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Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's: — Page 2
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Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
I doubt Lucas is letting the original elements deteriorate. They're probably nice and safe in his vaults. After all, they were restored and used for the SEs. He's just keeping them for himself.
Film deteriorates even in ideal storage conditions. If he hasn't made an effort to make preservation copies of all of the OOT material, we're screwed.I doubt Lucas is letting the original elements deteriorate. They're probably nice and safe in his vaults. After all, they were restored and used for the SEs. He's just keeping them for himself.
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Thanks for the kick in the butt, Mielr. I emailed Jim Ward a while back about the non-anamorphic thing but haven't made multiple attempts until tonight. All we can do is make our voices heard, now with correspondence or later by withholding our money. Like a lot of us fans are, I'm pretty burned out on worrying about what Lucas will or won't do, so my email was pretty much just polite brass tacks. I can't get that emotionally involved any more.
We should probably keep up the contact. Here's what I wrote to Lynne Hayle, Jim Ward, Fox Studios and the others that Mielr provided the addresses for:
"Dear Lucasfilm and Fox Studios,
Please, reconsider the plans for the upcoming September DVD release of the original theatrical versions of the Star Wars Trilogy, three of the most popular and beloved movies in film history.
It would be wonderful if they could be enjoyed in the industry-standard anamorphic format that maximizes the presentation regardless of the final screen on which the DVDs are displayed.
Sincerely,
Michael Banks,
Star Wars Fan"
Nothing flowery; just facts and disappointment.
Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
Film deteriorates even in ideal storage conditions. If he hasn't made an effort to make preservation copies of all of the OOT material, we're screwed.
Thanks for the kick in the butt, Mielr. I emailed Jim Ward a while back about the non-anamorphic thing but haven't made multiple attempts until tonight. All we can do is make our voices heard, now with correspondence or later by withholding our money. Like a lot of us fans are, I'm pretty burned out on worrying about what Lucas will or won't do, so my email was pretty much just polite brass tacks. I can't get that emotionally involved any more.
We should probably keep up the contact. Here's what I wrote to Lynne Hayle, Jim Ward, Fox Studios and the others that Mielr provided the addresses for:
"Dear Lucasfilm and Fox Studios,
Please, reconsider the plans for the upcoming September DVD release of the original theatrical versions of the Star Wars Trilogy, three of the most popular and beloved movies in film history.
It would be wonderful if they could be enjoyed in the industry-standard anamorphic format that maximizes the presentation regardless of the final screen on which the DVDs are displayed.
Sincerely,
Michael Banks,
Star Wars Fan"
Nothing flowery; just facts and disappointment.
I understand, it's easy to get burned out and frustrated, especially when you feel like you don't have a voice. I get very angry when I think about George Lucas, and the fact that he might be allowing the original film elements of the OOT to deteriorate, when he could & should be saving them. I think what he's doing is nothing short of criminal.
Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
Film deteriorates even in ideal storage conditions. If he hasn't made an effort to make preservation copies of all of the OOT material, we're screwed.
With some time, effort, and money, they could be restored to pristeen condition.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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Originally posted by: Mike O
Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
I am.
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
mielr, it's a triple MURDER
Without a doubt.Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
I am.
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
mielr, it's a triple MURDER
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I am.
How many other people? It would be interesting to see how many. Strength in numbers. Times three discs. This waiting game is killing me.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
The disk return should get a degree of official focus on this website if possible.
The disk return should get a degree of official focus on this website if possible.
I've hardly seen Jay at all lately. I wonder what he'd think. I wonder how the petioners would feel. 75,000+ people X 3-6
discs per person is quite a few. I wonder if LFL would get/open the package and Lucas would get the message. I have never ever joined a forum before, but following the non-anamorphic announcement, I felt inclined to support this one and join up. I have a great deal of respect for George Lucas, but I also very much want the OOT on DVD. I just wanted to thank Jay and eveyone involved wit this site. The OOT means a lot to me, and I hope that we can save it. I just don't ever want to come across as some forum jerk either. I wonder, if we work hard enough, if we cann get a restored version of the OOT onto the 30th anniversary boxed set.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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Originally posted by: Mike O
Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.
Honestly, I'd love to have an official, professionally crafted Lucasfilm DVD set, but, if the anamorphic thing doesn't happen, Lucas isn't going to get my money. Why reward him for treating these movies in a sub-industry-standard way?
About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.
If I'm just blinded by working way too long today and by allowing my negative side to come out too much, someone, please, feel free to show me the light that seems to be forever waning at the end of this tunnel.
