Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Make this your first order of business. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go straight to the video store and rent this film.
I actually got rid of all my Burton/Schumaker DVDs after seeing this film.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Just out of curiosity, what problems did you have with The Penguin and the rest of the Burton movies aside from Catwoman?
The more time that passes from Burton's universe, the more it seems like the Adam West era. Schumaker's goes without saying as that was a deliberate attempt to return the films to their 60s camp, but Burtons films, which were supposed to be different, feel more and more like the 60s as time goes on. But that's just me. My specific issues:
* Keaton never completely sold me as being Batman. If Burton wanted to cast a Beetlejuice alumnus, he should've cast Alec Baldwin.
* Vicky Vale, who won The Pulitzer with photos of charred bodies on the front lines war, reduced herself to screaming at every turn throughout the second half of "Batman." Not only was it annoying, it was so wrong for her character.
* The fact that "Batman" should have been called "The Joker" instead due to overdeveloping the villain and underdeveloping the hero.
* The pointless desecration of a church for the finale of "Batman" was an anti-Christian vibe I picked up on from the first viewing. If you're going to desecrate a church in the name of art, at least make it a relevant plot point. I can deal with Hudson Hawk desecrating the Vatican just fine -- it is germane to the plot.
* The ham-fisted loss of Vicky Vale in the second film, and of Catwoman in the third film. These set up important character development arcs that were just flushed away for the sake of getting a fresh face.
* Missile-toting Assassin Penguins!
* The droning circus freak chick's countdown to Armageddon.
* Society muckety-mucks leaving their kids unattended at home on Christmas Eve. Apparently Gotham has no babysitters.
There is still a lot that was good in both films, but these were major flaws that kept me from ever truly loving and embracing them. And I LOVE Tim Burton flicks.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
(well, I honestly haven't seen Begins yet)
Just out of curiosity, what problems did you have with The Penguin and the rest of the Burton movies aside from Catwoman?
The more time that passes from Burton's universe, the more it seems like the Adam West era. Schumaker's goes without saying as that was a deliberate attempt to return the films to their 60s camp, but Burtons films, which were supposed to be different, feel more and more like the 60s as time goes on. But that's just me. My specific issues:
* Keaton never completely sold me as being Batman. If Burton wanted to cast a Beetlejuice alumnus, he should've cast Alec Baldwin.
* Vicky Vale, who won The Pulitzer with photos of charred bodies on the front lines war, reduced herself to screaming at every turn throughout the second half of "Batman." Not only was it annoying, it was so wrong for her character.
* The fact that "Batman" should have been called "The Joker" instead due to overdeveloping the villain and underdeveloping the hero.
* The pointless desecration of a church for the finale of "Batman" was an anti-Christian vibe I picked up on from the first viewing. If you're going to desecrate a church in the name of art, at least make it a relevant plot point. I can deal with Hudson Hawk desecrating the Vatican just fine -- it is germane to the plot.
* The ham-fisted loss of Vicky Vale in the second film, and of Catwoman in the third film. These set up important character development arcs that were just flushed away for the sake of getting a fresh face.
* Missile-toting Assassin Penguins!
* The droning circus freak chick's countdown to Armageddon.
* Society muckety-mucks leaving their kids unattended at home on Christmas Eve. Apparently Gotham has no babysitters.
There is still a lot that was good in both films, but these were major flaws that kept me from ever truly loving and embracing them. And I LOVE Tim Burton flicks.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
(well, I honestly haven't seen Begins yet)
Make this your first order of business. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go straight to the video store and rent this film.
I actually got rid of all my Burton/Schumaker DVDs after seeing this film.
I disagree. For me, Keaton is and always will be THE Batman. I think he was the perfect choice for both Wayne and the Dark Knight. As great as Nicholson's performance was, I never understood why so many people even critics say that he stole the show. If a particular performance is great, does it have to diminish everything else? It was all good! For me, the atmosphere stole the show, and the aura of the Batman Burton generated overshadowed both Keaton and Nicholson. I think it did well to show that Batman is more than a man; more than Bruce Wayne.
I'm a Christian, and I have never had a problem with the fight in the cathedral (and by no means am I trying to impose my own convictions upon you, ADM): for a few reasons, both theological and theatrical. For one, there really is no such thing as desecrating a church - the church building is not the dwelling place of God - a church is a gathering of Christians in fellowship; the Church is Christianity at large; the people; and God's dwelling place is within his people. Not that I'm advocating burning down churches or the like - I'm just saying that it's just another building.
Now for the theatrical reason: it's an iconic fight between good and evil; the Joker is a demonic force and the Batman angelic. The Batman is like a gargoyle in that cathedral both in appearance and metaphysically; a sentinel watching over it, and he has deemed that a demon has entered the building and must be cast out. I think the cathedral setting served to give the fight a more spiritual dimension rather than an anti-Christian vibe, but again, I can't speak for others' reception of the material.