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How the prequels should’ve played out: — Page 2

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Oh, and to atone for my continuance of the derail ... I will say that I agree almost wholeheartedly with canofhumdingers' comments re the ESB lightsaber duel.

The thing that wrecks it for me, and wrecks the Force for me in general, is all that wonderful control Vader exhibits over the entire duel is mocked and made pointless when he reveals that, at any time, he can simply start throwing brick-a-brak around with his telekenesis. Pfft, why have duels at all?


Sorry, but I hate the telekenesis aspect of the Force that was grafted onto it for Empire Strikes Back. Kinda makes things a little too easy, if Jedi have to power to move all objects at will. What would they need lightsabers for? Or any other skill for that matter? It's too easy, and too cheesy. Personally, I'd like a little less Carrie in my Star Wars.



But I guess that's just me.


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Originally posted by: Obi JeewhyenQ]

Heheh, I think another perfect TV- to-movie translation was way-back-when with Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. The absolute essence of the TV show translated to the big screen, and never achieved again despite a slew of subsequent movies.

Interestingly, the New Beverly Theater here in L.A. is running "Wrath of Khan" and "Serenity" as a double feature later this month. I'm going.

"Kahn" was on TV the other night- I've always loved that movie. I'm not a big Star Trek fan, but that was a great film. I'd love to see it on the big screen.

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Oh, and to atone for my continuance of the derail ... I will say that I agree almost wholeheartedly with canofhumdingers' comments re the ESB lightsaber duel.

The thing that wrecks it for me, and wrecks the Force for me in general, is all that wonderful control Vader exhibits over the entire duel is mocked and made pointless when he reveals that, at any time, he can simply start throwing brick-a-brak around with his telekenesis. Pfft, why have duels at all?


Sorry, but I hate the telekenesis aspect of the Force that was grafted onto it for Empire Strikes Back. Kinda makes things a little too easy, if Jedi have to power to move all objects at will. What would they need lightsabers for? Or any other skill for that matter? It's too easy, and too cheesy. Personally, I'd like a little less Carrie in my Star Wars.



But I guess that's just me.


.


Interesting. & i found that to be a great show of the total command of the force Vader had &, the telekinesis aspect seemed like a natural progression of the force to me. PLus it makes the duel that much more intense. After Vader has totally owned luke in the duel, he really pours on the heat, revealing that he doesn't even need the saber to defeat luke. I think that draws a neat parallel to the concept that, once someone has truely mastered the sword arts, they have mastered themselves & therefore, no longer need the sword. Of course, it's not quite in the same vein as the japanese concept seeing as Vader is evil & that concept is really referring to enlightenment in a good way.

As for the telekenisis negating the need for lightsabers, i don't think that's necessarily true. Take, as an example, the jedi knight video games. you can do some pretty amazing force-feats, but you can't do them all at once, or forever. you have mana, which is essentially "force stamina" the more intense the force action, the more of this "stamina meter" you use & the longer you have to wait for it to recharge before using it again. That sort of how i always envisoned using the force, even before those games came out. You can't do everything all the time. the force is a source of energy, & just like our physical body, you can only do so much for so long with it before you need to rest & recuperate. &, just like our physical body, the more you train in the force & the more you "work out" (for lack of a better phrase) with it, the stronger you become & the more you can do before giving out.

edit: this is also why i feel yoda should never be seen with a lightsaber!! He has reached such a high level of "oneness" with the force that he essentially IS the ultimate samurai. He has transcended the need for physical weapons.
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Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
edit: this is also why i feel yoda should never be seen with a lightsaber!! He has reached such a high level of "oneness" with the force that he essentially IS the ultimate samurai. He has transcended the need for physical weapons.


Amen. And the same goes for Palpatine, but I don't think it's quite an "enlightened" state so much as a too important to bother with fighting. Am I the only person who finds it weird that Palpatine didn't have guards stationed when Mace and the others showed up. He certainly had them in ROTJ, not to mention later in ROTS when Yoda shows up, as useless as they were.

