The problem here being that it was sent to the publisher Faber & Faber as "fan mail" rather than to Richard himself .... as certain people who knew Richard were uneasy about giving it to him directly. That was all I could do. Didn't work.
Still, I got my answer from Richard ... I guess.
Here's a speed run on the Roger Rabbit NES game. Wow, this game actually did suck, didn't it ....
Originally posted by: Esn Great news about the poster, macronencer! Will the scan be available anywhere for the rest of us to see/download (a lower resolution one, perhaps)?
I've had a better look at the scans now at home, and although the resolution is great there are some Moire patterns on the larger areas of colour, as he didn't use descreening on his scanner. Not sure how much of a problem that is - can it be fixed in software? I've had a go with Paint Shop Pro, but couldn't improve it much. Thankfully it doesn't really show up on the title, so if ocpmovie needs to use that for anything he'll have a great version here (I'm making your copy as I write this ocp!).
As for putting it online, I will try to arrange something soon.
A couple days ago, I saw Who Framed Roger Rabbit on the big screen. Naturally, it was absolutely awesome. It was a brand new print, with only minimal problems, and without the (minimal) censorship on the DVD version.
The part with Roger getting flushed down the toilet really reminds me of the similar scene from The Thief and the Cobbler; the animation isn't exactly the same, but both Roger and the Thief do that great stretch effect when they actually get sucked down.
Is it just me, or is one of the caricatures in the Brown Derby photo in Roger's wallet that of Richard Williams?
I still marvel at how Richard Williams nailed Droopy. The Droopy part got laughs and applause from the audience.
When Richard Williams' name appeared on screen, I cheered.
It looks like all my Star Wars Classic Edition torrents have been pulled from Myspleen ... presumably due to the crappy "official release." I wonder if the Thief was at Myspleen they'd pull it because Arabian Knight is being rereleased, as if it's the same thing.
Can someone get the Classic Edition DVDs up at Demonoid?
Someone just removed the Sean Connery (Tack) and Ed. E. Carrol (Thief) voice credits from the wikipedia article. Here's the edit (clicky).
I'm wondering - does anybody have any proof that they were indeed there? I know that Tack has that one line in the end, but how do you know that it is Sean Connery? And I don't remember the thief speaking at all in the Recobbled Cut, so I'm confused about how he could have a voice... unless it was that laugh that he made after his hands weren't cut off... For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
The people who edit Wikipedia articles have a special circle in hell reserved for them.
Sean Connery has always been credited as Tack in official literature, as early as the 60s I believe.
Animator Andreas Wessel-Therhorn floated the idea that maybe Connery was never actually recorded, but that the voice was just intended to be Connery upon completion.
I can't be sure either way, but I like to believe that Connery recorded his one line very early on.
Ed E. Carroll is credited as The Thief in Fred Calvert's version, in which some annoying gasping and yelping from The Thief is clearly audible. Someone pointed out that similar vocal effects are in the workprint, but much softer in the mix. I was convinced, with some prodding, to include Carroll in the credits for the workprint version.
I'm not sure about his actual presence in the workprint, as Thief vocals could have been done by anyone at any time.
I will say that due to the Recobbled Cut mixing different audio sources, you do hear Carroll there.
Speaking of who recorded what, we may finally have a concrete year for when Vincent Price first recorded dialogue for Zig-Zag. (I say "first recorded" because, like Anthony Quayle, he probably came back to record more dialogue later.)
In The Psychotronic Video Guide to Film, there's a little mini-bio on Vincent Price. This text is contained within:
"Some credits not reviewed here are:...The Thief and the Cobbler (1974), voice for a British animated feature..."
1974 seems perfect. Nasruddin had been scrapped by then, and Anwar had evolved into Zig-Zag, or something closer to Zig-Zag, by then. (Was Zig-Zag still called Anwar when Price began performing the voice?) To me, the Zig-Zag-like concept artwork of Anwar looks to have come before Price's involvement, probably 1972; the design, though obviously familiar, lacks the flamboyance of Zig-Zag as voiced by Price. Williams certainly put a lot of Price's performance into his animation of Zig-Zag, so I would assume that the Zig-Zag-like Anwar image is from before Price's voice worked its way into Zig-Zag's design.
