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Info Wanted: Anyone Planning on making Anamorphic versions using 2006 OUT DVDs? — Page 6

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ESHBG,
why are you so worried about looking at screenies?forget the damn screenshots and just make a set,it isnt all that hard,and they turned out fantastic,and i have to disagree with what was said in another thread,editdroid set is NOT better than these,somebody is definitelt drinking Drano,sure these are not perfect,but NOONE here can make a perfect set,the ONLY person that can give us Perfection is GL,but these will do untill the next round of "OFFICIAL" releases.
I really want to see what the X0 can do myself,this has been hyped so much,thread after thread, that,DAMN, it should be way better than these,hopefully some day we will ALL see,I have said this before and I will say it again,this is only MY opinion,I think this set is better than ANY LD Capture release to date,now I said "LD".
end rant
DJ
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Originally posted by: dark_jedi
ESHBG,
why are you so worried about looking at screenies?forget the damn screenshots and just make a set,it isnt all that hard,and they turned out fantastic,

dark_jedi, if you would've read the numerous threads in the General section you will quickly find out that I did NOT buy the DVDs. It will be a little hard for me to "just make a set" when I don't have those to start with.

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Hi all,

I'm new around here, but did a lot of reading.

I was successful at making an anamorphic version of the new OUT using DVD Rebuilder trial version. Looks decent, except for the above mentioned weird interlacing artifacts.

My problem is that I want to back these discs up using DVD+DL discs to take full advatange of the 7+GB size of the movies. When I did the re-encode with DVD Rebuilder, it shrunk everything down to fit on a standard 4.4GB DVD+R blank. Can someone tell me how I can back up with no compression ( and still keep my 4:3LB to 16x9 anamorphic conversion)?
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You will still have to re encode the movies. I tried without, but the letterboxing stayed, so figure might as well re encode.
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Not sure if it's in the free version or not:

The Pro version has "Dual Layer Target Size" in the 'Settings' menu.

Yes you still have to re-encode if you're trying to convert to anamorphic.
If your target size is DVD-9, DVDrb may not turn on the encoder because it feels there is enough space.
If that's the case then you have to go to the 'Mode' menu and select "Force Reencoding (For Filters)".

Dr. M

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Yeah, I only have the trial version.... I don't see a "settings" option to designate DVD-9 target size. What drop down menu would it be under?

Also, have we found any tools or plugins to take care of those funky diagonal line artifacts?
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SamS, I am no expert but I doubt the option Doctor M. is referring to is found in the free version. I say this because I quickly found out that the free version is a very stripped down version and most of the features I would like and need, I would need to get Pro for.

EDIT: And a question for those that made these anamorphic already: where do the subtitles appear now? I know people who have the DVDs and use the Zoom are complaining about them being cut off. Does this anamorphic transfer put them into the picture now somehow?
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Originally posted by: ESHBG
SamS, I am no expert but I doubt the option Doctor M. is referring to is found in the free version. I say this because I quickly found out that the free version is a very stripped down version and most of the features I would like and need, I would need to get Pro for.

EDIT: And a question for those that made these anamorphic already: where do the subtitles appear now? I know people who have the DVDs and use the Zoom are complaining about them being cut off. Does this anamorphic transfer put them into the picture now somehow?


Good info, ESHBG. It looks like I should invest in the Pro version.

To answer your question, the subtitles are properly placed in the newly anamorphic version. They are player-generated forced subtitles, and DVDrb does fine with them. The Han/Greedo scene looks great, with no cropped/missing subtitles
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Originally posted by: SamS
Originally posted by: ESHBG
SamS, I am no expert but I doubt the option Doctor M. is referring to is found in the free version. I say this because I quickly found out that the free version is a very stripped down version and most of the features I would like and need, I would need to get Pro for.

EDIT: And a question for those that made these anamorphic already: where do the subtitles appear now? I know people who have the DVDs and use the Zoom are complaining about them being cut off. Does this anamorphic transfer put them into the picture now somehow?


Good info, ESHBG. It looks like I should invest in the Pro version.

To answer your question, the subtitles are properly placed in the newly anamorphic version. They are player-generated forced subtitles, and DVDrb does fine with them. The Han/Greedo scene looks great, with no cropped/missing subtitles

Thanks a lot for the info, SamS! I am *kind of* regretting not getting these discs now, because I would've liked to have created anamorphic versions of them. I've never done this before but it really seems like a great first project to tackle. But as you can see in this thread, I just couldn't bring myself to buy these and support Luca$ for this sub-par release...
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Originally posted by: ESHBGThanks a lot for the info, SamS! I am *kind of* regretting not getting these discs now, because I would've liked to have created anamorphic versions of them. I've never done this before but it really seems like a great first project to tackle. But as you can see in this thread, I just couldn't bring myself to buy these and support Luca$ for this sub-par release...



