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SUPERMAN RETURNS REVIEW — Page 3

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Well, I saw it again today, and I still enjoyed it.

Still, the fact remains that it has a relatively weak central plot that felt more like an episode of a television series rather than a feature-length film.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Originally posted by: greencapt


For me the one who wins THAT award was Kate Capshaw in 'Temple of Doom'. Sheesh! That film would have worked SO much better for me if I hadn't have had to listen to her shriek and whine through the entire film.


No kidding. The only reason she got that role was because she was doing the director. Still, that movie blowed donkey balls and still got a sequel (which was the best of the 3).

Man, I hope for a Superman Returns Sequel. We've already got a good plot line established and I wanna see how things turn out with the whole love triangle and *spoiler wisper* Upermansay onsay.

For as bad as people are bad mouthing this movie, 75% of the critic reviews have been good. You have to remember that this movie is battling 5 fronts:
1) Bring back to life a dead franchise
2) Remove the stink of the last suck-tacular films that were splashed all over the good name of Superman
3) Bring back the fans of the old movies
4) Bring in new fans to the Superman story (I fall under this one)
5) And to top it all off, this movie is not "Superman Begins." They had to start in the middle of an already developed story and take it from there. Unlike Batman, some doors and options were no longer open to suggestion. Superman had to work with what he was given in Superman II.

And I think it was wonderful. When my cousins come to visit, I might see it a 3rd time. I love it that much.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: greencapt
For me the one who wins THAT award was Kate Capshaw in 'Temple of Doom'. Sheesh! That film would have worked SO much better for me if I hadn't have had to listen to her shriek and whine through the entire film.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I've considered re-editing Temple of Doom but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny

Man, I hope for a Superman Returns Sequel. We've already got a good plot line established and I wanna see how things turn out with the whole love triangle and *spoiler wisper* Upermansay onsay.

For as bad as people are bad mouthing this movie, 75% of the critic reviews have been good. You have to remember that this movie is battling 5 fronts:
1) Bring back to life a dead franchise
2) Remove the stink of the last suck-tacular films that were splashed all over the good name of Superman
3) Bring back the fans of the old movies
4) Bring in new fans to the Superman story (I fall under this one)
5) And to top it all off, this movie is not "Superman Begins." They had to start in the middle of an already developed story and take it from there. Unlike Batman, some doors and options were no longer open to suggestion. Superman had to work with what he was given in Superman II.

And I think it was wonderful. When my cousins come to visit, I might see it a 3rd time. I love it that much.

I'm working on my niece's education by letting her watch I and II, then I hope to take her to Returns. I think she's more excited about Pirates 2 though. *sigh*

I wish my own son was old enough but he isn't. But I'm having a hard enough time trying to convince my wife that he's ready to see The Wizard of Oz. I really look forward to the day that he and I take trips to the theatre to see more than animated fluff. Seeing Star Wars and Superman in their initial theatrical runs with my family is a fond memory and I hope my own son enjoys the movies as much. In this day of commercials, cell phones and rude audiences, I wonder if he'll even care.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I noticed something rather funny in SR that I wonder if anybody else picked up on. When the Daily Planet had its TVs on to the different news reports from around the world, there was a shot of the Eiffel Tower that I could swear came from Superman II. Stamped on the image was "Amateur Footage." This could have been a deliberate dig at Richard Lester. Did anybody else pick up on that?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
5) And to top it all off, this movie is not "Superman Begins." They had to start in the middle of an already developed story and take it from there. Unlike Batman, some doors and options were no longer open to suggestion. Superman had to work with what he was given in Superman II.
Um...

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I'm working on my niece's education by letting her watch I and II, then I hope to take her to Returns. I think she's more excited about Pirates 2 though. *sigh*


Yeah, when my 17, 14, and 13 year old cousins come to visit me they'll most surely want to see a movie in the theater. I will cry if they say they want to see PotC 2 over Superman Returns.

