Originally posted by: tellan
the only way for us to get OOUT on DVD in top quality is for LFL to do what they did to the 2004 SE. rescan the original film neg, recomposite everything digitally.
Most of us don´t even demand this. We just want them to be remastered from a good 35mm copy, which various sources have already claimed to posess.
considering that to make the 1997 SE, the had to scan and recomp everything in the first place, there must be a full versioin of the original film to start with, Lucas just doesn't want to acknowledge its existence.
Well, he recut the negative, which means the OOT can not easily be obtained from the negative anymore. But negatives aren´t the only high quality sources.
laserdisc.
=
film neg
Afaik, the Laserdiscs were not mastered from the negatives but preservation copies.
to master tape
Involving old telecine equipment, which does not yield the clarity and resolution modern film scanners achieve.
to laserdisc processed version
to capture version (raw footage reinterpolated by a computer system)
to re-encoded. (ad infinitum depending on how many processed you run it through.)
Laserdiscs are not digital, hence there is no re-encoding.
that means, our bootlegs are between 4 or more steps between us and the original film which is a lot of processing.
Which is even more shameful considering that the pictures already suggest there won´t be much quality difference.
new OUT DVD
=
film neg
Again, no.
to master tape
to dvd
You forgot the encoding process.
gives us more grain etc but we are working with more raw footage. okay, it means the film grain is there (bear in mind that the lowry processing pretty much eliminated the original film grain anyway, giving us a really pristine image but it always felt a little odd to me because its almost too perfect.)
Another jump on boris "but there is no filmgrain!!!!" wagon. First: DVD is too much of a low quality medium, to see film grain when movies are mastered from the negative. If you master from n-generation 35mm copies or 16mm, you can see grain even on DVD´s.
Furthermore: most people here don´t mind film grain. Film grain is a natural element of 35mm. What we mind is loss of resolution and brilliance through:
1. Non anamorphic transfers
2. Transfers made with old telecine equipment (lack of contrast, and resolution).
then I can use my filters, colour correction etc to bring the footage up. Russ15 knows what my filters can do after I showed him some samples from when I fiddled with the editdroid version.
Yo can not add picture information where there is nothing.
of course. all the work being done by X0 project is relevant because as the LD and the new OUT DVD is struck from the same master tapes, then the footage suffers from the same problems of dirt, grain, damaged frames etc.
No, because they are hand-fixing these problems. I believe that in the end, the X0 transfer will look better than the official DVD´s. They are working with raw uncompressed images while when workind with the DVD, you have to re-compress everything, introducing more digital artifacts.
so, while this release isn't exactly top, we were already adjusting non anamorphic LD to be anamorphic, so nothing changed there, we have an original source to look at.
Again: YOU CAN NOT ENHANCE THE PICTURE QUALITY BY UPSCALING A NON-ANAMORPHIC FRAME TO ANAMORPHIC.
I think the only unanswered question is whether or not the original trilogy release to come is using master tapes? or master tapes that had the additional processing etc for ´LD added to it.
the only way for us to get OOUT on DVD in top quality is for LFL to do what they did to the 2004 SE. rescan the original film neg, recomposite everything digitally.
Most of us don´t even demand this. We just want them to be remastered from a good 35mm copy, which various sources have already claimed to posess.
considering that to make the 1997 SE, the had to scan and recomp everything in the first place, there must be a full versioin of the original film to start with, Lucas just doesn't want to acknowledge its existence.
Well, he recut the negative, which means the OOT can not easily be obtained from the negative anymore. But negatives aren´t the only high quality sources.
laserdisc.
=
film neg
Afaik, the Laserdiscs were not mastered from the negatives but preservation copies.
to master tape
Involving old telecine equipment, which does not yield the clarity and resolution modern film scanners achieve.
to laserdisc processed version
to capture version (raw footage reinterpolated by a computer system)
to re-encoded. (ad infinitum depending on how many processed you run it through.)
Laserdiscs are not digital, hence there is no re-encoding.
that means, our bootlegs are between 4 or more steps between us and the original film which is a lot of processing.
Which is even more shameful considering that the pictures already suggest there won´t be much quality difference.
new OUT DVD
=
film neg
Again, no.
to master tape
to dvd
You forgot the encoding process.
gives us more grain etc but we are working with more raw footage. okay, it means the film grain is there (bear in mind that the lowry processing pretty much eliminated the original film grain anyway, giving us a really pristine image but it always felt a little odd to me because its almost too perfect.)
Another jump on boris "but there is no filmgrain!!!!" wagon. First: DVD is too much of a low quality medium, to see film grain when movies are mastered from the negative. If you master from n-generation 35mm copies or 16mm, you can see grain even on DVD´s.
Furthermore: most people here don´t mind film grain. Film grain is a natural element of 35mm. What we mind is loss of resolution and brilliance through:
1. Non anamorphic transfers
2. Transfers made with old telecine equipment (lack of contrast, and resolution).
then I can use my filters, colour correction etc to bring the footage up. Russ15 knows what my filters can do after I showed him some samples from when I fiddled with the editdroid version.
Yo can not add picture information where there is nothing.
of course. all the work being done by X0 project is relevant because as the LD and the new OUT DVD is struck from the same master tapes, then the footage suffers from the same problems of dirt, grain, damaged frames etc.
No, because they are hand-fixing these problems. I believe that in the end, the X0 transfer will look better than the official DVD´s. They are working with raw uncompressed images while when workind with the DVD, you have to re-compress everything, introducing more digital artifacts.
so, while this release isn't exactly top, we were already adjusting non anamorphic LD to be anamorphic, so nothing changed there, we have an original source to look at.
Again: YOU CAN NOT ENHANCE THE PICTURE QUALITY BY UPSCALING A NON-ANAMORPHIC FRAME TO ANAMORPHIC.
I think the only unanswered question is whether or not the original trilogy release to come is using master tapes? or master tapes that had the additional processing etc for ´LD added to it.
Isn´t this irrelevant? Both will look like sh/t on DVD.