Trust me I have lots of the same feelings

Encoding them as anamorphic makes a substantial improvement on my CRT RPTV. The transfers have decent color and contrast, with no edge enhancement. So, with a bit of effort, I've got a pretty nice version of the OUT, even though I needed a bit of help from GL. Now, if I could only figure out how to tackle these interlacing artifacts....
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I just finished running ESB through dvd rebuilder pro using CCE 2.70 3-pass with the target as dvd-9 anamorphic and an Undot() filter as described in the previously linked tutorial. I'm pretty happy with the results.

[url=http://www.imagedumpster.com/]http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/58df4b8f3f.jpg[/url]

[url=http://www.imagedumpster.com/]http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/761d20c337.jpg[/url]

[url=http://www.imagedumpster.com/]http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/8801c9c04e.jpg[/url]

[url=http://www.imagedumpster.com/]http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/88f6ecca8f.jpg[/url]

[url=http://www.imagedumpster.com/]http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/bfb0a31294.jpg[/url]
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Interlacing artifacts, hmmm.
GreedyHMA might allow you to do it if you can bypass it's attempts to do a pulldown, there is a vertical filter in it. Not all that familiar with it's ins and outs.

TomsMoComp might be worth a try too. http://home.comcast.net/~trbarry/downloads
Although it's for doing a pulldown as well, set it to: TomsMoComp(-1,-1,1)

These settings should cause the vertical size to double (instead of doing a pulldown) and perform slight vertical filtering to remove remnant artifacts. Afterwards you'll need to resize it to cut the vertical resolution in half again.
Sharpening is up to you.

Anyway, if you want to google around, you are looking for a "Verical Filter". It's what is commonly used to remove interlace artifacts.

Edit: If you aren't familiar, undot() removes small single frame dots (spatial filtering). Deen() (among others out there) is a temporal filter commonly used to remove heavy film grain. They are frequently used together, though I find undot to cause more troubles than deen.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: live4ten
I just finished running ESB through dvd rebuilder pro using CCE 2.70 3-pass with the target as dvd-9 anamorphic and an Undot() filter as described in the previously linked tutorial. I'm pretty happy with the results.




Looks good! Were you able to get rid of the interlaced artifacting in EpIV?

DoctorM, GreedyHMA could possibly be the right track, but after reading it more, I'm still unclear on how to use it. Couldn't get anywhere looking into TomsMoComp.

I suppose my lack of understanding on what is causing the occasional artifacts, coupled with my unfamiliarity with these plugins is causing me stress. I'm all ears and ready to learn and experiment with any suggestions you guys have. Thanks.
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Wow, looks great, live4ten! Did you use the NTSC or PAL discs for that?
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I'm wondering what is there to gain by converting from letterbox to anamorphic. It won't magically recover any detail at all, and scaling always results in lost detail. You also need to re-encode, which reduces the quality even more, especially if you're not burning it on a dual-layer disc. To me there seems to be too many downsides.

If you're looking to avoid internal scaling by your television, consider this first. If you own a high-resolution (1366x768 for example) flat planel, it will scale the signal anyway. You could use a high-end dvd player that sends the television its native signal, but then the dvd player would do the scaling (in real-time of course, negating any benefits of high-quality off-line scaling). If you own a standard-definition tube television, it won't scale the signal at all. All it does in letterbox mode is widen the distance between the scanlines. No "crappy integrated scaling chips" involved. The only reason to convert to anamorphic would be if the scanlines become too visible on a widescreen CRT television when using letterbox mode.
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Originally posted by: ripa The only reason to convert to anamorphic would be if the scanlines become too visible on a widescreen CRT television when using letterbox mode.



Bingo. I have a 55" rear projection CRT TV. My set has to do it's "zoom" function optically. While not terrible, it certainly does not look good, and artifacts are obvious to me. By converting to anamorphic (DVD-9), I save myself the steps of expanding the picture, and the improvements are worth it based on my successes so far.

If I could only get rid of the interlacing artifacts, I'd be one happy camper. These errors must be hard encoded into the frames. I use a Denon DVD-3910 DVD player, which I've never been able to trip up before due to the internal Faroudja processing.
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My need for an anamorphic version is linked to my progressive-scan DVD-player and my 16:9 TV. When in PS-mode, my TV doesn't allow for any zooming on the picture, which means the letterbox image (including the black bars) is stretched to 16:9, resulting in a horizontally stretched image, without the black bars (or the major portion of them) being cropped off. So, I am still trying to decently denoise the image, since I don't want to upscale all the grain (be it fake or not).
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Internal or on the fly upconversion is a weaker algorithm than a good PC pre-rendered method.
This is one of the reasons Citizen's trasnfer works well in HD.

