Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I agree with you up to bold text. And I do agree that intelligence, homland security, and defense are all certainly paramount in this whole thing. But without active efforts to take the fight to them, we essentially just become sitting ducks, waiting for them to find holes in our security. Terrorism as an action of killing people in order to spread fear is not something you can wipe out, obviously. But the organizations and figureheads can be removed, and the governments that support them deposed. The idea isn't to destroy every last possibility of terrorism but to make sure that they don't have an organized network backing them--and espcially not a sovreign government doing so. If the only terrorists on the planet are ever, as you said, 2 or 3 nutcases sitting in their mother's basement, then we're better off than we are today in which they have organized camps and access to military-grade weaponry.
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
They also hate us because of the fucked up things we have done to them over the years. Stop buying into the propaganda.
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
No, not all the terrorists who hijacked planes were from Afghanistan, but they were TRAINED in Afghanistan and the organization that planned the attacks was based there, and supported by the Afghani government at the time. (Remeber them guys, the Taliban?) A terrorist plot to smuggle explosives onto planes destined for the States was foiled today in England. Most of the would-be bombers were British-born, and there are undoubtedly training facilities and meeting places in the UK. Bin Laden went to University in England. Should America attack them too?
I was specifically talking about the 9-11 hijackers, not all terrorists.
It's also impossible. 'Al Queda', the name on everyone's lips, is not a nice organised gang hanging out at a HQ ready to be negotiated with or attacked or captured or stopped. They are a web of loosely or not-even connected cells ranging from highly organised terrorist groups to groups of 2 or 3 nutcases plotting in their mother's basement. I suppose in a way it's true to call Bin Laden their leader, but he is not a leader in a George Bush ay or even a Hitler way, he is more like a figurehead, an almost mythical scapegoat. Most of these terrorists blowing shit up have never met him, have never been to Afghanistan, have never been trained by anyone, they just took it upon themselves to do this shit. It's a cancer that is out of control. The idea of Al Queda as a tangible and defeatable enemy is an illusion. So they can't be negotiated with, and they can't be beaten either. I think the best offensive would be to tighten up home security, multiply intelligence effots, and basically just defend. You cannot wipe out terrorism.
No, not all the terrorists who hijacked planes were from Afghanistan, but they were TRAINED in Afghanistan and the organization that planned the attacks was based there, and supported by the Afghani government at the time. (Remeber them guys, the Taliban?) A terrorist plot to smuggle explosives onto planes destined for the States was foiled today in England. Most of the would-be bombers were British-born, and there are undoubtedly training facilities and meeting places in the UK. Bin Laden went to University in England. Should America attack them too?
I was specifically talking about the 9-11 hijackers, not all terrorists.
It's also impossible. 'Al Queda', the name on everyone's lips, is not a nice organised gang hanging out at a HQ ready to be negotiated with or attacked or captured or stopped. They are a web of loosely or not-even connected cells ranging from highly organised terrorist groups to groups of 2 or 3 nutcases plotting in their mother's basement. I suppose in a way it's true to call Bin Laden their leader, but he is not a leader in a George Bush ay or even a Hitler way, he is more like a figurehead, an almost mythical scapegoat. Most of these terrorists blowing shit up have never met him, have never been to Afghanistan, have never been trained by anyone, they just took it upon themselves to do this shit. It's a cancer that is out of control. The idea of Al Queda as a tangible and defeatable enemy is an illusion. So they can't be negotiated with, and they can't be beaten either. I think the best offensive would be to tighten up home security, multiply intelligence effots, and basically just defend. You cannot wipe out terrorism.
I agree with you up to bold text. And I do agree that intelligence, homland security, and defense are all certainly paramount in this whole thing. But without active efforts to take the fight to them, we essentially just become sitting ducks, waiting for them to find holes in our security. Terrorism as an action of killing people in order to spread fear is not something you can wipe out, obviously. But the organizations and figureheads can be removed, and the governments that support them deposed. The idea isn't to destroy every last possibility of terrorism but to make sure that they don't have an organized network backing them--and espcially not a sovreign government doing so. If the only terrorists on the planet are ever, as you said, 2 or 3 nutcases sitting in their mother's basement, then we're better off than we are today in which they have organized camps and access to military-grade weaponry.
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
They also hate us because of the fucked up things we have done to them over the years. Stop buying into the propaganda.
I'm not buying into propaganda, YIYF. They say as much themselves. They call us 'the Great Satan' for crying out loud. You say we've done some 'fucked up' things to them, but that logic doesn't hold up to history. France and England and Germany all did some pretty attrocious things to each other throughout their history, but they've learned to move on and join the modern world. That's the problem the terrorists have. They are bound to a past full of bloodshed and violence, and won't, or maybe can't let go of it. They'd rather kill us than let go of the past and move on. And they use a faith (or, as some would say, an interpretation thereof) as a justifcation for their unbridled hatred of us.