logo Sign In

General Batman Talk — Page 2

Author
Time
Post link
On a non-Animated series note, I believe that the biggest mistake(s) made in a Batman film (and this was done in the two greatest Batman films) was to reveal the identity of Bruce Wayne's parents' killer. Both times it worked great for the one film (although Begins probably could have done without it), but at the end of the day, it gave Batman direct retribution for the act that in all other media (especially the comics) haunted him and motivated him his entire life (thus meaning Batman needs a different, perhaps too noble motive to his actions in each successive film). The drive that Batman has to do what he does stems from the fact that anyone could have killed his parents; that so long as crime exists, more Martha and Thomas Waynes will die on the streets.

On another note, has anyone noticed that the name John Corben was given to the Waynes' killer in Begins? Anyone recognise this as being the same name as Superman's nemesis, Metallo (the suspicion that John Corben/Metallo killed Batman's parents was brought up in Superman/Batman: Public Enemies not too long ago)?
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
Author
Time
Post link
Even in the comics, Batman figured out who killed his parents relatively early on. In a comic in the 1950s, Joe Chill is revealed to have been the thug who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman actually reveals himself to Joe, demasking and everything. Chill runs away to tell his goons in an attempt to get backup, but they get so pissed that Chill created Batman that they shoot him down in anger before getting to ask him who Batman was.

I'm not sure if any of this still holds in Post Crisis/Modern Era comics, but it wasn't just the movies that had that. Regardless, Batman still continued to fight crime.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I'm referring to the shift from Batman: The Animated Series to The Adventures of Batman and Robin, which I do believe was a decision from higher up in order to safeguard the kiddies by having Robin's constant presence lighten the mood. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Robin, and I really liked that version of Robin and didn't mind the switch, but it does kinda wrinkle my nose when a network starts demanding a shift in the direction of the show, and I think it was simply the first nail that led to the horrible animation shift later on with the WB.

I don't know, I liked most of the redesigns on TNBA. Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Pengiun, ESPECIALLY BANE, and Scarecrow. The only ones I really disliked was the new Joker and Riddler. Well, Ventriloquist too. I don't know what they were thinking with that one. That said, paving the way for the "The Batman" designs is a sin in and of itself.

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Even in the comics, Batman figured out who killed his parents relatively early on. In a comic in the 1950s, Joe Chill is revealed to have been the thug who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman actually reveals himself to Joe, demasking and everything. Chill runs away to tell his goons in an attempt to get backup, but they get so pissed that Chill created Batman that they shoot him down in anger before getting to ask him who Batman was.

I'm not sure if any of this still holds in Post Crisis/Modern Era comics, but it wasn't just the movies that had that. Regardless, Batman still continued to fight crime.


Batman knowing who killed his parents has been true of most all his history. It was only changed after Zero Hour in attempt to make Batman more dark and gritty. (Implying that he wouldn't even bother fighting crime if he didn't know who had killed his parents)...

After Infinite Crisis, they've changed it back so that Joe Chill was captured and brought to justice.

4

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I'm referring to the shift from Batman: The Animated Series to The Adventures of Batman and Robin, which I do believe was a decision from higher up in order to safeguard the kiddies by having Robin's constant presence lighten the mood. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Robin, and I really liked that version of Robin and didn't mind the switch, but it does kinda wrinkle my nose when a network starts demanding a shift in the direction of the show, and I think it was simply the first nail that led to the horrible animation shift later on with the WB.

I don't know, I liked most of the redesigns on TNBA. Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Pengiun, ESPECIALLY BANE, and Scarecrow. The only ones I really disliked was the new Joker and Riddler. Well, Ventriloquist too. I don't know what they were thinking with that one. That said, paving the way for the "The Batman" designs is a sin in and of itself.

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Even in the comics, Batman figured out who killed his parents relatively early on. In a comic in the 1950s, Joe Chill is revealed to have been the thug who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman actually reveals himself to Joe, demasking and everything. Chill runs away to tell his goons in an attempt to get backup, but they get so pissed that Chill created Batman that they shoot him down in anger before getting to ask him who Batman was.

I'm not sure if any of this still holds in Post Crisis/Modern Era comics, but it wasn't just the movies that had that. Regardless, Batman still continued to fight crime.


Batman knowing who killed his parents has been true of most all his history. It was only changed after Zero Hour in attempt to make Batman more dark and gritty. (Implying that he wouldn't even bother fighting crime if he didn't know who had killed his parents)...

After Infinite Crisis, they've changed it back so that Joe Chill was captured and brought to justice.



Well, if you're talking about the Frank Miller Batman (who is pretty much THE Batman these days), then he doesn't know who killed his parents (though he suspects it may have been John Corben/Metallo); he has nightmares about the event almost every night; and he dances on the edge of justice and revenge.

So yeah, while it may have been true to most of his history, I'd have to say that the character of Batman was almost untenable pre-80s, particularly from the point of view of making a Batman film today. Read any 70s Batman comic and tell me that it doesn't just read like Spiderman dialogue dressed as Batman. When I read the monologues of DKR, I think finally, someone has found the voice of Batman.

Sure, some people may not be as fond of the DKR/Year One Batman as I am, but he is pretty much the entire basis for Burton's and Nolan's films (and for the comics ever since then). Since they are going for Batman as The Dark Knight, it seems to me that dark and gritty is the order of the day, and that it would be great to see Batman pushed to the edge of his sanity. They can still do it, but how can Batman's enemies (or indeed Batman himself) question his motives now when they rest on a nobler platform: "it's not who I am, but what I do that defines me" instead of "I made a promise to my parents, that I would rid the city of the evil that took their lives."

