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Star Trek gets better treatment than Star Wars...

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It turns out that CBS Video, as part of their high-definition remastering of The Original Series, IS giving a lot of the special effects shots a new CG face-lift! Specifically, they're re-doing all of the spaceship shots. This to me is a very exciting idea... in principle. As anyone who saw the Mirror Universe episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise will tell you, the old TOS ships look awfully damn good in new CG. The replicated TOS sets, the original ship designs... rather than looking dated, they actually hold up VERY well by today's standards. Re-doing the effects will give new life to The Original Series and could help it appeal to a new, younger generation of fans. Unlike, say... the Star Wars films... the original versions of these episodes will always be preserved in GREAT remastered quality on DVD. And it would be extremely cool if CBS would release BOTH versions of the episodes on HD-DVD/Blu-ray, such that you can choose which version you wish to watch... the original or the new enhanced version.


There you have it....the original Star Trek series is going to get an SFX overhaul AND the original versions WILL be preserved for all ages on HD.

This is kinda funny when you consider that the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry, has been dead for 15 years and his creation is still being treated with some dignity. Lucas is alive and well and he won't treat with respect, the creation that made him what he is today.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Check out this story at The Digital Bits...

Linky

It turns out that CBS Video, as part of their high-definition remastering of The Original Series, IS giving a lot of the special effects shots a new CG face-lift! Specifically, they're re-doing all of the spaceship shots. This to me is a very exciting idea... in principle. As anyone who saw the Mirror Universe episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise will tell you, the old TOS ships look awfully damn good in new CG. The replicated TOS sets, the original ship designs... rather than looking dated, they actually hold up VERY well by today's standards. Re-doing the effects will give new life to The Original Series and could help it appeal to a new, younger generation of fans. Unlike, say... the Star Wars films... the original versions of these episodes will always be preserved in GREAT remastered quality on DVD. And it would be extremely cool if CBS would release BOTH versions of the episodes on HD-DVD/Blu-ray, such that you can choose which version you wish to watch... the original or the new enhanced version.


There you have it....the original Star Trek series is going to get an SFX overhaul AND the original versions WILL be preserved for all ages on HD.

This is kinda funny when you consider that the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry, has been dead for 15 years and his creation is still being treated with some dignity.


You know, I could talk about the sheer idiocy of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, or how the latter ST series have radically changed in tone from the original series, but I'll just say "apples and oranges".
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1

There you have it....the original Star Trek series is going to get an SFX overhaul AND the original versions WILL be preserved for all ages on HD.


That's not what it says. It says the new VFX will be on HD, and the old ones will be preserved on DVD. (And, by implication, through the samizdat network of OOP media traders.)
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Ooops.....sorry about that. I meant to distinguish the two. Yeah, the series in its original form will be preserved on DVD while the changes will be on HD. Either way, you have a choice and both will be available for the ages in fine form.......unlike Star Wars.
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You know, I could talk about the sheer idiocy of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, or how the latter ST series have radically changed in tone from the original series, but I'll just say "apples and oranges".


Please dude...dont' turn the thread into a knockfest on the quality of Trek in its various forms. The post was about the fact that original Trek is getting the SE treatment, but the original versions are available. While with Star Wars, we just have the "enhanced" version and that's it. We're finally getting the OOT, but in less than stellar quality.

I'll wager that these SEs of original Trek will probably look pretty good and won't have any added scenes that change the feel of the show or alter the audience's perception of any of the characters. They'll do to Trek what Lucas should have done to SW...simply clean up some SFX, change others and improve them by updating them and making both versions available, not ripping the hell out of them and not making the originals available.

I just find it funny how both are getting "updated" while the originals of one are getting treated well and the other is getting treated like shit. Even funnier is that the one getting treated like shit has its creator alive while the other is dead.

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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Ooops.....sorry about that. I meant to distinguish the two. Yeah, the series in its original form will be preserved on DVD while the changes will be on HD. Either way, you have a choice and both will be available for the ages in fine form.......unlike Star Wars.


Yup ... and when the "O-TOS" movement starts up, it'll be a snap to copy the old VFX scenes from the DVDs. None of this laserdisc stuff that's going on in SW fandom.

The Star Trek films are still sometimes getting fiddled with before they get put on DVD, but that's a whole 'nother matter.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Redoing the 60's FX work, (some of which did win an emmy or two) has been very controversial in fan circles ever since some now defunct CGI fx house proposed it to Paramount almost a decade ago. They redid a couple scenes from "The Doomsday Machine" episode as a proof of concept. A bit creaky by today's standard, but the idea never totally went away. And of course, fan films like "Starship Exeter" have great effects shots now. (Paramount ought to hire those guys!)
It will be a miracle if every film and sound element from TNG, DS9, and Voyager was saved over the years.
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Where were you in '77?