Additionally, Lanczos being more than just line doubling actually finds edges, giving a slight sharpening and providing a very nice picture.

LanczosResize is an alternative to BicubicResize with high values of c about 0.6 ... 0.75 which produces quite strong sharpening. It usually offers better quality (fewer artifacts) and a sharp image.
Lanczos was created for AviSynth because it retained so much detail, more so even than BicubicResize(x,y,0,0.75). As you might know, the more detail a frame has, the more diffiult it is to compress it. This means that Lanczos is NOT suited for low bitrate video, the various Bicubic flavours are much better for this. If however you have enough bitrate then using Lanczos will give you a better picture, but in general I do not recommend using it for 1 CD rips because the bitrate is usually too low (there are exceptions of course).

Lanczos4Resize is closely related to LanczosResize (correct name: Lanczos3Resize). The latter uses 2*3=6 lobes and the former 2*4=8 lobes to do the resizing. The result is that Lanczos4Resize produces sharper images. Especially usefull when upsizing a clip.


As far as the artifacts, yeah, GreedyHMA is a bit complex, you'd just have to read through and do some trial and error. As far as TomsMoComp try this line:
TomsMoComp(-1,-1,1).Lanczos4Resize(720,480)

It will double the vertical resolution, filter the vertical lines and then resize it back down to DVD resolution.
I can't swear it'll work, but it'd be worth a try.

And to denoise I would give Deen().Undot() a try or just Deen() by itself. Temporal filters MIGHT cause ghosting, but at this point a little bit more should be hard to see.

Dr. M

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Doctor M, from what I understand, TomsMoComp is only for video-based material. Also from what I read GreedyHMA has been surpassed in functionality/features by decomb.dll, which I do use in conjuntion with DVDrb Pro.
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Originally posted by: SamS
Doctor M, from what I understand, TomsMoComp is only for video-based material.


The sad thing is, the new DVDs ARE based on video material.

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Originally posted by: Laserschwert
Originally posted by: SamS
Doctor M, from what I understand, TomsMoComp is only for video-based material.


The sad thing is, the new DVDs ARE based on video material.


How do you figure? Obviously they were shot on 24fps 35mm film, and any decent de-interlacer will recognize the flag sequence and properly reconstruct the 2:3 pulldown sequence to produce 60 field per second video (NTSC). A video based DVD would be something like a concert video shot with a 60 frames per second interlaced video camera.

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Originally posted by: SamS
Originally posted by: Laserschwert
Originally posted by: SamS
Doctor M, from what I understand, TomsMoComp is only for video-based material.


The sad thing is, the new DVDs ARE based on video material.


How do you figure? Obviously they were shot on 24fps 35mm film, and any decent de-interlacer will recognize the flag sequence and properly reconstruct the 2:3 pulldown sequence to produce 60 field per second video (NTSC). A video based DVD would be something like a concert video shot with a 60 frames per second interlaced video camera.


I was talking about the DVD transfer being video-based, since the source for it was the D1-tape that were used for the laserdiscs. Obviously the pulldown wasn't realized as decent as it'd be possible, otherwise you wouldn't have the problem of deinterlacing-artifacts (which are obviously visible in certain scenes). And since some of these "stairsteps" are already visible on the Laserdiscs (I remember this problem being discussed in Zion's old transfer thread), they did already mess up when creating the D1-tape(s).

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Exactly Laserschwert that's why I was talking about TomsMoComp. Not for the purpose of reversing a telecing, but because it contains a (verical) filter for cleaning up artifacts leftover from a bad IVTC, which is what we are dealing with.

Dr. M

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Even though they came from a D1 master, its still should be encoded @ 24 fps. Regardless, I suppose we're just picking nits here.... there's something obviously wrong with the encoding and we both recognize that. Any ideas on how to fix?
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I tried TomsMoComp and it does fix the stairsteps partially. I'm not sure if it also kills some detail though.

Another (and muuuuch slower) filter for vertical interpolation is Sangnom, which removes the jaggies almost completely, but causes some artifacts in detail areas.

Unfortunately I am only working with the PAL version, which is already upscaled. If I'd have access to some (jaggy) clips from the NTSC version, I could check if there's a way to somehow recover those fields.