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Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Honestly, I'd love to have an official, professionally crafted Lucasfilm DVD set, but, if the anamorphic thing doesn't happen, Lucas isn't going to get my money. Why reward him for treating these movies in a sub-industry-standard way?
About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.
But the money isn't the point of all this- the point is to show him WHY we're buying the DVDs (for the OT, NOT the SE), to show him that there IS a demand for the OOT, and that we resent being forced into buying the SE again in order to obtain them.Originally posted by: Tiptup
The disk return should get a degree of official focus on this website if possible.
I've hardly seen Jay at all lately. I wonder what he'd think. I wonder how the petioners would feel. 75,000+ people X 3-6
discs per person is quite a few. I wonder if LFL would get/open the package and Lucas would get the message. I have never ever joined a forum before, but following the non-anamorphic announcement, I felt inclined to support this one and join up. I have a great deal of respect for George Lucas, but I also very much want the OOT on DVD. I just wanted to thank Jay and eveyone involved wit this site. The OOT means a lot to me, and I hope that we can save it. I just don't ever want to come across as some forum jerk either. I wonder, if we work hard enough, if we cann get a restored version of the OOT onto the 30th anniversary boxed set.
I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was. The disk return should get a degree of official focus on this website if possible.
I've hardly seen Jay at all lately. I wonder what he'd think. I wonder how the petioners would feel. 75,000+ people X 3-6
discs per person is quite a few. I wonder if LFL would get/open the package and Lucas would get the message. I have never ever joined a forum before, but following the non-anamorphic announcement, I felt inclined to support this one and join up. I have a great deal of respect for George Lucas, but I also very much want the OOT on DVD. I just wanted to thank Jay and eveyone involved wit this site. The OOT means a lot to me, and I hope that we can save it. I just don't ever want to come across as some forum jerk either. I wonder, if we work hard enough, if we cann get a restored version of the OOT onto the 30th anniversary boxed set.
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Honestly, I'd love to have an official, professionally crafted Lucasfilm DVD set, but, if the anamorphic thing doesn't happen, Lucas isn't going to get my money. Why reward him for treating these movies in a sub-industry-standard way?
About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.
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"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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Originally posted by: generalfrevious
mielr, you said that film deteriorates after a few years- what then is the worst case scenario for the OOT?
Who knows- that's the problem. I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I know that the Eastman/Kodak film used in the 1970s was unusually unstable, and started to fade within 5 years (the piece of film in my signature is a good example- it's a frame from a 70mm release print of Star Wars from '77). mielr, you said that film deteriorates after a few years- what then is the worst case scenario for the OOT?
There was one particular stock that was used on Star Wars and other films from that era called "CRI" (color-reversal internegative) stock that was particularly notorious for fading. It was a stock that became a "negative" when exposed to the original camera negative, instead of becoming a positive (hence the "color reversal"), so that release prints could be made directly from it, instead of an additional positive/negative step. This saved a generation in the duplication process, so that the resulting release prints would be one step closer to the camera negatives, and would thus be clearer and less grainy, but- it turned out that the CRI stock faded very quickly. The color-fading problem was discovered in the late 1970s, and Kodak was forced to improve their film stock after 1983 to prevent the problem from happening in the future. Film-makers, upon discovering the problems with the fading film, made back-up copies of their movies on better film stock. George Lucas did the same, I would imagine, but how good the copies are or what condition they're in is the question. When they went to make the SEs, I understand that a lot of the film elements they were going to use were in bad shape, so they had to go back to the original camera negatives (or so we were told) which evidently faded at a slower rate. But, who knows what state the original camera negatives are in now that they've apparently been cannibalized for the SEs, so what remains of the OOT and what kind of shape any remaining prints, or negative dupes is a mystery.
Logically, I would think it would have made sense for them to have restored/preserved ALL of the available footage, before they went ahead and did the SEs, because I'm sure they weren't sure at that early stage what shots were staying in, which were going out, and which old shots would still remain in the film but with a bit of CGI added, etc. (also remember- in the '97 SEs they used that alternate take of Han in the cantina saying "I'll bet you have", and the previously-unreleased Luke/Biggs scene) So- I think probably all of the OOT footage exists- somewhere- even if it's chopped up and/or on a computer hard-drive. But, like everyone else, I'm just guessing.
On a side note - George Lucas (among many other directors) stores his film in a vault in an underground salt mine. The storage conditions are supposed to be ideal (temperature/humidity-wise) and are safe from earthquakes, etc.
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I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was.