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Hmm, not sure I'm too excited about the redone special effects for the series. If they're done to preserve the original effects shots then that will be cool. Otherwise I'd prefer the older effects shots to be cleaned up only and would always want a version like that to take priority.

I have always liked Star Trek in the way it has tried to serve its fans. George Lucas should get a clue.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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That sounds like a really crappy thing to do to the original series.

They should just leave the bloody thing alone.


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I agree. I don't know why people can't just leave things the hell alone. Totally unnecessary. I mean, it's great that it's getting more respect than Star Wars, but that's like saying that such and such a group of people is being treated better than the indentured servants of a violent drunk. I'm not even a Star Trek fan, and I think it's still pretty rotten that they feel the need to update the effects in the first place.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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But the new Connie and K-7 models seen in Trials and Tribbletions and In a Mirror Darkly are really, really good. We're not talking about adding in floating droids and rontos parading around Cestus III, just replacing some 60s opticals with better composites of faithfully recreated models. Maybe adding some gradients or highlights to the various energy cloud effects out there.

Star Trek was intended to be viewed on a color NTSC television. (There were a few film presentations, but it was always meant to be a TV show.) DVD pretty much saturates the quality available from such a set, so I'm happy with the TOS DVDs. The original episodes -- insofar as the DVDs reflect those -- will always be available, as long as there's one Trekkie left to make a copy of them. Now that we are "upgrading" from the producer's intended medium to something better, it may be appropriate to insert better visual effects.

What it will come down to is this: Will the new animators set out to make better-looking TOS material, or will they set out to make something new and jam it into TOS? How much restraint and faithfulness will they show?

In short, don't get angry yet. Get angry if they crop it to make it 16:9.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I'm not about to stone anybody. Like I said, I'm not even a Star Trek fan. I just dislike changing and updating movies and TV shows on principle. I mean, I really don't get the reasoning either. If it was necessary for the next generation of fans to have modern effects in order to like it, I wouldn't be posting at this message board right now because I never would have liked the Star Wars Trilogy.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Scruffy
But the new Connie and K-7 models seen in Trials and Tribbletions and In a Mirror Darkly are really, really good. We're not talking about adding in floating droids and rontos parading around Cestus III, just replacing some 60s opticals with better composites of faithfully recreated models. Maybe adding some gradients or highlights to the various energy cloud effects out there.

Star Trek was intended to be viewed on a color NTSC television. (There were a few film presentations, but it was always meant to be a TV show.) DVD pretty much saturates the quality available from such a set, so I'm happy with the TOS DVDs. The original episodes -- insofar as the DVDs reflect those -- will always be available, as long as there's one Trekkie left to make a copy of them. Now that we are "upgrading" from the producer's intended medium to something better, it may be appropriate to insert better visual effects.


You make a great point there. I loved that episode of Deep Space Nine where they went back in time and were on the enterprise during the trouble-with-tribbles incident. The special effects shots were of the older ships but of a much higher quality and looked great. It would really be sweet to see a faithful reproduction of the original effects shots in a way where they simply looked better, especially for HD-DVD. Yet I wouldn't want the original effects shots to not be seen at all in an HD format. What would be great is if they made the HD releases to seamlessly switch to the original effects shots if you were to choose a different "play" option from the menu! (Go, go, 50 GB BD!!!)

Originally, all I wanted the SE of Star Wars to be was a simple updating of the original effects. Have everything be absolutely faithful to the original artistry but upgraded in a technical sense. That would have been beautiful as an alternate version of Star Wars. Instead we got a sloppy job that mostly added new crap that nobody in their right mind would ever have wanted. To make it worse we still aren't even allowed to see a version of the originals in new, DVD-dedicated master yet. >

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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^Here, here!!!

That was exactly what I was thinking when Lucas said he wanted to "update" the OT. I figured we'd get three movies that were still the same, but with updated SFX shots that fit right into the movie in terms of time and in terms of keeping with the sound and music tracks. That way we'd get three almost brand new movies, but they would still be the same. I figured Lucas would digitally restore the OT, then do this awesome magic and then then do the prequels from there. That way, all the movies would have basically fit together in SFX looks.

Lucas dropped the ball big time on an opportunity to re-insert himself into the movie world with those special editions. Instead, he hacked the movies up, made them look like shit and alienated a lot of fans in the process. Well....the man's crazy, so what do you expect.

As for Trek...the SFX from that mirror episode of Enterprise were awesome. The original series starship in that one looked majestic, I swear. I'm open to updating the SFX, but just the SFX....leave the actor's footage alone....just do the spaceship shots. But, as I said....I'm open to it. I can't say I'll like it. Personally, I say leave it the hell alone...but I wouldn't mind seeing it either. I say do one episode and then do a special broadcast of it. Then see what the reaction is.
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What would be great is if they made the HD releases to seamlessly switch to the original effects shots if you were to choose a different "play" option from the menu!


They've been doing this for a while (on DVD, that is) for old (pre-2005 series) episodes of Doctor Who. Some of the nicest were when they replaced (optionally) the wobbly pie tins on strings with retro black and white CGI flying saucers Some of the old video composites also get replaced permanently with steadier digital ones.

DE
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Here is a fan made version proof of concept by a professional CG artist who had done work on Trek that works very well.

http://www.trekenhanced.com/

Here is the original proof of concept by which doesn't look as good but was done earlier however I don't think they should be changing designs like was done by these guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HSYC6Wlbv8
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
^Here, here!!!

That was exactly what I was thinking when Lucas said he wanted to "update" the OT. I figured we'd get three movies that were still the same, but with updated SFX shots that fit right into the movie in terms of time and in terms of keeping with the sound and music tracks. That way we'd get three almost brand new movies, but they would still be the same. I figured Lucas would digitally restore the OT, then do this awesome magic and then then do the prequels from there. That way, all the movies would have basically fit together in SFX looks.

Lucas dropped the ball big time on an opportunity to re-insert himself into the movie world with those special editions. Instead, he hacked the movies up, made them look like shit and alienated a lot of fans in the process. Well....the man's crazy, so what do you expect.

AMEN! When you claim to fix things but actually add things no one wants and replace the things people have grown to love, and then on top of that, you can't even color the lightsabers right or clean up garbage mattes, you have a serious mental problem LOL

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Star Trek has some advantages over Star Wars on the sfx changes issues:
1. No one person controls Star Trek since Gene Roddenberry died. Star Wars is at the mercy of George Lucas. This makes it harder for someone to decide to start 'improving' things.
2. Star Trek has many more shows, movies, etc, to earn them royalties on. Lucas has a large company and only a handful of movies to support it. In addition, Star Trek seemed to focus their creative talents on creating new shows, Star Wars only had the OOT for a long time.
3. Star Trek doesn't seem to suffer as much from "my original vision" ideas. You didn't have Gene Roddenberry doing things like adding stuff to fit the "way he originally invisioned them".

Of course, saying that Star Trek gets better treatment overall, didn't see Enterprise or most of the Star Trek stuff they put out since Gene Roddenberry died. Maybe thats why they are doing the changes. Most things they have done recently failed badly, so they are going back and revisiting their older stuff.
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Apart from whether it's cool to re-do the 60's TV effects (which I dispute), there's the matter of how well that can be done while remaining faithful to the originals. I have noticed in the world that when craftspeople copy other works, the results are bad. And yet when those same craftspeople and artists work on something new, the results shine.

I think the whole idea of re-doing the past is a stupid one. Both in principal and in the feasibility of achieving the desired goal of improvement.



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TOS is my fav of the lot so that's good news. I also like the other 2 series based on different versions of the enterprise. Not too keen on the voyager and DS9 though.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1

You know, I could talk about the sheer idiocy of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, or how the latter ST series have radically changed in tone from the original series, but I'll just say "apples and oranges".


Please dude...dont' turn the thread into a knockfest on the quality of Trek in its various forms.


Well, you brought up a point I didn't agree with (the quality of the show in it's latter incarnations), but my intention was not to do anything of the sort.
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No matter how good this will look, it's still a bad idea for a very simple reason. It's just like watching the SE of Star Wars in 1997. Whenever you see a CGI effect on the screen, it's jarring and takes you out of the movie because you know very good and well it looks nothing like effects that were used in 1977.
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quoted from thedigitalbits.com

