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.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 31

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Regarding the question of Superbit.
"No I think he means: Will it be an overpriced recycled transfer marketed for know-nothing idiots?"

That would be Lucasfilm's upcoming release.

Is there a way to have replys go earlier in the thread where you want them to.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Both Citizen and Moth3r used Pal THX laserdiscs for their captures so the info in italics is not correct. The '95 covers in Europe and Japan were different than the Faces art in the US so the person might have assumed no Faces art meant no THX release.
The X0 site explained the difference between CLV and CAV.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Originally posted by: Grinder
Originally posted by: Mielr
Isn't it also true that a LD set equivalent in quality to the NTSC "Definitive" or "Faces" sets, was never released in the PAL format?


The '95 PAL releases are better than the Faces set, but the DC is much sharper than both. The PAL discs have some advantages though, despite being less sharp. The starfields as a key example.


I believe the starfield in the 1993/95 NTSC transfer suffered much from a worn print and the low vertical resolution of letterboxed NTSC, and also from the crude DVNR filter that mistook many of the stars for noise and almost smeared them out completely.

On the '95 PAL transfer the starfields especially in the first scenes are much better, this is because (well obviously) PAL has more vertical resolution, but also (probably) because the colourist (telecine-operator) zoomed the first scenes 25% or so, and thus making the stars slightly bigger so they survived the DVNR filtering.


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"The '95 PAL releases are better than the Faces set, but the DC is much sharper than both."

The DC and Faces are from the same transfer, but in addition to having many glitches and too much post-processing added, the DC is also an earlier transfer. Don't let the name fool you - the Faces set has the advantage of lessons learned from the DC set.

And both sets have the final battle in CAV.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi "The '95 PAL releases are better than the Faces set, but the DC is much sharper than both."

The DC and Faces are from the same transfer, but in addition to having many glitches and too much post-processing added, the DC is also an earlier transfer. Don't let the name fool you - the Faces set has the advantage of lessons learned from the DC set.

And both sets have the final battle in CAV.


The difference between CLV and CAV also depends somewhat on the LD-player, the video signal is usually processed by different 'analog' noise filters (or noise coring), the CLV signal passes through both high and low frequency filtering, CAV passes only through the low frequency part. And how well these filters are implemented in the player will of course affect the quality.


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1) If "Faces" has less glitches, post-processing and "the advantage of lessons learned from the DC set", why is X0 using the DC?

2) What is you guys opinion on the color correction on DC/Faces vs. pre-THX colors vs. original colors?
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Originally posted by: blitter
and in fact still has a copy of the 70mm stereo mix he ripped straight to cassettes ) but did not know of that many efforts being made, beyond the mono mix, to clean and restore them.

Going off on a slight tangent here, is the X0 DVD really the appropriate place to consider including as many audio mixes as possible? Seems to me that would leave less data that could be better used for encoding the video.

Thank you for saying that, that is exactly what was running through my mind when I heard Zion ask what we wanted as far as audio.
I still don't understand this - can the available space on a disc always be dedicated to improving the video, or is there a point where it literally makes no difference due to some magic number being reached that I wouldn't know about?

Or...3rd option, does it become a question of individual perception because the difference in quality, while technically there, may not be noticeable by most people (if anyone)?

The reason I'm wondering is, depending on answer to the question, could having 2 X0 discs (one with stereo mix, one with mono mix) be justifiable?
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Not to mention that one of the biggest CAV features - freeze-frame - is possible with newer LD players, so even if you could see the minor playback differences between CLV and CAV, it's hardly the advantage people make it out to be.

And switching/flipping 9 LDs is a bitch.

"1) If "Faces" has less glitches, post-processing and "the advantage of lessons learned from the DC set", why is X0 using the DC?"

That was the set that had been captured prior to the X0 Project's genesis, and another capture by that LD owner is unlikely. It's sill superior to most of the other sets, but my personal preference is the Faces set.

"Thank you for saying that, that is exactly what was running through my mind when I heard Zion ask what we wanted as far as audio.
I still don't understand this - can the available space on a disc always be dedicated to improving the video, or is there a point where it literally makes no difference due to some magic number being reached that I wouldn't know about"

I guess you weren't hear when the actual creator of the TR47 set was posting here. Anyways, there doesn't have to be one, single X0 release. We've talked about a possible "comparison" version, as least with the audio.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Alright, here they are, straight captures.