We need to do something. This upcoming situation has escalated the battle to save the OOT. I think that a new petition is in order, but the send-back program is interesting as well. And even if Jay does not buy the September release, many will. Its just that everyone here is so passionate, that I only hope that we can do something. By the way, Mielr, thanks very much. You've been very welcoming to me.
About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.
We need to do something. This upcoming situation has escalated the battle to save the OOT. I think that a new petition is in order, but the send-back program is interesting as well. And even if Jay does not buy the September release, many will. Its just that everyone here is so passionate, that I only hope that we can do something. By the way, Mielr, thanks very much. You've been very welcoming to me.
About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.
We won't know until we try. Don't worry, you don't sound like a curmudgeon
. You're just being a realist. But before, it was a waiting game. Now, it seems, that the battle for Helm's Deep (the OOT) is over and the Battle for Middle Earth (a high quality release) is about to begin. [passionate rant] We must fight. Put up signs and posters with the originaltilogy.com logo and a slogan of some sort (I like "Join the rebellion"). Go door to door if necessary. Wouldn't it be great to see Mr. Sylvester's name in Newseek or Time? Recruit as many people as possible. These are far more than films. They are both important cultural artifacts and pieces of many people's lives. The Home Theater Forum, The Digital Bits. They both have OT.com members waiting to happen. A new petition? We must fight! In watching our DVD many years from now would you be willing to trade all these night without a high-quailty trasfer for a chance-a fighting chance-to tell Lucas that may use CGI, bt he will never destroy the trilogy!. One for the Braveheart fans. In all seriousness, we can still win. Mr Sylvester has gotten us this far. With his help, we may still be able to save the situation. [rant over] “What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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Originally posted by: Mike O
We need to do something. This upcoming situation has escalated the battle to save the OOT. I think that a new petition is in order, but the send-back program is interesting as well. And even if Jay does not buy the September release, many will. Its just that everyone here is so passionate, that I only hope that we can do something. By the way, Mielr, thanks very much. You've been very welcoming to me.
I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was.
We need to do something. This upcoming situation has escalated the battle to save the OOT. I think that a new petition is in order, but the send-back program is interesting as well. And even if Jay does not buy the September release, many will. Its just that everyone here is so passionate, that I only hope that we can do something. By the way, Mielr, thanks very much. You've been very welcoming to me.
You're welcome!
I haven't been here in the forums that long myself - only since I found out about the September DVD release. I did visit this site a few years ago, though, to sign the petition. I also sent out a mass-email to all of my friends, asking them to sign the petition and to then forward my email to everyone they knew.I do feel that there is some sort of movement swelling (regarding the sendback idea), and would like to find out from Jay if he's interested in shifting the function of this site in that direction.
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Originally posted by: Mielr
I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was.
Originally posted by: Mike O
We won't know until we try. Don't worry, you don't sound like a curmudgeon. You're just being a realist. But before, it was a waiting game. Now, it seems, that the battle for Helm's Deep (the OOT) is over and the Battle for Middle Earth (a high quality release) is about to begin. [passionate rant] We must fight.
I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was.
Originally posted by: Mike O
We won't know until we try. Don't worry, you don't sound like a curmudgeon
. You're just being a realist. But before, it was a waiting game. Now, it seems, that the battle for Helm's Deep (the OOT) is over and the Battle for Middle Earth (a high quality release) is about to begin. [passionate rant] We must fight. I'd fully be behind another petition, but I won't be giving my money to Lucas for a non-anamorphic, "limited-time-only" DVD set that treats these historical movies as bonus features. This treatment screams that he is only begrudgingly putting the originals out. And not only that, but it amounts to scare-tactics as well. "You better be happy that we're giving them to you at all. Now, pre-order them before there never available again!"
The marketing that his company has done for the SE release has been nothing short of misrepresentation, if not outright lying. Anyone who goes into Best Buy to buy the currently available DVDs will find no indication that the DVDs are anything but the original versions. They are simply labeled as STAR WARS TRILOGY.
It's the attitude that Lucas seems to exude regarding the originals that really has taken a lot of the fun out of being a fan. The illusion of a masterpiece has been shattered, now that the supposed master seems to be only a leader of a team who has produced three movies that he doesn't consider to be his "true vision", aka, not true master works.
Lucas seems to pride himself on being an auteur filmmaker, and, yet, so much of what made his originals so powerful seems to be the creativity of so many others that worked with him. And this creativity, he seems to readily disregard in favor of supplanting it with his own extrremely after-the-fact retooling.