Don't get me wrong, I still like a lot of the 70s Batman comics (Strange Apparitions, Tales of the Demon), but I like them in the same way as I like the Rocky films: poor dialogue, poor acting, but a great story arc with enough charm to carry it.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: theredbaron


Well, if you're talking about the Frank Miller Batman (who is pretty much THE Batman these days), then he doesn't know who killed his parents (though he suspects it may have been John Corben/Metallo); he has nightmares about the event almost every night; and he dances on the edge of justice and revenge.

I believe Lex Luthor or someone else only tricked Batman into believing it was Metallo, and that was only post-Zero Hour. Even after Batman: Year One and Frank Miller's reimagining of the character, Joe Chill was still the murderer.


So yeah, while it may have been true to most of his history, I'd have to say that the character of Batman was almost untenable pre-80s, particularly from the point of view of making a Batman film today. Read any 70s Batman comic and tell me that it doesn't just read like Spiderman dialogue dressed as Batman. When I read the monologues of DKR, I think finally, someone has found the voice of Batman.


Though he has pretty much lost it now, if "All Star Batman and Robin" is any indication. Batman in the seventies wasn't really bad compared to the past twenty years. That was when they started moving him back towards his darker roots. The fifties and sixties were when Batman was a total doofus.

4

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Originally posted by: theredbaron


Well, if you're talking about the Frank Miller Batman (who is pretty much THE Batman these days), then he doesn't know who killed his parents (though he suspects it may have been John Corben/Metallo); he has nightmares about the event almost every night; and he dances on the edge of justice and revenge.

I believe Lex Luthor or someone else only tricked Batman into believing it was Metallo, and that was only post-Zero Hour. Even after Batman: Year One and Frank Miller's reimagining of the character, Joe Chill was still the murderer.


So yeah, while it may have been true to most of his history, I'd have to say that the character of Batman was almost untenable pre-80s, particularly from the point of view of making a Batman film today. Read any 70s Batman comic and tell me that it doesn't just read like Spiderman dialogue dressed as Batman. When I read the monologues of DKR, I think finally, someone has found the voice of Batman.


Though he has pretty much lost it now, if "All Star Batman and Robin" is any indication. Batman in the seventies wasn't really bad compared to the past twenty years. That was when they started moving him back towards his darker roots. The fifties and sixties were when Batman was a total doofus.


But he survived the 50s and 60s so be grateful.

So can anyone think of an actress who could play Catwoman in more sequels to Begins?
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So can anyone think of an actress who could play Catwoman in more sequels to Begins?


http://www.lostfocus.de/images/mademoiselles/morena-baccarin-03-thumb.jpg

Morena Baccarin from Firefly/Serenity.

MEEE-ow!
Author
Time
Post link
Heh, people want Morena to be Wonder Woman, Catwoman, what next? Not that I disagree, but I am curious as to what other sexy comic book character she could possibly be.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: greencapt
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So can anyone think of an actress who could play Catwoman in more sequels to Begins?


http://www.lostfocus.de/images/mademoiselles/morena-baccarin-03-thumb.jpg

Morena Baccarin from Firefly/Serenity.

MEEE-ow!


If you look at the Catwoman from The Long Halloween/ Dark Victory/ When in Rome or anything else by Loeb & Sale, then Morena Baccarin looks like the perfect choice, even in demeanour...

http://www.timsale1.com/catwoman/downloads/cw_coversketch_desktop.jpg

Not a lot to go off, but surely the comparison is understandable...
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Okay, well, I'm sold on Morena.


I just hope if the character *does* show up in the Nolan-verse that she's... gasp... a burglar and not somehow undead or the living embodiment of Cat Chow or something. Just a good cat burglar.
Author
Time
Post link
I seriously doubt if the character could be warped any more beyond what's already happened, unless she's made into an Animorph and can actually change into a cat. And not a humanoid cat, mind you, but an honest to goodness cat. Kinda like that episode of South Park were Korn shows up, and they use their Korn powers and turn into corn.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Remember this bit of eloquent dialogue from All Star Batman and Robin?
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
Author
Time
Post link
Honestly? No... I don't.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: TheSessler
Remember this bit of eloquent dialogue from All Star Batman and Robin?


BWAHAHAHAHA.

*stops laughing, breaks down and begins to cry*

Is this how far the Batman has fallen since The Animated Series? WHY FRANK MILLER!? WHY!?!

4

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: TheSessler
Remember this bit of eloquent dialogue from All Star Batman and Robin?


I am SOOOOOO glad I took Chaltab's advice and avloided this comic like the plague!

On the other hand, I'm really digging what DC is doing with the new creative teams on 'Batman' and 'Detective'. Good stuff!
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: greencapt
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Okay, well, I'm sold on Morena.


I just hope if the character *does* show up in the Nolan-verse that she's... gasp... a burglar and not somehow undead or the living embodiment of Cat Chow or something. Just a good cat burglar.


I agree.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
I think it would be cool if she was robbing a priceless statue of a cat from Gotham Museum and gets possessed by the spirit of the ancient Egyptian God of Cats who has been trapped in the statue for a thousand years.

War does not make one great.

Author
Time
Post link
Well, I enjoyed seeing bra and panties martial arts and tumbling. I just figured it went without saying.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
I know that Miller has pretty much lost the plot since DK2, but he did define today's Batman. We have a lot to thank him for, really, if only for Year One and DKR.

And I seriously doubt Nolan would want to enter into magic, possession or even outer-space given his approach to Begins, so I think Catwoman would be in very safe hands.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax