Well Arnie, we're not really debating whether film stock has grain - it all does, and certainly you can tell generational differences between stocks from the 70's 80's and 90's. This was really a focused discussion centering around a tremendous amount of grain visible in the OUT DVD's. Some people feel it's natural, while I believe that at least some of it has been increased, deliberately, for any of a million reasons. In the end, it's a difficult case to prove to non-pros, I think. My discussions with fellow post guys has been a lot of, "yep, looks like it to me." But every one of us does grain matching for a living. On the other side, there really are a bunch of totally "non-conspiracy" reasons why it could be grainier, even without enhancement. Which led me to a secondary point, which was, "how bad does it suck that my pre-93 LD transfer looks better than yesterdays DVD?" Somewhat fortunately, nobody wants to jump in on that sinking ship of subjectivity, and for that I'm grateful. But in the end, the opening crawl has been re-created and presented as authentic. My feeling is that if they'll lie about that, why not lie about something else? Especially in light of what I certainly regard as decent evidence.