logo Sign In

The Film Industry

Author
Date
Author
Time
Post link
I thought this would be a good topic for discussion:

How would a film director get into the industry, and somehow get into a position where he's in complete control of what he's doing (cinematography, music, and so forth) and actually start making great movies again. I know that popular taste has changed and all, and that movies have been seriously dumbed down lately. But how do you get into the position to make something radically different?

I'm talking about Alfred Hitchcock/ 70's Spielberg type stuff. Stuff that's indisputably great without resorting to popular taste or stupidity. Is it even possible to make movies like this any more? I think we're due for a renaissance.
Author
Time
Post link
The 70s were very different times than today. Thanks to Jaws and Star Wars, we now have people like Jerry Bruckheimer. If you want creative control, you're generally regulated to the indie film scene.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

Author
Time
Post link
I think Mike nailed it on that one. You have to have one of those unbelievably lucky indie films that just breaks the bank in terms of total box office. Then you wind up with a contract at a smaller studio and the ability to do what you want within limits. I'm not sure that anyone has complete freedom anymore. There is studio control exerted on absolutely everyone in some way, shape, or form.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
Author
Time
Post link
Which is really a shame. Relegated by who? How does one become the person that relegates? Politics? Being in with the right people?

I don't think they realize how many more people would come to the movies if film actually became an art form again.
Author
Time
Post link
It's strange, though, because I wish that filmmakers were in control of their own projects. But then we have filmmakers like Lucas who totally abuse that right, and it makes me wonder if it should be like that or not.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Well, Kucas is a bit of a different situation. He chose to remove himself from the stadard Hollywood machine because of the way Star Wars and he were personally treated. For someone who claims that he doesn't listen to critics, he sure does care about what they say.

Hitchcock is a great example, and I'm glad you brought him up, of someone who managed to find an ingenious way of maintaining final control. He would storyboard the shit out of everything, and seldom deviate from it. Essentially, like Spielberg, the film would already be edited in his mind before the first foof of film went through the camera.

This prevented the studio from jumping in and altering his "vision" because there was no footage shot that he didn't want. Pretty smart guy. Spielberg did exactly the same thing, more or less, and it wasn't until Schindler's List that he deviated from the storyboard.

Now, this is a bit of a double edged sword, especially in the case of Lucas. Professional editors are trained to tell a story in 120 minutes or so, in the most effective and efficient way. They know what works - and then you get some director coming in and messing around with it. It flops or doesn't work, and the editing gets blamed. It must have sucked to be Ben Burtt from 1999-2004.

These days, anyone can shoot a film. Mini-DV cameras are so damn cheap now, and most PC's or MACS can run high end editing software. Armed with a good script and some decent actors and someone who knows a little craft, there's nothing stopping someone from producing a really great flick this way. It's basically the way Rodridguez (sp?), Linklater and even Tarantino started in the 90's.

No one is ever going to produce Armageddon 2 - The Return Of The Rock on a $500 budget, but damnit anything is possible with the right amount of skill and ambition.

EDIT - I realize I spelled Lucas wrong - then I looked at it and kept it 'cause it was funny.
Author
Time
Post link
Heh, yeah, Kucas. I liked that. I also liked where you wrote foof. Kucas and Foof. That should totally be the name of a cartoon. Or a sexual position. I haven't decided yet.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Ooops! I meant foot, lol. Kukas & Foof - sounds like a store where rich teens buy polo shirts made by underage Malaysian kids.
Author
Time
Post link
Yeah, you gotta love stores like that. Oh, wait, did I say love? My mistake.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
C'mon guys - $250 for a pair of pre-ripped jeans? A bargain, surely!

War does not make one great.

