Originally posted by: theredbaron
And here I was thinking it was a joke about a DC exec called Bob Shreck, just like Jeph Loeb named a corrupt police official after himself in The Long Halloween!
I've always thought that Batman Returns was a brilliant movie, for many of the reasons listed above. I don't think I've ever been able to articulate it in so much detail, so thanks for posting it. In fact, I think it tipped the balance for me as to what my favourite Bat-film is. Previously it was:
1. Batman
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman Begins
But now I think I'm going to have to switch the first two...again. My two favourite scenes: Catwoman's "birth" scene and Penguin's "funeral" scene.
This is something I wrote about BR about a year and a half ago:
I digress from my novel-writing (perhaps permanently) to discuss something which I feel is very important: the genius of Tim Burton in telling the Batman story. While I'm sure that anyone with half a brain could point out that the camp and parody of the last two Batman films were what made them so sub-standard, I am yet to see anyone appreciate the depth of what Burton has achieved in the original and Batman Returns.
So let me spell it out to you. Batman and his antagonists are one in the same. Why else would he find these villains so disarming? They have all been dealt bad cards in life, and in the case of Batman and Penguin in particular, they have both lost their families. The only difference is that they respond to their troubled pasts in different ways. In the case of villains like Penguin, they respond by taking revenge on the society that created them. Batman's "revenge" is in preventing scenarios like his from ever happening again - keeping society free from the kinds of scum that killed his parents. When they put their masks on (whether that be literal or not) they enact a kind of mania whereby the person becomes their ultimate or extreme version of self. Batman is the culmination of everything that Bruce Wayne can be - resourceful, inventive and strong. Catwoman was everything that Selena Kyle wanted to be but did not have the guts to be - assertive, strong, powerful and sexy. They all have a kind of split personality whereby their alter-egos do everything that they alone wouldn't have the strength to do. Bruce Wayne, Jack, Oswald Cobblepot, Selena Kyle: all of their masks were forged in grief to respond to the world which grieved them. Like schizophrenics that become their hallucinations to solve their problems (think of how Morton Rainey becomes Shooter in 'Secret Window'). That is not to say that they don't try to cope within their normal human means - Oswald tries to find acceptance in society, but it rejected him just as his parents did at birth; Bruce and Selena try to find love without revealing their dark sides - only to find that their relationship with society and other people is dysfunctional, and that their dark sides are an integral part of who they are. It is for this reason that I feel (and I believe the audience is supposed to feel) such an overwhelming sense of pity when Penguin dies - it was society's fault that his life was wasted, because society created the monster that he was.
On an aside, it is awesome to watch Selena Kyle transform into Catwoman. She ransacks her own apartment (and anyone who's anyone knows that the state of someone's room is the state of their mind), spraypainting her clothes and her doll house, shreds her soft toys in the insinkerator (a symbol of her loss of innocence), and knocks the 'O' and 'T' out of the neon sign in her bedroom (which used to spell out 'HELLO THERE'). The catwoman silhouette stands in the doorway, 'HELL HERE' sign illuminated behind her.
And here I was thinking it was a joke about a DC exec called Bob Shreck, just like Jeph Loeb named a corrupt police official after himself in The Long Halloween!
I've always thought that Batman Returns was a brilliant movie, for many of the reasons listed above. I don't think I've ever been able to articulate it in so much detail, so thanks for posting it. In fact, I think it tipped the balance for me as to what my favourite Bat-film is. Previously it was:
1. Batman
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman Begins
But now I think I'm going to have to switch the first two...again. My two favourite scenes: Catwoman's "birth" scene and Penguin's "funeral" scene.
This is something I wrote about BR about a year and a half ago:
I digress from my novel-writing (perhaps permanently) to discuss something which I feel is very important: the genius of Tim Burton in telling the Batman story. While I'm sure that anyone with half a brain could point out that the camp and parody of the last two Batman films were what made them so sub-standard, I am yet to see anyone appreciate the depth of what Burton has achieved in the original and Batman Returns.
So let me spell it out to you. Batman and his antagonists are one in the same. Why else would he find these villains so disarming? They have all been dealt bad cards in life, and in the case of Batman and Penguin in particular, they have both lost their families. The only difference is that they respond to their troubled pasts in different ways. In the case of villains like Penguin, they respond by taking revenge on the society that created them. Batman's "revenge" is in preventing scenarios like his from ever happening again - keeping society free from the kinds of scum that killed his parents. When they put their masks on (whether that be literal or not) they enact a kind of mania whereby the person becomes their ultimate or extreme version of self. Batman is the culmination of everything that Bruce Wayne can be - resourceful, inventive and strong. Catwoman was everything that Selena Kyle wanted to be but did not have the guts to be - assertive, strong, powerful and sexy. They all have a kind of split personality whereby their alter-egos do everything that they alone wouldn't have the strength to do. Bruce Wayne, Jack, Oswald Cobblepot, Selena Kyle: all of their masks were forged in grief to respond to the world which grieved them. Like schizophrenics that become their hallucinations to solve their problems (think of how Morton Rainey becomes Shooter in 'Secret Window'). That is not to say that they don't try to cope within their normal human means - Oswald tries to find acceptance in society, but it rejected him just as his parents did at birth; Bruce and Selena try to find love without revealing their dark sides - only to find that their relationship with society and other people is dysfunctional, and that their dark sides are an integral part of who they are. It is for this reason that I feel (and I believe the audience is supposed to feel) such an overwhelming sense of pity when Penguin dies - it was society's fault that his life was wasted, because society created the monster that he was.
On an aside, it is awesome to watch Selena Kyle transform into Catwoman. She ransacks her own apartment (and anyone who's anyone knows that the state of someone's room is the state of their mind), spraypainting her clothes and her doll house, shreds her soft toys in the insinkerator (a symbol of her loss of innocence), and knocks the 'O' and 'T' out of the neon sign in her bedroom (which used to spell out 'HELLO THERE'). The catwoman silhouette stands in the doorway, 'HELL HERE' sign illuminated behind her.
Can we get some more comments?