and the arguments will keep going round and round with the same stupid points back and forth.
This is such a great site, and when you start getting TFn PT/SE gushers posting on a site that wants to get the O-OT in as best quality as possible, then that is where i stop.
And a warning for anyone, Gomer's two favorite lines:
"This is the best the O-OT has ever looked on home video."
"We should be thanking George Lucas for giving an inch and releasing the O-OT, he didn't have to do that."
Have fun!
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Where's the problem?
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films. He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.
When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films. He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.
Interesting theory. If anything though, his actions have now only cemented his legacy that he can't accomplish anything new without milking Star Wars. Even then its just commerical success and not artistic success.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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Originally posted by: CO
GoMerTonic is signed up on this website? He must have been banned over at TFN. Just a warning guys, this guy will defend Lucas on EVERYTHING, so it aint even worth it to argue. I always like a good debate, but when someone just clearly takes one side like a politician does and will never budge on anything, then that is where I stop debating, cause it is pointless.
GoMer is here, that is where I will just check in to see any new news on the O-OT, but I won't be wasting my time posting, cause watch how relentless he is and the arguments will keep going round and round with the same stupid points back and forth.
This is such a great site, and when you start getting TFn PT/SE gushers posting on a site that wants to get the O-OT in as best quality as possible, then that is where i stop.
And a warning for anyone, Gomer's two favorite lines:
"This is the best the O-OT has ever looked on home video."
"We should be thanking George Lucas for giving an inch and releasing the O-OT, he didn't have to do that."
Have fun!
GoMerTonic is signed up on this website? He must have been banned over at TFN. Just a warning guys, this guy will defend Lucas on EVERYTHING, so it aint even worth it to argue. I always like a good debate, but when someone just clearly takes one side like a politician does and will never budge on anything, then that is where I stop debating, cause it is pointless.
GoMer is here, that is where I will just check in to see any new news on the O-OT, but I won't be wasting my time posting, cause watch how relentless he is and the arguments will keep going round and round with the same stupid points back and forth.
This is such a great site, and when you start getting TFn PT/SE gushers posting on a site that wants to get the O-OT in as best quality as possible, then that is where i stop.
And a warning for anyone, Gomer's two favorite lines:
"This is the best the O-OT has ever looked on home video."
"We should be thanking George Lucas for giving an inch and releasing the O-OT, he didn't have to do that."
Have fun!
Yes I can't believe he/she came here for whatever reason and signed up now, convieniently when the new dvds are out. Hide your kids folks, with go-mer whether it's jedi.net, tfn, or whatever, it's the same damn thing sucking on lucas all day. This guy's been doing this for years on other boards. Why sign up now, here of all places? Oh lord why... Whatever go-mer.
"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: JediRandy
The OT is looked at through the Rosiest of Rose-Tinted glasses.
They’re great flicks and I love ‘em to death… but people forget shit like Carrie Fisher going in and out of British accents during the same scene. If that stuff happened in the PT you wouldn’t hear the end of it.
Nevertheless, Hamill and Fisher are akin to Brando and Streep apparently.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I dislike it when people act like the OT is exempt from critique, when it was criticized for the same things as the prequels.
I dislike it when people act like the OT is exempt from critique, when it was criticized for the same things as the prequels.
The OT is looked at through the Rosiest of Rose-Tinted glasses.
They’re great flicks and I love ‘em to death… but people forget shit like Carrie Fisher going in and out of British accents during the same scene. If that stuff happened in the PT you wouldn’t hear the end of it.
Nevertheless, Hamill and Fisher are akin to Brando and Streep apparently.
rose tinted, of course that's why there are people on this very forum doing whatever they can to create their own versions of the special editions that clean, and fix up all the star wars films and add new stuff while maintaining the orignal film's integrity... well the OT anyway. The PT needs the most work to remove the crap and make things better, but it's extremely difficult to do with what resources are available, basically george's bad writing, and yoda looking fucked up.
"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Darth_Evil: Yeah, I was just watching "Empire of Dreams" and you can see the group effort that went into it. Lucas is a fine filmmaker, but like all good filmmakers, you need help in making a great movie. Without a group effort, you might as well never make it. There was no "group effort" on the PT. Lucas did almost everything, and then a handful of people went and made everything with CGI. So because you saw one doccumentary about the classic trilogy, you assume Lucas made the prequels in a creative vacuum? Lucas has always surrounded himself with people who have their own artistic backbones. He tried to get some of the same people to help him polish up TPM's script. Lawrence Kasdan wouldn't do it, because he felt he would only "dillute" Lucas' vision. He tried to get Frank Darabont to help polish the script, but he wouldn't do it because it was a non-guild production. In the end he had some uncredited help from Carrie Fisher.Darth_Evil: He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.