Author
Time
Post link
Much more important than eating, I can tell you that.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Considering the stores that carry them and the sizes they come in, you pretty much have to give up eating to fit in them, don't you? So it all works out in the end.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
Author
Time
Post link
That only really applies to girls, though, right? And I cringe as I say that. You know, I think both genders need complete reboots. Females need to stop worrying desperately about their physical appearances and other superficial crap, and males need to become more sensitive and nurturing.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
That only really applies to girls, though, right? And I cringe as I say that. You know, I think both genders need complete reboots. Females need to stop worrying desperately about their physical appearances and other superficial crap, and males need to become more sensitive and nurturing.
I tell you something, since being in ND I have really been made to feel like I am not a 'Real Man' because I am sensitive and I don't fish and I don't know how to rebuild a car or a house. However, can any man here fix (or even use) a computer? Or cook? Well I can, so in your face North Dakota!!

EDIT: Boy have we gone off topic!

War does not make one great.

Author
Time
Post link
Has anyone there ever told you you're not a "Real Man (TM)"? If so, I hope you beat the shit out of them... in a sensitive and nurturing way.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Has anyone there ever told you you're not a "Real Man (TM)"? If so, I hope you beat the shit out of them... in a sensitive and nurturing way.
Nobody has actually said those words, but it has been implied.

The funny thing is, I grew up in a really rough part of a huge city. I've seen shit that would turn them white.

War does not make one great.

Author
Time
Post link
Hmmm...guess they don't call this joint "Off Topic" for nothing...

I suspect that the changing role of the producer may have had something to do with it as well. The producer, as I see it now, simply funds the operation and gets all the housekeeping issues out of the way so that the director et al can get on with their specific tasks. Whereas before (again, as I perceive it), producers were more hands-on and served as bouncing walls for the director and his ideas. Like Gary Kurtz - we really have him to thank for ESB, I believe.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
Author
Time
Post link
Really? I was under the impression that producers can be much more meddling nowadays.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
I wouldn't say that they were more 'meddling' back in the day, but I would say that they took a more active interest in the creative process of film-making...but I'm not an expert, by any means.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: theredbaron
I wouldn't say that they were more 'meddling' back in the day, but I would say that they took a more active interest in the creative process of film-making...but I'm not an expert, by any means.


Depends when "the day" is that we're talking about. In the early days of the Hollywood studio system, mid-30's up to, let's say the early 70's, most Producers would work closely with the Director to achieve mutual goals. Think Spielberg and Marshall or Kennedy - that kind of a relationship.

Somewhere around the early 70's, Producing became less about the art and more about the business and the Studio making money. Producers became increasingly budget concious to increase the profit margin. The old style Producer was dying, to be replaced by people like Robert Evans who craved the celebrity and notoriety over serious craft or art and later folks like Bruckheimer. That's not to say they weren't effective in their own right, but most Producers at this stage were hired by studios for their business acumen, as opposed to artistic integrity.

Everyone recognizes the name David O. Selznick as the quintessential old school Hollywood Producer - so much so that many credit him with the creation of Gone With The Wind or King Kong. Quick, without checking IMDB, who directed GWTW (name all three).

Now, quick - who produced Brokeback Mountain?

See my point?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Davis
Which is really a shame. Relegated by who? How does one become the person that relegates? Politics? Being in with the right people?

I don't think they realize how many more people would come to the movies if film actually became an art form again.

People who want to make money. Movies are still an art form and I've seen films that encase the filmmaker's artistic skills in commercial packaging. There is also just such a thing as good commercial filmmaking (James Cameron, Peter Jackson, Steven Speilberg, Chris Nolan, etc.)/ Sadly, the answer to everything seems to be money.

I think Mike nailed it on that one.

Thanks .

Really? I was under the impression that producers can be much more meddling nowadays.


Depends on a lot of things.



Now, quick - who produced Brokeback Mountain?


Great film, BTW. Yes, but notice, that many filmakers like David Lynch, who make works that are, shall we say different, have to find producers or exec producers willing to gamble on their ideas, or find a production partner (i.e., Tarantino and Lawrence Bender) who will work with them. Heck, look at Rick McCallum. Lucas picked him so that RM could pull all the strings to that GL could make the movie that he wanted.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death