DC:
http://www.student.ru.nl/tomdriessen/dc.jpg

'95 PAL:
http://www.student.ru.nl/tomdriessen/95pal.jpg

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

I guess you weren't hear when the actual creator of the TR47 set was posting here. Anyways, there doesn't have to be one, single X0 release. We've talked about a possible "comparison" version, as least with the audio.

OK cool, I think I got my answer. I definitely would like to be able to watch X0 with both stereo and mono mixes, but I'm obsessive enough to cringe when I think about compromising the quality even a little
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Originally posted by: Tomland Flash
I still don't understand this - can the available space on a disc always be dedicated to improving the video, or is there a point where it literally makes no difference due to some magic number being reached that I wouldn't know about?
There is such a point: when the length of the movie multiplied by the maximum bitrate allowed by the DVD format produces a figure below the size of the media. However, even when you reach that point, your video is still compressed. On whether it is noticeable or not, opinion is divided.

Grinder, which LD players did you use?
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The 909 on both, via composite.

EDIT: That's the Pioneer DVL-909 of course. Still have to get the CLD-2950 to a service center. Now you can see why the PAL transfer needed brightness/contrast/saturation correction

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Those are not straight captures, Grinder. They can't be, since they're the same size. So how (and why) did you resize them?

Also, did you correct for the setup (+7 IRE, as I recall) on NTSC discs?
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

The DC and Faces are from the same transfer, but in addition to having many glitches and too much post-processing added, the DC is also an earlier transfer. Don't let the name fool you - the Faces set has the advantage of lessons learned from the DC set.

And both sets have the final battle in CAV.
Not on my SW "faces" LDs- ALL 3 sides are CLV (same for my ESB and ROTJ "faces" sets).

Now, my '97 SE LD set has a CAV/CLV mix, but my '95 "faces" LDs are definitely all CLV.

Originally posted by: Grinder
I don't think it's solely the fact that the Faces set is CLV, that is responsible for the lower image quality. Though I wouldn't know exactly what is. So you have them yourself, don't you notice any difference?

I can't say that I have seen any difference. However, I only have one LD player (a Pioneer CLD-D703), so I can't do an A/B comparision. Also, I prefer the "faces" set due to the fact that they only have 2 side breaks, and show no sign of laser-rot (which my DC set does- on ROTJ, and there are some suspicious speckles on the other 2 films as well), so I hardly watch the DC set except for the bonus features.

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"Not on my SW "faces" LDs- ALL 3 sides are CLV (same for my ESB and ROTJ "faces" sets).

Now, my '97 SE LD set has a CAV/CLV mix"

Hmmmm.....I just checked, and you're right. I guess I got the two confused.

My bad.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Is the X0 Project releasing the whole Trilogy or just STARWARS? And what is the ETA for the first disc. I can't wait for this set to hit the scene. Good times are here again...

It’s Not the Years, It’s the Mileage.

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The latest I think is that they hope to have Star Wars finished before September, but feel it is unwise to give any actual expected dates.

I don't envy the X0 team and all the work that they have got themselves into, but I do respect them and I am really looking forward to hopefully seeing the end products (I'm sure there's lots of scope for many things to come out of this work).
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Those are not straight captures, Grinder. They can't be, since they're the same size. So how (and why) did you resize them?

Also, did you correct for the setup (+7 IRE, as I recall) on NTSC discs?


I only resized the PAL image to NTSC resolution, for comparison's sake. But what I meant was that they don't have any filters applied, or corrections done. I didn't correct anything, just hooked the player up and made screens in virtualdub, should I have?

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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I think it would be equally fair (or unfair?) to resize the NTSC to PAL resolution, and adjust VDub so that PAL looks good first. Then I think you'd find that the NTSC version looks a little softer, and perhaps washed out.

The setup of +7 IRE (or is it +7.5?) on US-spec NTSC means that black is at 16, rather than 0 like it is for PAL. So if there is no adjustment made up front, PAL will generally look darker than NTSC. So if NTSC looks good, PAL will look too dark. If PAL looks good, though, then NTSC will likely look blown out a bit.

It's a tricky thing, comparing apples and oranges!
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Originally posted by: Zion
I wouldn't bet the farm on it. And to answer your next question, no I can't tell you what a more realistic date would be. It could be done on September 12th, and it could be done on December 12th. It's just hard to say at this point.


I understand completely - that wasn't my next question, actually. I already know better.

Just keep up the good work! Thanks for all you do!
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Super Mario Bros. - The Wicked Star Story
"Ah, the proverbial sad sack with a wasted wish."
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XØ, did you receive my donation? Don't know if it went through