EDIT: But I don't mind the telekenesis thing as long as it's someone really powerful using it. If every Jedi, including Luke and Ben, started whipping out telekenesis of large objects during fights all the time, that would be different. But, you know, minor things, like drawing a small, unfixed object like a lightsaber back to them is okay by me.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Part of me agrees and part of me doesn't. Like I said, Serenity loses part of its charm by not being simple. Suddenly the characters are stage center in a "fight to save the universe" kind of plotline rather than getting a job and staying out of trouble, which were some of the dichtoms that Joss Whedon mentioned on Firefly bonus materials. Plus, the sci-fi elements were much stronger than in the show. We have ion clouds, love bots, the Maidenhead bar. But I think it works as a movie. And it works even better for fans of the show, which is for whom this movie was made. I mean, I know it made me excited and nervous for the crew to suddenly be involved in matters that were much more important than you ever would have wanted them to be involved with. And this is a show that got pummeled before it could tell its story, so I think the fans were very much interested in having things resolved and explained. Yes, it would have been better had they not had to deal with all of that stuff, but I feel that it had to be done to wrap things up. And if the idiots at Fox hadn't cancelled it, then the story could have taken its time like it needed to be done. But I think it's a worthy trade-off.

I'll easily agree that it was a worthy trade-off, but not one that I believe was needed. Not every sci-fi story needs to be a gigantic epic or psychogical/horror/survival thriller to be successful. I enjoyed the flashy special effects and the story elements that went into Serenity and I enjoyed seeing them played out in some way, but the presentation in Serenity felt more forced than it should have been. Like the characters were more doing what they were doing because some "agent" was hunting them and because they had no other choice. (What happened to the creepy agents with the blue gloves?!)

Serenity was a good film, and a worthy conclusion to many of Firefly's mysterious plot elements, but it was not as good as the show it sprang from and I believe it could have been better. Having a more down to earth plot in place of the conclusions and large scale plot elements would have been a worthier trade-off in my mind as a fan of the show and as a person who enjoys well-made entertainment.


Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Originally posted by: TiptupHeh, the only tv-to-movie transition that has ever practiced my ideas (that I know of anyways) was Cowboy Bebop the movie. ... It was perfect way to translate the real feeling of the show.


Heheh, I think another perfect TV- to-movie translation was way-back-when with Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. The absolute essence of the TV show translated to the big screen, and never achieved again despite a slew of subsequent movies.


You're right. Wrath of Khan was a pretty sweet transition, but it didn't have to carry as much baggage as a Serentiy did. Also, in terms of Star Trek movies, my second favorite (after Khan) is Star Trek: Insurrecton, which I believe also captured the feeling of the television show very well (though more TNG that OS).

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup

Like the characters were more doing what they were doing because some "agent" was hunting them and because they had no other choice. (What happened to the creepy agents with the blue gloves?!)


I haven't read them myself, but I'm pretty sure the fate of the "Hands of Blue" guys was expounded upon in the Serenity comics that take place in between the series and the movie. Also... Lawrence Dobson comes back! Go figure!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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There were Firefly comics? Written by Joss Whedon? Hmm, sounds enticing.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Not to really defend the Prequels because they are far from flawless (then again neither are the Originals, no film is, they are just "preferred") but half the problem with the Prequels was that gap of time where it was how people "wanted the prequels to play out" instead of "how they actually did" and ultimately you could say that no matter what they were destined for failure atleast in one major groups eyes....just turns out that major group is actually the majority. You have to admit, atleast half of the reason the Prequels failed was due to the enormous expectations riding on each films shoulders. The other half of course....possibly either reasons lend to unsatisfaction because of expectations and/or poor direction/dialogue/effects/what have you choices through-out the films.
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/7823/starwarssuppersmallerxx5.jpg
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
There were Firefly comics? Written by Joss Whedon? Hmm, sounds enticing.


Yeah, I wish I could find them. And, technically, they're Serenity comics. And they were written by Joss Whedon, so they are considered canonical. I only know a little about them, as I don't want to spoil them for myself, but they include things like the departure of Inara and Book and a reappearance by Badger as well as the other stuff I mentioned.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yeppers. That's it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.