Though I'm still confused: If the last Anwar design looked like Zig-Zag, and he already looked that close to the final version prior to Price's involvement, what in Pete Sampras is that rat-faced, buck-toothed thing in Art Babbitt's extant footage in the workprint? It seems to have been animated to Price's dialogue, because the mouth movements seem to sync up.
Perhaps I've got the timeline all wrong, and that Anwar design was done AFTER Price had come on board. Meaning that Price DEFINITELY would have come in to do new dialogue later, in particular anything where "Zig-Zag" or "Phido" is uttered.
In the 1972 documentaries, Richard refers to Vincent Price playing Anwar. And he was still called Anwar at that point. By 1972, Anwar had already been redesigned to look more like Price ... he would get further redesigns later, his design finally being nailed down in the "cards" shot.
I'm not sure about Art Babbit's work on the character, which seems out of place in any era. That could just be due to Babbit's style rather than anything else.
Originally posted by: TServo2049 Did either Price or Quayle record new material during the 1989-92 period?
Quayle died in 1989 and Richard Williams mentions he had the dialogue he needed by 1988 (as seen in I Drew Roger Rabbit). I do wonder if Price re-recorded material much later in order for prime fidelity. Given that Williams spared no expense on the animation itself, it wouldn't surprise me if he made sure voices were recorded in the best quality possible. The Price dialogue in the released version along with Quayle's "vocal cameo" and the other intact voices sound great. "I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!" "Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
Woohoo, I got my DVDs! First of all I must say that the commentary track is fabulous. I usually don't like commentaries much, but this one was exceptional. It's hard to imagine that any official release could do much better. Your insights were really interesting, especially the info into who animated what and where. Since I'd only seen the Youtube version before I was surprised at many of the new music choices - a lot of them worked really well.
I also got a chance to see the Williams workprint for the first time, as well as part of the Fred Calvert workprint (oh my God! The calamity!) and... well, I'm sure you've heard this one before, but just a comment:
The Calvert version has that subplot with the nanny dissaproving of the princess's attraction to Tack, while in the Williams workprint she seems to genuinely like him. There's one scene in particular, right after Nanny says "your bath is ready, my dear", where the Recobbled Cut follows the Calvert story and character interpretation more closely. We see Nanny get very angry, and Yum Yum blush for what must be the 20th time before she gets pushed away by Nanny. In Williams' version Nanny does not get angry and Yum Yum waves Tack a little goodbye before leaving of her own accord. Yes, I know that you used Calvert animation where you could, and I don't disagree with the sentiment but the entire scene lasts only a few short seconds and yet keeping the Calvert footage in those few short seconds is enough to completely change Nanny's personality for the worse, as well as make Princess Yum Yum appear to be less independent.
Sorry about that - I don't really have any right to mention what I think you did wrong when there are SO many more things that you did right with this restoration, but now that I've seen the Williams workprint I feel quite strongly that his cut should've been used - even though it's storyboards, a few seconds of them can't hurt when the alternative is to screw up a character (also, the scene flows better with the Williams cut, since there's less repetition - how many times can Yum Yum blush?). Just in case you ever do make a Mk. III, I think you should consider it.
I haven't looked at most of the stuff on the DVDs yet... I'll get around to it, it's quite a lot! One thing that intrigued me was an image of a DVD cover for the Recobbled Cut that used the Cannes brochure painting on the front and had all sorts of intricate designs, as well as the "Once..." logo on the back. I've never seen that one online anywhere - is that the case that you sent to Richard Williams? For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
Yeah, I purposely decided to use Calvert's characterization of Nanny there. A questionable decision on my part, and one that's been questioned before. Let me explain.
Of course, it's easier to use Calvert footage since that footage has been animated. I felt that this was a little joke that made the scene more interesting .... I wasn't suggesting that Nanny hates Tack, but that she was getting impatient with all this romantic goings on - "Just get in the bath" .... I thought it was amusing, and it had finished animation.