"Uh, sorry guys, but Pirates isn't playing at this theater. Looks like we'll have to go see Superman Returns."
"But...but it says right there on the marque that it's playing in 3 theaters."
"No, no, that's the porno version Prostitutes of the Caribean: Grab my Chests. You don't want to see that."
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny

"No, no, that's the porno version Prostitutes of the Caribean: Grab my Chests. You don't want to see that."


Then again, most of US here would!
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I saw Superman returns last week and, barring disease or disaster, I'm probably going to go see Pirates 2 tomorrow.

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So I hear that the box office performance of Superman Returns is not up to par. I guess now I'll have to see it out of pity for the box office.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

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Kate Bosworth was SO not Lois. Now all three movies will have something amiss in that category, and that's bad cause it's one of the key characters. Lois should've been played by Zooey Deschanel.
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Originally posted by: skye_solo
Kate Bosworth was SO not Lois. Now all three movies will have something amiss in that category, and that's bad cause it's one of the key characters. Lois should've been played by Zooey Deschanel.

I would have liked to have seen Lauren Graham as Lois Lane.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So I hear that the box office performance of Superman Returns is not up to par. I guess now I'll have to see it out of pity for the box office.


I think it's the biggest opening in Warner Bros. history so I wouldn't say it's not up to par. It beat industry expectations and blasted the hell out of (the much superior) Batman Begins.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So I hear that the box office performance of Superman Returns is not up to par. I guess now I'll have to see it out of pity for the box office.


I think it's the biggest opening in Warner Bros. history so I wouldn't say it's not up to par. It beat industry expectations and blasted the hell out of (the much superior) Batman Begins.


Actually if you go to BoxOfficeMojo and look at the number of screens versus the amount earned then you'll see that both films performed about the same- opening take of BB was aprox $12,634 per screen and SR was approx $12,923- so neither was a failure but SR has a much steeper hill to climb to reach profitability. And I really think POTC2 will soon make many movie-goers forget about seeing SR.
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Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So I hear that the box office performance of Superman Returns is not up to par. I guess now I'll have to see it out of pity for the box office.


There is nothing wrong with the movie (but please do go see it ). It's the whiny fan boys who bitch coming out of the theater that there weren't enough "OMG EXPLOSIONS!!111!1" that send a bad word of mouth.

Superman dealing with deep emotions over the fact that the woman he loves more than anything (and freaking turned back time for!) doesn't love him anymore...yeah, the neck bearded nerds don't really care for that.

Hell, I have a feeling that if Hollywood made a movie based on the nerd's life where he has constant sex with a supermodel while playing Halo 2 we would hear complants that "The supermodel wasn't thin enough and I should have been playing Halo 2 on a plasma screen! God, idiots."

I'm not saying that people who didn't like the movie fall under this catagory, but I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that a vast majority do. I mean, for godsake, people still flock to Adam Sandler movies in droves. Fuck this country.


"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I simply don't expect SR to have the staying power that BB had. BB had such incredible word of mouth precisely because of it's emotional depth and, beyond that, its execution. BB executed beyond expectations on every possible level, which kept its numbers up all summer long. I think GC is right in saying that PotC2 is going to immediately eclipse SR. And because it was so freakin' expensive to make, they have a long row to hoe.

And yet, I find myself awaiting news on the sequel already. I personally enjoyed SR. Not perfect like BB, but worth my time. I can't wait for the DVD, and I might even cook up a project based on it depending on what they give us.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I personally enjoyed SR. Not perfect like BB, but worth my time.


That is so strange. I hear EVERYONE comparing SR to Batman Begins when in all honosty the two should be judged differently. Not to mention the fact that I take the polar opposite when I say that Batman Begins was good, but Superman Returns was better. I saw BB in the theater, once, and never bought the DVD (and I'm a HUGE Batman fan, for crying out loud) and with SR, I've seen it twice and plan on seeing it a 3rd time when my cousins come to visit me.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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SR is crying out for fan editing. I had no problem with the emotional content - actually that was the second best thing about it.
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Jenny, I can appreciate that you liked the film as much as you did but PLEASE don't make generic assumptions that people who complain about it as 'fanboys' who just want more explosions. First of all, there are thousands of young film viewers who *do* just want explosions in summer movies but those are more than likely *not* your more discerning 'fanboy' audience.

