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John Williams' Music — Page 2

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I wasn't disappointed in the ROTJ score at all when I first heard it. For me, ROTJ is probably my favorite score of the OT (or at least a close tie to SW), it's the one I find myself listening to the most, largely due to the "luke and leia" theme, "parade of the ewoks", "brother and sister", "dark side beckons", and "light of the force" which is probably the best rendition of the force theme in the OT.

BTW- did anyone buy the Sony re-releases of the soundtracks (with the photoshop covers?) I bought the RCA versions in 1997, and I was wondering if there was any difference in the sound. The RCA CDs were supposed to be "remastered" so I was skeptical when the Sony ones came out a few years ago, supposedly "remastered" again.

I still prefer the CD boxed-set anthology for the ROTJ tracks, because it contains "lapti nek" and the original ewok song.

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Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: Darth Lars

John Williams is not perfect in the OT either. I don't know when Luke's theme became "The Force" theme...


It didn't. Ben's Theme became "The Force" theme.

Right- I saw an interview with John Williams many years ago, and he said that the main "star wars" theme is actually "Luke's theme" (note how it's gently played as we first see Luke when he emerges to help his uncle pick out droids).


Is any more proof needed that Luke is the main character of Star Wars? I mean, when the character's theme is also the movie's theme... it kinda make you think, doesn't it George? I mean, I didn't hear the prequels begin with Anakin's Theme or The Imperial March, did you?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape

Is any more proof needed that Luke is the main character of Star Wars? I mean, when the character's theme is also the movie's theme... it kinda make you think, doesn't it George? I mean, I didn't hear the prequels begin with Anakin's Theme or The Imperial March, did you?

I don't get it- weren't we always told that the star wars movies were the story of Luke Skywalker, and how he eventually "saves" his father? Is GL really trying to make us believe that the entire story is actually about Anakin/Darth? I don't care- Luke has been and always will be my favorite character in the films.

No wonder Mark Hamill is ticked with him.

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Originally posted by: Skyranger
Is it just me, or has the quality of John Williams' music for Star Wars paralleled the quality of the films themselves?


Not for the OT since Return of the Jedi was the height of Star Wars music in my mind with Empire being slightly behind.

Otherwise, in the PT I've notcied how the music got worse with each installment. The musical scores in AotC and RotS were both repetitive and poorly arranged. TPM easilly had the best music out of the prequels, though nothing that come close to the genius in Jedi or Empire.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I think what was originally composed for the PT was quite good. What pissed me off about the PT scores was how many tracked pieces he used. There are so many moments in the PT where they just cut and pasted previous tunes from the earlier movies into there. Of course, that started in ROTJ as well, where they use the TIE fighter chase from Star Wars during the Death Star core chase. But that was only that one time. In the prequels, especially ROTS, so much music is just reused, and it just seems so lazy.

And don't think I'm confusing reusing with leitmotif. They're the exact same pieces.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Mielr,

I'm pretty sure the Sony reissues are not re-remastered. They're basically the same as the RCA ones, only with worse covers.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
What pissed me off about the PT scores was how many tracked pieces he used. There are so many moments in the PT where they just cut and pasted previous tunes from the earlier movies into there. Of course, that started in ROTJ as well, where they use the TIE fighter chase from Star Wars during the Death Star core chase. But that was only that one time. In the prequels, especially ROTS, so much music is just reused, and it just seems so lazy.


Precisely. There are parts in AotC and RotS where the music seems to abruptly start and end. It was like they just played music that was already arranged and then cut where the scene ended. Seemed very cheap to me. But, I will agree with you that the music itself, while overused, is very well written.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Mielr
...and "light of the force" which is probably the best rendition of the force theme in the OT.
Oh without a doubt. Beautiful, beautiful music. I honostly don't get goosebumps easily but there is yet another score that brings them to my skin. It's just so triumphantly final that you can almost see Luke holding up a raised lightsaber as it if were excalabur itself.

Originally posted by: Mielr

I don't get it- weren't we always told that the star wars movies were the story of Luke Skywalker, and how he eventually "saves" his father?


You also have to remember that the original title to the whole Star Wars trilogy before 1977 was "Star Wars: From the adventures of Luke Skywalker". Even the book reprints have to have that little disclaimer on the cover no mater how much Lucas bitches and moans.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: THX
Mielr,

I'm pretty sure the Sony reissues are not re-remastered. They're basically the same as the RCA ones, only with worse covers.
Thanks, I had a feeling they were the same, which is why I didn't buy them.