Well... it's the real deal, folks. As we first reported in The Rumor Mill the other day, and as was further confirmed by TrekMovie.com and AICN, CBS has just informed TV Guide's Insider that all 79 episodes of Gene Roddenberry's classic Star Trek: The Original Series are being given a special effects upgrade with new CG effects. Longtime Trek veterans Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda and David Rossi are apparently involved in the process to ensure that this is a class effort, as opposed to some kind of 'Where's Jar-Jar' operation. Says Mike in the Insider report: "We're taking great pains to respect the integrity and style of the original. Our goal is to always ask ourselves: What would Roddenberry have done with today's technology?" The ships will now have more detail, backgrounds will be more lively with people and activity, landscapes will now feature moving clouds, etc. The show's opening will be overhauled too, and the theme music has been re-recorded with a larger orchestra. What's more, technical goofs in the original production will apparently be fixed. Click here (or on the image below) for the article. We expect additional details to be announced by CBS shortly. As we anticipated, all of this work is being done in HD resolution (so they will likely EVENTUALLY be released on one or both of the high-def disc formats, though there are no official plans as yet). Our understanding is that the new "upgraded" episodes are part of a new syndication package to broadcast stations. The episodes are being upgraded one per week, and are being done out of order for some reason. The first upgraded ep, Balance of Terror, will apparently debut via broadcast syndication HD on 9/16. Consult your local listings. In the meantime, here's a look at the new CG Enterprise model...


http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/trekcgienterprise.jpg



This quoted from TVGuide.com

Star Trek purists, take a deep breath! On Sept. 16, the iconic ‘60s series will return to syndication for the first time since 1990, but with a startling difference: All 79 episodes are being digitally remastered with computer-generated effects not possible when Gene Roddenberry created the show 40 years ago. The news could cause Roddenberry loyalists to have a collective cow, but the longtime Trek staffers in charge of the makeover say they're honoring the late maestro's vision, not changing it.
"We're taking great pains to respect the integrity and style of the original," says Michael Okuda, who spent 18 years as a scenic-art supervisor on Star Trek films and spin-offs. "Our goal is to always ask ourselves: What would Roddenberry have done with today's technology?" Okuda's teammates on the two-year project are his wife, Denise Okuda, with whom he's authored several Trek reference books, and 14-year Trek production vet David Rossi.
The upgraded episodes — to be shown out of order and one per week — will kick off with "Balance of Terror," a big fan favorite "that gives us a chance to really show off the ‘new' Enterprise," says Okuda. "The exterior of the ship now has depth and detail, and it will fly more dynamically." (Click here for a larger version of the image at left.) Painted backdrops will also be brought to life: Once-empty star bases will have CGI people milling about, while static alien landscapes have been given slow-moving clouds and shimmering water. Okuda notes that a view of Earth in the 1966 episode "Miri" has been "replaced with a more accurate image, now that we've gone into deep space and looked back at ourselves."
Trek's opening theme is also getting an overhaul: The music has been re-recorded in stereo with a bigger orchestra, and a new singer has been hired to wail those famous but wordless vocals. And goofs will be corrected: In "The Naked Time," there was no beam coming out of Scotty's phaser when he tried to cut through the bulkhead outside Engineering. Now there is.



No thanks. These people shit me up the wall. They have the balls to say " What would Roddenberry have done with today's technology? "..and then presume that he would have done this? I would like to think he just may have used it to create something new and relevant to the situation the world is in now, rather than milk something for every thing it was worth. Worthless hacks ! This is about MONEY, and not a fucking thing else. They should stop trying to talk it up like it's about anything else.
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I tend to disagree. This is not like SW where we don't have preteen versions of the originals, TOS has been released on DVD in very nice box sets. To me this is just fun and I will be interested in watching it. If I want to see the originals I always have my box sets. Plus there won't be any story/character changes the likes we have seen Lucas do. So no harm no foul as far as I am concerned. Truth is I wouldn't have a problem with the upgraded versions of SW if care had been taken to preserve the original and it was available for us on in good quality on DVD.

Take a look at http://www.trekenhanced.com/ and you may change your mind. If not, don't watch, get the DVD's and watch to your hearts content. I am sure the price will be discounted now just like TNG was a few months back. Plus this is a good idea to maybe get Trek on the right track something I think it has not been on since deep space nine IMHO. TOS was always the best and hopefully this will attract a lot of new fans.
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I'm gonna give this a wait and see. I don't think there's much point to it, but neither do I think it's total blasphemy.

I am not really fond of even the most "harmless" change to Star Wars effects ... say, for example, the Sandcrawler shots which most people find to be improvements. I do not. I don't like the artificiality of them. CGI looks different than models ... perfect "artist's rendering" skies look different than real skies. Even though these replacement shots do nothing to destroy the integrity of the movie, I do not care for them.

Star Trek might be a different story, though, and I'm willing to wait and see. Having the originals available is always a plus ... and perhaps these will be genuine improvements. Having said that - - the art direction of the show reeks of the 60's (not necessarily in a bad way) ... and I'm not sure improved effects won't look entirely out-of-place.


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