Second if the 'fanboy' crowd (in which I don't include myself at least in any sort of derogatory fashion inasmuch as anyone who posts on these forums are geeks and fanboys/girls etc) has complaints about this movie (and many do, try reading the SuperHeroHype Superman Returns forums for comments on either side) it is that Bryan Singer made a COPY of one director's interpretation of a character and INGNORED years and years of history of that character. Whether people like 'Superman' the comic or character or not I feel there was very little to be gained by 'modernizing' him in the way that Singer did and more importantly THROWING out the fundamental nature of the character, the very things that make the character who he is, for the sake of 'emotionalizing' him in a way that the director could better relate to. And I think the mixed reactions (and box office take) show this. Well, also that the movie has very little going on in the plot and what does go on is, frankly and no matter what genre, kind of boring and nonsensical.

I read in one review that Singer had suceeded, in that reviewer's opinion, in making Superman 'creepier than Batman' and I tend to agree. Saving people in and of itself is not heroic. There has to be heart and morals behind it. And the SR version of Superman, IMHO, has no heroic heart behind it. He's mopey, mostly self-serving and obsessive- which if Bryan Singer wanted to make up his own hero and call him Singerman or whatever that might be fine... but that is not Superman. At least not the Superman I've read in comics, seen in TV shows (and I've never watched 'Smallville' as it looks like more whiny WB soap opera crap to me) or even seen in the original 'Superman' films (and I'll even include 3 and maybe even 4, superior to Batman Forever and B & R). And using the old film style opening credits and using the Williams 'Superman' theme to tug at our nostalgia left me with just about as bitter of a taste as seeing the opening of 'The Phantom Menace'... I *wanted* to feel it fit in but in the end I couldn't delude myself.

So basically I am glad you liked it and wouldn't take that away for the world but please don't knock people who *didn't* enjoy it. They're people too!

Now I think I'll go try and figure out how a 22 year old Pulitzer Prize winning journalist is too stupid to be able spell 'catastrophe'. *sigh*
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Originally posted by: greencapt
Second if the 'fanboy' crowd has complaints about this movie it is that Bryan Singer made a COPY of one director's interpretation of a character and INGNORED years and years of history of that character. Whether people like 'Superman' the comic or character or not I feel there was very little to be gained by 'modernizing' him in the way that Singer did and more importantly THROWING out the fundamental nature of the character, the very things that make the character who he is, for the sake of 'emotionalizing' him in a way that the director could better relate to.

...Saving people in and of itself is not heroic. There has to be heart and morals behind it. And the SR version of Superman, IMHO, has no heroic heart behind it. He's mopey, mostly self-serving and obsessive- but that is not Superman. At least not the Superman I've read in comics, seen in TV shows or even seen in the original 'Superman' films.



But see, that's my point. I'm not knocking you, but people are having problems simply enjoying this movie for what it is. Superman has gone through countless changes this is just another chapter in his saga. Hell, they even killed him in the comics. But because this movie it isn't what the comics are, people hate it. I have never touched a comic in my life, nor seen any TV show. And I saw the first movie when I was about 14 and wasn't all that impressed. (Maybe that is why I love SR so much. I have nothing to "compare" it to. I'm an unfettered mind. I like the direction they are taking the character because I don't know where he has been.)

But my complant is that these are the same people who bitched about the X-Men movies too. "The X-Men movie was essentially the Wolverine Show." "Juggernaut was not a mutant!" "Gene Grey did not become the Pheniox in that way! It was the alien that did it!"