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
What pissed me off about the PT scores was how many tracked pieces he used. There are so many moments in the PT where they just cut and pasted previous tunes from the earlier movies into there. Of course, that started in ROTJ as well, where they use the TIE fighter chase from Star Wars during the Death Star core chase. But that was only that one time. In the prequels, especially ROTS, so much music is just reused, and it just seems so lazy.

Precisely. There are parts in AotC and RotS where the music seems to abruptly start and end. It was like they just played music that was already arranged and then cut where the scene ended. Seemed very cheap to me. But, I will agree with you that the music itself, while overused, is very well written.
The music for the end credits of ROTS sounds like it was slapped together at the last minute- it's choppy and sounds horrible. The OT end credits music always flowed together so well- the transition between themes was always so smooth. In ROTS, it sounds like they just decided to sloppily throw a little of everything in there, including the "rebel ceremony" ending from ROTJ, and Princess Leia's theme (?!)
It was like JW was thinking, "let's get this over with so I can get out of here."

On the other hand, I think Williams decided to re-use some Star Wars themes in Jedi out of pure nostalgia (like the "tie fighter" part during the 2nd death star battle). I loved the way they tacked on the "rebel ceremony" bit at the end of the Jedi finale- it was very bittersweet, and a perfect ending to the trilogy.

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
Originally posted by: Mielr
...and "light of the force" which is probably the best rendition of the force theme in the OT.

Oh without a doubt. Beautiful, beautiful music. I honostly don't get goosebumps easily but there is yet another score that brings them to my skin. It's just so triumphantly final that you can almost see Luke holding up a raised lightsaber as it if were excalabur itself.

I get goosebumps too....stunningly gorgeous music.

I also REALLY love the full "Jabba The Hutt" theme played by the Utah Symphony Orchestra on the Star Wars Trilogy CD (on the Varese Sarabande label). It's well worth buying if you haven't heard it yet. I guess there was no full version recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra, since it's never appeared on any of the soundtrack editions. It appeared on another Star Wars CD awhile back- the "Skywalker Symphony" conducted by John Williams. It wasn't very good, and I took it back to the store and asked for my money back. I wonder whatever happened to the "Skywalker Symphony"....?

I'd still like to know what happened to the bit of music from the sail barge when Artoo is serving drinks. I'd love to have a full version of that.

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Lately I've been fairly obsessed with the Star Wars scores, having bought the soundtrack cd's last summer (the ones with the bad covers). I already knew most of the music really well, but hearing all the stuff that was recorded and not used got me very interested in the music for its own sake. The Hoth scenes, for example, contain large amounts of deleted music, and those have become favourites of mine.

I can never decide which of the three films I think has the best music--they're all great, in their similar-yet-different way. I love how each film has its own distinct "feel", all recognisably SW but unique in the particulars of the style.

My pet project the past few months concerns the background music--the parts that are quieter and less noticeable, generally not containing the main themes, or only faint renditions thereof. I'm editing sections of music together, finding ways to combine them so it sounds like they'd been composed that way to begin with, into tracks of four or five minutes each. So far I've got about an hour's worth; once I get around 75 minutes it'll be burned to cd. I'm having a lot of fun with that, but it's time-consuming and hard to get it to sound exactly right. People I've told about it think I'm nuts, I think, but hey. lol

The idea for that came from the game Jedi Knight--there are cd tracks in the game containing heavily-edited together sections of the film scores, mostly the background stuff. I like the SW ambience feel that you get from that.
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I actually have the 1997 SE soundtracks. I need to go take a look at them, but each set is actually a 2 disk set with about 24 - 30 tracks for one film giving just about every snippet of music found in the movies. Which is fantastic because there is this great bonus track on ANH disk 2 titled "Binary Sunset, Alternate." If you have never heard this one before it is awesome!

The alternate score starts were Luke would have said "Yeah that's what you said when Biggs and Tank left" and goes on until the next scene (when looking for R2 the next morning). The music that was composed originally was much, much darker and more eerie. You see Luke looking at the sun sets and the music seems to be saying "The empire is out there and they will be coming. Nothing good is going to come from this and your future is uncertain." It's really cool. Gives a total 180 degree look at what that whole scene means. And it was all just a simple change in music.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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On the other hand, I think Williams decided to re-use some Star Wars themes in Jedi out of pure nostalgia (like the "tie fighter" part during the 2nd death star battle). I loved the way they tacked on the "rebel ceremony" bit at the end of the Jedi finale- it was very bittersweet, and a perfect ending to the trilogy.

i think that it is more Lucas' idea to re-use the tie fighters music in ROTJ (specially in the "sail barge assault", because you can hear an alternative cue on the 97 SE discs)

On the subject of the Prequel music, i like it, it's probably the only thing that i've really enjoyed in the movies but i think there is an "overuse" of choirs in the scores, i feel that sometimes the music is trying to compensate the lack of drama and "epic feeling" in the movies.

