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If Star Wars flopped....

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Now just kinda go with me on this one. It popped into my head at work very randomly.

What if Star Wars, being the relatively independent film that it was at the time, tanked upon it's release? The second I thought about it, I started imagining how my life, in whatever way, would be different. Granted it would most likely become a cult classic of sorts but imagine all the things on each of your lives that would be different. Imagine if there never was:

an Empire Strikes Back or ROTJ - sequels possibly, but nothing in the vein of the actual sequels and probably really not good

Revisions - this site wouldn't exist, few of you would know each other, GL might have possibly moved on to become a respectable individual

EU - very very few books, games, toys (this seems unimaginable to me)

Prequels - meh...

No fighting for a decent DVD release of this film. It would get standard treatment (for an old cult classic with no real demand)

I know I missed a lot of things here. Let's try to get a list going of what things in your life or the world would be significantly different if SW flopped and history was changed. (this is also why time travel disturbs me)

ummm....discuss?

Hey look, a bear!

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As GL goes, without the encroaching bloat of his...uh, wallet, I can almost guarantee he would have made more good films. His inability to insulate himself from his success has made him a worse filmmaker.

I'd like to think I'd love SW none the less. Maybe without the hype from it's blockbuster status, I wouldn't have ever heard of it.

Of course, I wouldn't have known the difference in this alternate universe, but there is some really good/great EU I would have missed out on - KOTOR, Rogue Squadron, The Bounty Hunter Wars, the Han Solo trilogy, "Cocktails in the Cantina", role playing...that never would have come to pass.

Much of recent SW has been an affront to the long-time fans, but in my view the alternative is worse. I like the SW universe, warts and all.

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I have said this more than once. If SW had flopped, it would be known as an obscure and laughable sci-fi film form the 70s and GL would be directing porn. But then again, for it to flop it should have been a DIFFERENT movie. For it to flop, the movie should be bad.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I can't see the possibility of it ever having become an outright bomb, as they hyped it enough at SF cons from 1976 onward to practically guarantee that crowd would show up opening day. IIRC, Lucas intended "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" to be the sequel if Star Wars was moderately successful. It would be interesting if the script version of that ever showed up.
I can't see George doing skin flicks, but maybe he would have directed American Graffitti II personally or gone up the river to help his pal Francis out with that war movie of his.
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Where were you in '77?

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Well firstly Star Wars was not some low-budget independant film. Lucas has created this misconception through the years. It was a medium to high budget studio picture.

I don't believe it could have flopped, simply because there are enough sci-fi fans in 1977 who would have gone and saw anything called "Star Wars" that a worst-case scenario would be about $5-8 million domestically, which when you account for overseas sales would just barely make its money back. In this case, i believe Lucas could have at least gotten to the meeting phase with Fox to discuss doing his planned low-budget sequel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which the studio would have green-lit with about a $5-8 million budget, and perhaps some changes demanded to ensure more commericiality. Probably meaning more romance and maybe a shirtless Luke. This film would probably just be able to make its money back as well, but then Lucas would probably be tired of doing silly sci fi flicks and would probably decided not to do a third film. He had already developed Raiders of the Lost Ark with Phillip Kaufman by then, and had booked his 1977 vacation to Hawaii before the first Star Wars was released, meaning his partnership with Speilberg would still be forged on that fateful trip. Which meant that following the relatively-unsuccessful sequel to the relatively-unsuccessful Star Wars he would still get rich with Raiders of the Lost Ark. After that, with more wealth and power he would probably try to make the third contractual Star Wars film with the budget he wanted, and make a high-budget and probably successful Star Wars III that again would be a stand-alone fun adventure film like the first two, and it would probably be pretty successful.

After that, who knows--maybe he would settle down into a producer role like he did for a while, raise his family with his wife. He would probably try to return to directing in the late 80's, probably with a more esoteric film like THX 1138, which of course would not do well, and would probably live a relatively comfortable life making these types of films, with income from the two successful Indiana Jones sequels keeping him financially secure. Meanwhile the Star Wars trilogy would develop a cult following, and maybe in the late 90's FOX would return to do one more installment after all the fan demand and CGI advancement, perhaps with or perhaps without Lucas involved. This film would probably be fairly successful as well, and would probably spawn reknewed interest into the cult series from the 70's, perhaps leading to yet another sequel or even an attempted television series. After a few milks from the cash cow people would move on to the next thing and the series would be remembered only by its cult fan base, and Lucas would probably be retired by then.

Very interest what-if.
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What is "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" about?


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Originally posted by: Marvolo
What is "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" about?