Why won't he graciously accept the fact that the originals are what made him and that people love the versions they grew up with?
As Aldous Huxley, author of the sci-fi and literary classic BRAVE NEW WORLD, said about his most popular work:
"[T]o attempt to patch a faulty work into the perfection it missed at its first execution, to spend one's middle age in trying to mend the artistic sins committed and bequeathed by that different person who was oneself in youth - all this is surely vain and futile."
I won't be paying Lucas for SE ammunition to throw right back at him. I'll be more content to tell my kids, "Not too long ago in a reality not too far away, there existed three of the most magical movies ever made..."
That is, unless of course, they end up on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD, which isn't a possibility too far afield.
It will be interesting to hear how all of this pans out, and I will be sending another round or two of emails to the people in charge telling them that I won't be buying the September release. But, for now, this is the straw that broke the bantha's back.
SW: R.I.P. - 9/12/06
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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Don't give up, it's worth it to keep complaining. The hard part, getting them released at all, is already done-thanks to the complaining. Now that SW is about to die its second death, they'll be selling anything and everything to keep the machine running in the next few years.
Don't give up, it's worth it to keep complaining. The hard part, getting them released at all, is already done-thanks to the complaining. Now that SW is about to die its second death, they'll be selling anything and everything to keep the machine running in the next few years.
I agree. The Prequels are all out now and in a few years, SW won't have anything new and worthy of noting for it to cling to. I do think that once that happens, we will see the OOT on whatever media is popular at that time to bring it back into the public eye and to rehash some of the history for younger generations who weren't around to see all of this nonsense.
I know this doesn't help much for those that don't want to wait any longer, though...
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The marketing that his company has done for the SE release has been nothing short of misrepresentation, if not outright lying. Anyone who goes into Best Buy to buy the currently available DVDs will find no indication that the DVDs are anything but the original versions. They are simply labeled as STAR WARS TRILOGY.
Yes, but we must remember that that is what Lucas wants. The originals "don't exist."
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans.
If this was true, the OUT wouldn't be coming out at all. I'm still surprised to see people taking the best OUT news we've ever had as a signal to give up. I think Mike O has the right approach with his Helm's Deep analogy. It would be nice to have a new petition from this site, for continuity's sake (especially as the site was referenced by LFL when explaining the OUT release). However, Jay's position is (I believe) that the original petition still stands. It would be a lot harder to get as many signatures as last time after September, I think: the quality of the transfer doesn't have the same broad appeal as the films just not being out there at all. Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans.
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Seriously though, the old petition still does stand. Its important for new people to keep signing it too. That doesn't mean additional campaigns shouldn't be promoted alongside it. A SE-disk return from OT fans that actually send a clear message if enough of us take part. Those who believe that this release should be avoided at all costs then simply don't need to take part.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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think Mike O has the right approach with his Helm's Deep analogy.
That was a joke. And thanks very much. Call me Mike. I change my name, but it doesn't appear that the software would allow such a thing.
Do you want a flame war.?
Why do you keep posting your pity party on each thread? You wanna give up, fine, but I for one am willing to wait Lucas out. I'm 23 and healthy. He's 62 and fat. Once he's dead, we'll get our DVDs. Just wait.
That was a joke
. And thanks very much. Call me Mike. I change my name, but it doesn't appear that the software would allow such a thing.There weren't supposed to be Elves at Helm's Deep though. The movie version sucked in comparison to the book.
Do you want a flame war
.? Why do you keep posting your pity party on each thread? You wanna give up, fine, but I for one am willing to wait Lucas out. I'm 23 and healthy. He's 62 and fat. Once he's dead, we'll get our DVDs. Just wait.
Be careful. Lucas could put into his will that the OOT can never be released after his death. Who's to say that we'd have to wait that long anyway? He hasn't said "no with this release." He's said "maybe." Yes, "we have no plans now or in the future to restore the earlier versions." But, "Now we'll find whether people wanted these or wanted the improved versions. It will all come out in the end. And let's not forget "the original versions will never be released on DVD." Never was only a couple of years. Lucas is many things. Stubborn? Yes. Frustrating? Often. Incosistent? Extremely. But stupid? No, and you couldn't convince me for a second. The man has made nine hours of film into one of the most lucrative and profitable franchise in history. If he sees money in the OOT, do you think that he will be able to resist releasing it again? Especially with the 30th anniversary so near. Lucas isn't stupid. If he put a restored anamorrphic version of the OOT on the 30th annivesary boxed and then charged an exhorbitant price for it, he knows people like would pay just to get the OOT.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death