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Ah, the Binary Sunset alternate track . . . gosh I love that cue. I first heard it in the game Jedi Outcast (it occurs in part in the second level) and I always wondered where it was from, because it sounded Star Wars-y but I didn't recognise it. Once I got my complete soundtrack cd's I finally discovered what it was! I've watched that part of the movie with my cd player doing the alternate track--it matches up perfectly timewise, but the feel of it is so different it's amazing to think what it would have been, if Lucas hadn't asked Williams to write something different instead.

I like the alternate Sail Barge cue as well, also having heard it first in Jedi Outcast. It doesn't re-use the older themes the way the final version does, though Jabba's theme does come in (possibly when Leia is strangling him?). I think the reason they didn't use that was because they kept changing the edit of the whole sail barge sequence, according to Ben Burtt on the commentary, so the music had to be completely redone.

I have that Skywalker Symphony cd as well--it's interesting to hear the various concert arrangements of things that weren't recorded in full for the films. I think the group was only put together for the one recording, wasn't it?
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Originally posted by: hairy_hen

I have that Skywalker Symphony cd as well--it's interesting to hear the various concert arrangements of things that weren't recorded in full for the films. I think the group was only put together for the one recording, wasn't it?

I don't know- somehow I was under the impression that they had been assembled to replace the London Symphony Orchestra when the prequel soundtracks were to be recorded. That didn't happen obviously, but maybe I just misunderstood. I was quite disappointed with that CD- I thought their version of the "Jabba the Hutt" theme was pretty poor compared to the Utah Symphony's version, and the other tracks were no match for the London Symphony's versions, IMO, so I returned the CD.

The Utah Symphony CD is quite good, actually. Their versions of the Star Wars tracks are excellent, although some of them seem a bit slower than the original versions. Their album was the first to feature the 20th Century Fox fanfare before the main Star Wars theme, which was very cool. They were also the first to record some previously-unreleased tracks like 'Darth Vader's Death', and the 'Jabba' theme- which I don't think the London Symphony ever recorded in full.

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I just picked up the "Shadows of the Empire" soundtrack, and it is fantastic. I think it's worth the price of admission just for "The Destruction of Xizor's Palace". It's a damn shame that this soundtrack wasn't actually used in a movie.

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I'm listening to the Battle of Endor Part 1 and at 1:37 I shot straight up from looking at this goddamn screen and I swear I'd heard that part of it in Indiana Jones. I mean....I just spent 3 minutes convincing myself that I was wrong. It's weird that I totally know where in ROTJ that music is, but I thought of Indiana Jones first.

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I think that John williams was at his best with ESB. Great score, and in my opinion, the best he's ever done. (Though I loved the score to the first Harry Potter film) I also agree that the level of music indicates how good a Star Wars movie is. ESB had the best music, and was the best Star Wars film.

But Williams isn't my favorite composer. He reuses the same tunes too much. Using tunes many times isn't bad, but Williams can't always pull it off. My favorite composer of today would have to be Howard Shore. No score will ever outmatch that of the LOTR trilogy.

Anyway, Williams was at his best with the OT. Sadly, the next version of Star Wars will probably have the whole score replaced with a Gungan chorus.
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John Barry was one of the greatest film composers as well. His work was astounding. I especially love the music he wrote for the Bond films.

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With the Sony re-issues indicating that the masters are now in DSD, I'm dissapointed that there is no SACD release of the original trilogy soundtracks.
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Certainly a body of work that's legendary and some of my favorite music to listen to. I think these four John Williams pieces are some of the greatest music ever written;

Jaws - Man Against Beast
Star Wars - Hologram/Binary Sunset
Raiders of the Lost Ark - The Map Room
Memoirs of a Geisha - The Journey to the Hanamachi

However, in my world Jerry Goldsmith is the master. His ability to create atmosphere and tension is unmatched. You can feel it. You become part of the film. Also, his work is typically darker than Williams - which I prefer. Williams is really more of a reoccurring theme \ fanfare guy with an occasional atmospheric piece with some tension or suspense. Goldsmith, on the other hand, seems to inhabit that world. These are examples of what I'm talking about;

Alien - Main Title
Logan's Run - The Monument
Patton - The Battleground
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