The story takes place between SW and ESB. It was written by Alan Dean Foster, and the cover art was done by Ralph McQuarrie. I haven't read it for many years, but I remember it was pretty good:

"Luke Skywalker expected trouble when he volunteered to follow Princess Leia on her mission to Circarpous to enlist their Rebel underground in the battle against the empire. But the farm boy from Tatooine hadn't counted on an unscheduled landing in the swamplands of Mimban...hadn't counted on any of the things they would find on that strange planet.

Hidden on this planet was the Kaiburr crystal, a mysterious gem that would give the one who possessed it such powers over the Force that they would be all but invincible. In the wrong hands, the crystal could be deadly. So Luke had to find this treasure and find it fast.

Accompanied by R2-D2 and C-3PO - his faithful droids - Luke and the Princess set out for the Temple of Pomojema...and a confrontation deep beneath the surface of an alien world with the most fearsome villian in the galaxy!" (from the back cover)
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/66/150px-Splinter_of_the_Minds_Eye.jpg

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I've said this before, because I know this topic has been discussed before, but if Star Wars had been a flop, it would be a very well-thought-of cult classic today, probably with midnight showings in every city. It would never have had a "special edition", and it would have had an anamorphic DVD release 5 years ago.

Star Wars wouldn't have had to have been bad to have been a flop, plenty of good movies have flopped. It didn't flop because the planets were in proper alignment that week, and George Lucas was fortunte enough to have tons of comic book, sci-fi and fantasy fans (the same one's he's giving the finger to now) spread news about the film via word-of-mouth.

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If it flopped, Lucas still had American Graffiti under his belt-that was a huge hit. Based on that, he still could have either made Raiders or raised the dough for that low-budget Star Wars 2, since he made a point of getting the sequel rights. That was the days of Planet of the Apes, where the sequels actually got cheaper.
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Star Wars would have flopped if it had been a worse film, but as it wasn't. I figure my life would not have been as interested in sci-fi as it has been for many years now. In fact, a lot of sci-fi franchises that exist now would not have been made or have had the same levels of support.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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The worst thing to happen to SW was it became too popular, and Lucas catered to a mass audience instead of his intended audience. If it had been a cult audience of diehards instead of a mass audience, Lucas would have never made enough money to start Lucasfilm, and he would have made the sequels through the studios and worried less about merchandising and the bottom line like he did with ROTJ.

ROTJ is the beginning of SW becoming too popular as Lucas tries to please everyone including little kids like me, instead of just doing what he did in ESB: Make the story he wanted and if fans come along for the ride, thats great.

If SW was just a cult hit, there wouldn't have been prequel trilogy, because it wouldn't have made huge money for Lucas. Lucas said to Charlie Rose in Sept 2004 and I will never forget this quote, "In the early 90's the marketing team at Lucasfilm presented me scenario's if I made the PT, and how much money it would make. I had to make a choice, make these three films and make enough money to never be dependent on any studio in the future, or push SW aside for good, and just make the movies I really want."

Guys, it was all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and that is why he compromised the quality of the films for short term success to get the mass audience and the little kiddies in the theaters instead of his original intended audience.
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Perhaps it was Lucas' desire to build his own studio and be independant that caused him to start cheapening the series around Jedi (which I still believe was very good despite being very straightforward), but that excuse doesn't transate to the PT where his dreams have already been achieved. Plus, he was still making a lot of money going the more artistic route (ESB), just not as much. I believe he's just greedy and always wants the most money in exchange for the least effort.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I think zombie nailed it.

As for me, I wouldn't own nearly as much Star Wars merchandise as I do now. I'd probably still own the toys that came out after the first movie (assuming they would've made any), but probably none after that. No figures, books, statues, comics, etc, etc because they simply wouldn't exist. Instead, I'd have a house full of Lord of the Rings items (I didn't read the books until just before the movies came out, but I was instantly hooked). I'd still be a huge Sci-Fi fan, but I obviously wouldn't be able to say my favorite character is Yoda (it'd be either Luke or Han in that case) and I wouldn't be a huge fan of Jedi and Jedi lore.

