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So Who Killed Palpatine, Anyway? (This thread is made from 100% post-poster recycled bandwidth)

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I have asked this question in a couple of different places, and I suppose it goes unnoticed in the context of a thread pertaining to another topic. So, hoping for an answer, I give this a thread all its own:


George Lucas has said that Anakin died when he was given his Sith name Darth Vader and that's why Hayden Christensen appears in Return of the Jedi: 2004 "Special" Edition.

My questions:

1) Does this mean Darth Vader threw Palpatine into the shaft?

2) Was Vader, up to the moment of his death, still trying to assume the title of Sith Master?

3) Doesn't this mean Anakin was never really redeemed? Or he was never really evil in the first place, since he died in ROTS?

4) If that was Vader who killed the Emperor, why was he acting like a sensitive, compassionate Jedi in the end? "Tell your sister...you were right." What self-respecting Sith says this kind of thing?

Of course, I know the real answer to all this - Lucas messed up - but can any of you find a way to validate his explanation?

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Han Solo and Empatajayos Brand killed Palpatine, with the help of all the Jedi who came before.

My own opinion on Lucas's changing conception of Anakin/Vader's identity in RotJ is well documented in the archives of this forum; if anyone cares, I can repost it.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Nah, I could care less about his rationalization...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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So Who Cares, Anyway?
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I'll try to play devils advocate for a minute and go with Lucas's story that Anakin was 'dead' when he became Darth Vader.
Anakin wasn't ever totally 'dead'. He was mostly dead, which is different from dead dead (If you've ever seen the movie "Princess Bride" there was a line that goes something like that, which makes sense in this case). Or at least he got 'resurrected'.
So Anakin, not Vader, threw the Emperor down the shaft, and Vader wasn't going to try to assume the Sith mastership.
Yes, in the end it comes down to Lucas overexplaning things and boxing himself in on other things, but something like that might make sense...
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So Anakin was "mostly" dead? That explains how he didn't know his wife was pregnant with twins ... it was "mostly" a single fetus. "Mostly" could replace "certain point of view" as a fanboy rationalization factor.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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They 'mostly' come at night... 'mostly'
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
So Anakin was "mostly" dead? That explains how he didn't know his wife was pregnant with twins ... it was "mostly" a single fetus. "Mostly" could replace "certain point of view" as a fanboy rationalization factor.


Didn't mean it as a "fanboy rationalization factor". Just trying my best to respond to things using Lucas's strange logic.
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Anakin's 'death' upon becoming Darth Vader is a metaphor. He didn't litterally become a new person, but everything he once cared about no longer mattered.

4

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So there was Palpatine's body fallen in the ground, and several imperial officers looking at it. "Oh it wasn't Lord Vader, it was beauty that killed the beast."
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Anakin's 'death' upon becoming Darth Vader is a metaphor. He didn't litterally become a new person, but everything he once cared about no longer mattered.


Yeah, but George takes it too literally, especially in the apparent fact that "Anakin" couldn't come back from the dead, i.e. being redeemed, since the first dead Anakin is now what appears at the end rather than the second dead Anakin. You know, there are just too many freakin' dead Anakins nowadays.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Of course, I know the real answer to all this - Lucas messed up - but can any of you find a way to validate his explanation?


No because there is no valid explanation. It's all a bunch of crap meant to tie 3 bad movies to 3 good movies.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Correct answer. End of thread.
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MagnoliaFan. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time... a long time.
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Good Lord, apparenty none of you understand George Lucas' genius.

Anakin died when he became a Sith Lord (and the exact point where that occurred in the PT should be laughably obvious except to someone stupid). But, this was only a spiritual death on the part of our eternal hero. And so, with the body of noble Anakin remaining behind, the soul and spirit of an evil Jawa Demon came and possessed the now-vacant body of “Darth Vader.” (I should note here that all Sith Lords as a matter of fact, are possessed by evil, demonic, Jawa spirits.) Thus, the true story of the original trilogy should become very obvious to anyone following this logic. It was a quest on the part of Luke and Leia to resurrect the spirit of their dead father by guilt tripping the evil Jawa spirit into feeling empathy for Luke. Thus, as you see, it’s all incredibly simple.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Ohhh! Now I understand! So the same Jawas who sold us R2 and 3PO also had a high midichlorian count, and when the Imperial troops slaughtered them, their energy went to Vader.

It's just like teacher says: Everytime a Jawa screams, a Vader squeals with glee!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Well, in terms of physical life forms, Jawa bodies for the most part are incredibly low in their midiclorian count. The exception to that is their eyes. Jawa eyes have the highest midiclorian count known among Star Wars life forms. Tthe energy generated by the midiclorians is what acually causes their eyes to glow so brightly and it is through that power that their spirits gain the ability to come back after death and possess Sith warriors.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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if you count his two deaths in the EU he died three times!

1. Vader Kills him in rotj

2. he kills himself with a force storm by it backfiring in dark empire

3. Han Solo and Empatajayos Brand killed Palpatine, with the help of all the Jedi who came before in empire's end

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Who killed Palpatine? I'll tell you. It was Video, who then proceeded to kill the Radio Star. Shh....
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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
if you count his two deaths in the EU he died three times!

1. Vader Kills him in rotj

2. he kills himself with a force storm by it backfiring in dark empire

3. Han Solo and Empatajayos Brand killed Palpatine, with the help of all the Jedi who came before in empire's end


You forgot his death by self-combustion in Dark Empire, as well as his reported "many" deaths before Endor (since retconned to 0 deaths by current LFL canon).
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Who killed Palpatine? I'll tell you. It was Video, who then proceeded to kill the Radio Star. Shh....


Ohhh. Poor Palpatine. Poor Radio Star. Damned MTV.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I know the answer!!!
It was Colonel Mustard in the conservatory with the lead pipe!
Do I win?