I believe that the MOVIES and the COMICS are 2 separate worlds. In the movies, they are allowed to take creative liberties, just like they did with X-Men. People get set in their ways about how the super heroes are supposed to be, what they say, what they think, what they wear, and what they eat. When someone comes along and alters their mind set the fans wig out and say it was a horrible movie.

Granted SR has it's flaws but they seem small to me compared to the great stuff found in the film. The graphics were amazing, the dialogue was fine, the story line and plot were engrossing, and the characters were emotional and believeable. This isn't TPM we are talking about now. There weren't fart jokes and Jar Jar antics and forced wooden dialogue. People didn't like SR because the slap stick comic book hero they read about in the comics wasn't up on screen.

And I think that is a horrible way to judge a movie. Even Kevin Spacey said that this movie should be judged on its own merrit and not in comparison to the old films. As goofy as the old film was, it seem to be enjoyable. But me personally? 70's graphics aside, I found the Superman the movie to be...tedious. There were just too many antics for me to enjoy the film. But I guess that is what Superman really is. He's not a "dark" and emotional comic. So when SR took that route, people got upset. And that makes me sad.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Eh, the only real problem I had with the film was the plot... Luthor's plan was way out there even for Lex Luthor, and there was nothing really in the film that gave an opportunity for a big Super-brawl.

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SR is definitely a more worthy (pr/s)equel than TPM. However, despite what Kevin Spacey thinks, it cannot "be judged on its own merit and not in comparison to the old films." Singer did everything in his power to mimic the style of Puzo/Donner/Reeve's Superman and as such invited a direct comparison. But he then offered an incomprehensibly selective continuity with that character, and a shapeless and imbalanced narrative. The result is a movie that is neither sequel, remake, nor stand-alone, but a misch-masch of all three. Still, I'm looking forward to the ADM edition.
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Originally posted by: greencapt
Now I think I'll go try and figure out how a 22 year old Pulitzer Prize winning journalist is too stupid to be able spell 'catastrophe'. *sigh*


you don't have to be a good speller in order to be a good writer. That's what proof-readers & editors are for. Isaac Asimov couldn't spell for shit, and is still considered one of the greatest writers of our time.

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Originally posted by: Devilman-1369
Originally posted by: greencapt
Now I think I'll go try and figure out how a 22 year old Pulitzer Prize winning journalist is too stupid to be able spell 'catastrophe'. *sigh*

you don't have to be a good speller in order to be a good writer. That's what proof-readers & editors are for. Isaac Asimov couldn't spell for shit, and is still considered one of the greatest writers of our time.


Try getting a job as a reporter at a large newspaper when you can't spell 'catastrophe'- the editor is the one who does the hiring and the editor is the one who *wouldn't* hire you. Either way I admit it was a minor annoyance in the film's dialogue.

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
Even Kevin Spacey said that this movie should be judged on its own merrit and not in comparison to the old films.


Kevin Spacey also said in a Wizard Magazine interview about his role in SR that not only did he just do the film because Singer asked him to but also that 'its JUST a f*cking comic book movie'. I don't care what film project you take on as an actor- you should treat the material with respect. And IMHO (again) Spacey just coasted his way through the film. I found him very NON-memorable. In fact that's one issue I had with the script- lack of focus. It seemed it couldn't decided whether is was a film about Lois Lane and the effect Superman's departure had on her or a film about Superman and how he dealt with his return.
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Hey everyone, wesyeed here. I saw returns and sad to say I'm not feeling it with this movie... not like a "holy jesus that was awesome" feeling, more of a "eh" and it's not terrible but not great, merely average I'd say, super average... I think it may have borrowed too much from the old movies for its own good. Some parts were just awkward too and also, now superman has a son to deal with, so I'm not too interested in seeing singer do any future stories of Superboy and superdad... No thanks.

This really should be one hell of a fan edit though when they release all the cut scenes... are you interested greencapt?
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I agree, they could have at least left his son to a sequel or something down the road, but bringing him out in the first film in the "re-boot" of the franchise wasn't the smartest thing, in my opinion.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."