But another major reason I used this take on the scene was that - if you check the Calvert work in progress reel - the shot of Nanny tapping her foot appears as a pencil test, and there is some evidence that it was actually a Williams shot, that Dick had added this bit of comic business to the scene. The Calvert WIP suggests that Dick's version had been revised, and could actually have played out similarly to how I present it in the Recobbled Cut. Then again, that could be a VERY rare example of a Calvert pencil test in the WIP - but there's only about 2 examples of that.
Either way I thought the bit was harmless and didn't alter the Nurse's character completely.
The "Cannes" cover was by a fellow named Omar - mori [at] itn.is - He's a writer and actor in Iceland and a very talented cover designer.
Some covers: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v113/swarez/3Dpreviews/
It's my favorite cover for The Thief that's been done besides my own. I actually wanted to do a "Cannes" type cover for the film, having that "Book" look to it, but never did. Omar's version is similar to what I might have done, except that I don't actually like the art on the Cannes poster .... which is why I drew my own cover in the first place. Omar also didn't use the common Thief logo, feeling the version in existence was too low quality. (This was before macronencer's version of it turned up!)
I only have the tiny preview versions of that cover - I never got a big version, probably because I still considered my version the definitive cover.
I've emailed Omar and asked him for a copy of it - also letting him know about macronencer's logo scan.
Come to think of it, there's another fellow I need to write who had a scan of the logo with the Thief coming out of the O that I never got ....
Here's his effort at a cover for The Thief - Mr. Mark Smith.
Not the best cover, but the artwork and text on it is very rare, all from pressbooks for The Thief and the Cobbler and The Thief Who Never Gave Up. This is the only scan I've ever seen of the Thief coming out of the O logo. I need a better copy of these pressbooks!
The thing is, you can TELL immediately that it's Calvert's characters... it's jarring. Instead of looking "mildly annoyed but smiling" (which is the emotion that you would expect of Nanny if she actually liked Tack), she all of a sudden looks extremely angry, whereas just a second before she had said in a very pleasant voice, "your bath is ready my dear". Why does she suddenly become so angry?
That's what I meant when I said that the scene flows better with the Williams cut - it's more believable. Nanny tapping her foot and getting impatient with the princess has the potential to be funny, but because there's no buildup to the joke it just ends up not making sense (it's the equivalent of those early silent Keystone comedies where kicking somebody in the butt WAS the joke... it took Charlie Chaplin to realize that it's funnier if the person DESERVES to be kicked, and that maxim is still as true today as it ever was).
Omar's DVD cover is very well-done... I wonder if he could add the "Thief and the Cobbler" logo with the thief coming out of the "O" to it (that version on the second DVD cover seems pretty high-resolution to me...). Although it's true that the Cannes art doesn't quite represent the film correctly, it still looks quite good on its own merits and would arouse the interest of someone looking at it, I think. Maybe I just like the "aged book look" of the DVD cover... I'll have email him eventually to ask for a high-res image.
By the way, has anybody found any reviews of the new Arabian Knight DVD online? For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
I contacted the reviewer on Home Theater Forum that reviews Disney and Weinstein releases (David Boulet) and he said he'll tell me when he gets a screener. All sites list the November date now.
So he has a better context for the film, I'll send him copies of the workprint (which I'm going to clean up in Final Cut Pro at my college's video lab), the Princess VHS rip, and the Recobbled Cut. "I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!" "Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
Whoah... there's a really interesting redo of that flyover scene on the Cobbler Scrapbook DVD. The one that's interrupted by march of the one eyes footage in the Calvert cut. For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
Is Ogg the guy from 3 posts back?... well, I might like that version a bit better but the Calvert cut isn't too bad either (even though it does ruin the suspense somewhat). What's really interesting about it is that it shows how badly the Calvert team coloured those excellent pencils. As soon as it switches to the pencil outlines, it's suddenly a lot more impressive, whereas the Calvert-coloured stuff looks rather cheap. What about that music at the beginning when Zigzag speaks? It's not in the Recobbled Cut... is it really by Robert Folk? It just seems odd because it sounds like it ties into the menacing fly-over music.
Do you think Ogg would mind if I put that avi file up on Youtube (giving him credit of course)? It deserves to be out there, I think. For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