So other than having a lot more money (or having spent it on a different franchise), I don't think I'd be much different than I am today. Aside from my vast collection of Star Wars items, my life and career weren't as affected by the movie. I'm an IT Manager with a passion for all things computers, so that wouldn't have changed anything. My wardrobe obviously wouldn't be made up of Star Wars shirts though
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Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Wow, imagine all the things that would be different. Look at our pop culture and how much Star Wars has influenced it. You can see it in so many movies from E.T. - Toy Story 2. Watch the credits to ANY (excluding foreign and independant films) movie and you are going to see at least one of "Skywalker Sound" "Industrial Light and Magic" and even if you don't see the first two, more likely than not "THX" is going to pop up. Not too likely any of those would have come about if it hadn't been for the success of Star Wars. Walk into any Wal-Mart or Toys R Us or even just about any store really, and since 1995 till now you are almost certian to find the name "Star Wars" somewhere in that store. This is not true with Lord of the Rings or anything else.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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In a way, movies today would be pretty much more artistic-focused than mindless blockbusters, don't you think? Movies would be focused on violence or plot twists to get an audience. Special Effects would not be an industry of its own. Also, if SW wasn't a hit, there would be Star Trek Phase 2 on TV in the late 70s... Probably no Star Trek movies until recently, as part of the "old series becoming movies" hype.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I don't believe this crap about "Star Wars killed the movies." Star Wars just happened to be the film that kick-started this thread--and certainly accelerated it--but it would have happened anyway. Jaws and Rocky had been thrilling audiences with uplifting summertime films the consequtive years before Star Wars, and Heaven's Gate, Days of Heaven, The Sorceror, New York New York and Raging Bull killed the American New Wave before the "blockbuster" explosion of the 80's ever happened. Star Wars made it happen faster but it was already in place. I think MTV is much more responsible than Star Wars. The "blockbuster" explosion didn't really occur until around 1984 or so with Terminator and Rambo, and the "80's action film" combined with the shortening attention span due to MTV and television are the primary factors IMO. Most people forget that the whole 80's thing didn't really hit until the later half of the decade (1984-1989) with the endless slasher sequels, Arnold and Stallone pictures, and the stupidity and deviousness of Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer (Flashdance, Top Gun, Beverly Hills Cop, Days of Thunder) who were the ones responsible for converting the industry from director-oriented dramas to producer-oriented action films. Lucas and Speilberg paved the way but they did so accidentally--Jaws and Star Wars are terrific, character-oriented films, and Rocky is a fairly gritty drama by todays standards. Lets not forget--it was us, the audiences, who ultimately took power away from the so-called New Hollywood and into the hands of people like Joel Silver.
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If Star Wars had flopped, I'd say that going to movie theaters would have died out within a decade. At the time, Hollywood was bent toward gritty realism. The fantasy Star Wars offered completely turned that around overnight, helping to establish the blockbuster that Jaws started a few years earlier. This was a major contributing factor to the success of Star Wars. It came out at just the right time. It is possible that another fantastic film would have filled the void, but who can say? Nearly all of the fantastic films that were made after Star Wars were made because of Star Wars. If it weren't for Star Wars and its box office, most studios would have been to skeptical of such fare's ability to make any money. As such, public interest in movies would start to wane and movies would gross less and less and eventually it would all but cease to be. Like Drive-ins. There are still a few around. I know of two near where I live, if an hour and a half drive is close. But they aren't as popular as they used to be. Movie theatres would shrink down to those art houses where people would go to see movies on the big screen as a curiosity

And let's not forget the mechandising. Fox simply gave Lucas the merchandising rights, since they had lost so much on Dr Dolittle a few years earlier. Movies has been exploited before with merchandising tie-ins, but I think it's safe to say that Star Wars was merchandised like no film before it.
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I read somewhere recently that a handful of new drive-ins have actually been built. They are becoming popular with families with a carload of noisy kids to deal with, and smokers who can't go two hours without a puff.
Whoever at Fox let Lucas have all the merchandising rights must have overlooked the fact that Planet of the Apes merchandise did fairly well.
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Where were you in '77?

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I saw Revenge of the Sith at a drive in. Nuff said.

As for the theory that movies would have "died out" that is preposterous--the 1970's were the most profitable and popular years in Hollywood history. Each year brought a bigger success than the previous year and Star Wars was the pinnacle of this. The 1970's were when movies became a cultural thing, a pop thing. You had Coppola becoming the first director to be paid over $1 million dollars, you had movies regualarly grossing over $30-$50 million, which was a big deal, and you had the first series of film to break the $100 million mark, like Godfather and American Graffitti. In the 1960's Hollywood almost died out, quite literally, as theater attendance reached record lows, Jack Warner and Darrly Zanuck sold their studios, and all that was being made was Fred Astair musicals and crap like Cleopatra which practically destroyed FOX studios. The American New Wave literally saved Hollywood, and it was they who brought movies into the limelight and into the cultural phenomenon that we know them as today. This is why American Graffiti, Godfather and Jaws were able to make so much money--after Easy Rider, the success of French Connection, Chinatown, MASH, Five Easy Pieces and Exorcist, among others, built up movies into a popular event, and thus the first of the blockbusters were able to become so successful. Star Wars didn't "save" the movies--it capitalised on them!