Just because you don't see the point to them doesn't neccesarily mean the -films- are lacking focus. I can see your insecurty regarding the SE/Prequels, but I really don't see Lucas'. He by all appearances seems to think they turned out as he wanted them to. Darth_Evil: Now, this may be off topic, but I've also noticed that in Empire of Dreams, when you look at George Lucas on the set, he looks like the kind of guy who makes great films. But when you look at him in interviews from today, he looks like a big idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. Steve Speilberg has always looked like the kind of guy who makes great films. Nothing's changed. But what changed with George? I think I know the answer. So Speilberg looked the the kind of guy who makes great movies while he was working on Hook? Or the Flintstones?Darth_Evil: When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films.
And it worked. Darth_Evil: He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series. Oh boy. Another fucking troll. They're appearing more and more now.
TextSo Speilberg looked the the kind of guy who makes great movies while he was working on Hook?
Hey, don't diss Hook. It was really good. And even if it wasn't in most people's eyes, I understand that Spielberg has made some bad movies. But his good movies far outweigh his bad, and he wouldn't be a good filmmaker if he didn't have some bad films. That humbles him. Makes him human.
And BTW, I know you're going to say "I'm not a troll, yadda blah yadda," but anyone who comes on these boards, and picks apart someones entire statement and tries to debunk it is a TEXTBOOK TROLL. There was one here a few months ago named Chrisdo who was probably the biggest troll I've ever seen, and you seem to be his offspring.
You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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I'm sorry not everyone hates Lucas as much as some of you do.
But not -that- sorry.
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You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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You certainly don't have to be sad for him. He loves the way the saga is turning out, and enough other people enjoy it enough that he will be filthy rich several lifetimes over.
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Lucas changed. Can you HONESTLY say that a charecter like Jar-Jar would have appeared in the OT? And Lucas making movies out of little more than CGI was not somethings he did in the eighties. I haven't changed. HE has.
You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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The only reason Lucas didn't use a ton of CG in the classic trilogy was because -IT DIDN'T EXIST BACK THEN-.
If it had, you damned well better believe he would have used it.
And if you would take a just a few seconds to look into things, you would find that the bulk of the prequels were made the old fashioned way, with old fashioned models shot with old fashioned motion control cameras.
There was more modelwork on TPM than there was on the entire classic trilogy combined.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
If you can find all the reviews from back then, I'll show you which ones were bad.
Did you look at the rotton tomatoes link?
I was just showing examples of reviews for the OT that sound suspiciously similar to the negative reviews you see for the PT.
Frankly, I'm not really all that interested in how many good vs. bad reviews there were for the OT (and I care even less how the OT vs. PT reviews stack up). All I know is that even in 1977 the original Star Wars was regarded as a cultural phenomenon, which in part led to it being nominated for an Academy Award for Best Picture, and to it being in the AFI's top ten greatest films of all time, right where it should be up there with Casablanca and The Wizard of OZ.
Whoever gave Star Wars a negative review back then, I'm sure wouldn't appreciate being reminded of it now.
Originally posted by: JediRandy
They’re great flicks and I love ‘em to death… but people forget shit like Carrie Fisher going in and out of British accents during the same scene. If that stuff happened in the PT you wouldn’t hear the end of it.
If you can find all the reviews from back then, I'll show you which ones were bad.
Did you look at the rotton tomatoes link?
I was just showing examples of reviews for the OT that sound suspiciously similar to the negative reviews you see for the PT.
Frankly, I'm not really all that interested in how many good vs. bad reviews there were for the OT (and I care even less how the OT vs. PT reviews stack up). All I know is that even in 1977 the original Star Wars was regarded as a cultural phenomenon, which in part led to it being nominated for an Academy Award for Best Picture, and to it being in the AFI's top ten greatest films of all time, right where it should be up there with Casablanca and The Wizard of OZ.
Whoever gave Star Wars a negative review back then, I'm sure wouldn't appreciate being reminded of it now.
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Didn't Siskel and Ebert originally give Star Wars a really bad review? Then, once it was breaking records, they gave ESB a glowing review. And I think today they say Star Wars was a wonderful movie.
I don't know what their original reviews were. I do know that they gave 2 thumbs up to ROTJ when it came out, because I watched it on TV in 1983. I recorded the program on audiotape, and I think it's still around somewhere.Didn't Siskel and Ebert originally give Star Wars a really bad review? Then, once it was breaking records, they gave ESB a glowing review. And I think today they say Star Wars was a wonderful movie.
Originally posted by: JediRandy
They’re great flicks and I love ‘em to death… but people forget shit like Carrie Fisher going in and out of British accents during the same scene. If that stuff happened in the PT you wouldn’t hear the end of it.
I seem to recall Natalie Portman's accent changing, depending upon the outfit she was wearing. Her performance in TPM makes Carrie's performance seem downright brilliant in comparison.
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Perhaps I should remind you of your comments in another 30 years?
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"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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