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Ages of Luke & Leia — Page 2

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I'm not sure where it comes from, but other people have brought it up before.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Leia's memory of Padme can be explained by Yoda in ESB:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."
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BTW- (sorry if this has been discussed before), but why didn't Mark Hamill do commentary for the DVDs? It seems like he would have been a natural choice.

I'm not sure if this is truth or not but I heard that Mark and Harrison wanted too much money or something along those lines. It's a theory, it's probably wrong.
1000 Word Migraine
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Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
Leia's memory of Padme can be explained by Yoda in ESB:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."


Which, once again, is refuted by Lucas himself, back in the 1980s who said that he wanted one of the twins to have memories of their mother. Not Force-induced visions, but actual memories. There's a huge difference. To make ourselves feel better, sure, we can rationalize it, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, George dropped the ball, and that's all there is to it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: DorK313
BTW- (sorry if this has been discussed before), but why didn't Mark Hamill do commentary for the DVDs? It seems like he would have been a natural choice.

I'm not sure if this is truth or not but I heard that Mark and Harrison wanted too much money or something along those lines. It's a theory, it's probably wrong.

Did anyone read that interview that Carrie did with George Lucas for Sound And Vision magazine a couple of years ago? George made a comment, something about complaining that Star Wars ruined your life, or something, then she said something like "that's Mark's job". It gave me the feeling that maybe GL and Mark weren't on the best of terms anymore. Carrie and GL have been very buddy-buddy for some time now.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
Leia's memory of Padme can be explained by Yoda in ESB:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."


Which, once again, is refuted by Lucas himself, back in the 1980s who said that he wanted one of the twins to have memories of their mother. Not Force-induced visions, but actual memories. There's a huge difference. To make ourselves feel better, sure, we can rationalize it, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, George dropped the ball, and that's all there is to it.


I agree, Gaffer Tape.

Also, from a purely character-based point of view, Leia doesn't seem to me like the kind of girl that would confuse a vision induced by the force with reality. I just don't consider that to be a reasonable consideration.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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However, I must say he dropped the ball back during ROTJ as well. It further fuels my theory that he just made up Leia being Luke's sister at the time because, if he had planned it, there would have been some mention of her being adopted at some point in the previous movies, or having actually mentioned her last name in the movie rather than just listed in the opening credits of the first movie. Instead, it just pops out of nowhere without ever having been mentioned before, and we're simply supposed to accept it!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Agreed. I have no idea what Lucas was thinking having Padme die in birth. It completely destroys the continuity.

As for Leia being the youngest Senator, I believe she was elected in her late teens, whereas Padme says in "Clones" that they 'ammended the constitution' to allow her to serve multiple terms as queen, so she was probably 20 or so when she started.


nope they wanted to change the constitution so she could serve more terms but she didnt want to/feel it was right. havent seen the movie in a long time (right before sith came out) but pretty sure thats how it went.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Maybe Lucas was looking for an easy way to put an end to the love triangle story that had developed during ESB?

After all, that's a bit too serious...
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: trickbaxter
Leia remembering her mom has never bothered me, because I instantly assumed she was referring to her adopted mother.


Of course that would make little sense for her to be thinking of her adopted mother when talking with Luke. The whole point of the scene is to show that something very deep and wrong was going on in the family even when they were babies.

Since Luke knows that Leia is his sister but has no memory of his mother it would make sense that he would ask her about her memories. I highly doubt that Luke would have given a flying rats ass about what Leia thought of her adopted mother.
"She was very beautiful. Kind, yet ... sad." Gee, now why would Leia remember her mom being sad? Probably due to the fact that her husband turned into a total douch bag.

He also stresses the issue "Do you remember your mother? Your REAL mother?" I'm not adopted but I would seriously question what someone was getting at if they asked me if I remembered my real mother. "Uhh...I've only had one mom."

EDIT: Leia is mentioned as being adopted somewhere. It's really obscure, but it's there. I think it is on the Star Wars LP soundtrack. You open it up and it has little bios on the characters and makes note that she is the adopted daughter of Senater Organa. Something like that.

I also believe that during Star Wars Leia and Luke were not ment to be related, but then when George got the green light for ESB (and subsequently ROTJ) he started writing that the two would be twins. But then again, the fact that both Luke and Leia are the same age and have the same stupid twin cliche (naming both children with same letter and number of letters, i.e. Mary & Mark, John & Jane) that maybe old George did have it all planned. I like to pretend that he did right from the begining, even if it isn't true.


So, Mark and George aren't freinds anymore, eh? Not that I can blame him (Mark). I don't like George either. During the Achivement award thing Harrison was the only cast member sitting with George. Apparently Carrie and Mark were like, "Hell no."
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I refuse to let this be a plot hole. I try to belive that Leia was refering to Mrs. Organa, not knowing she was adopted, even though Luke says "real mother". Perhaps Bail Organa's wife died, and then he re-married, and the "real mother" was the first one...

*sigh* OK I tried my best George! You tell ME how we handle that one!
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Let me just believe that she knew nothing of her real mother, or her being adopted, so that I can assume that she was thinking that Mom Organa was her real mom. I try my hardest to like the Saga. It's an uphill battle, I know, but I've got to try.

FE<3OT

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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny

Leia is mentioned as being adopted somewhere. It's really obscure, but it's there. I think it is on the Star Wars LP soundtrack. You open it up and it has little bios on the characters and makes note that she is the adopted daughter of Senater Organa. Something like that.

I assume it had to have been written somewhere, but that's one of those things that just needs to be in the movie if it's supposed to end up as important as George claims. I can understand never mentioning the types of ships or the Ewoks by name, but just passing off this "real mother" line like it's common knowledge is just a bit sloppy, in my opinion.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
Leia's memory of Padme can be explained by Yoda in ESB:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."


Which, once again, is refuted by Lucas himself, back in the 1980s who said that he wanted one of the twins to have memories of their mother. Not Force-induced visions, but actual memories. There's a huge difference. To make ourselves feel better, sure, we can rationalize it, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, George dropped the ball, and that's all there is to it.
Sure it's a rationalization, but you're basing this off something Lucas said 20+ years ago? Heaven knows the guy's changed his mind more often on the backstory than that.

And of course Lucas made up Leia being Luke's sister as he was going along!

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Originally posted by: trickbaxter
So, Mark and George aren't freinds anymore, eh? Not that I can blame him (Mark). I don't like George either. During the Achivement award thing Harrison was the only cast member sitting with George. Apparently Carrie and Mark were like, "Hell no."

I get the feeling that Mark is a bit resentful of some things George has done lately. I don't think he was all that thrilled with the Special Editions. I recently saw his film "comic book- the movie" and he made some comments on the commentary track that also led me to believe he was pissed with Lucasfilm. He seemed OK at the AFI awards, though. I think the reason Harrison Ford was the only cast member sitting with George is because he's also an AFI recipient.

Carrie is still very good friends with George. She's interviewed him a number of times and I think she and her daughter visit him quite a bit. It just surprised me that she did the commentary on the DVDs- she's never been that willing to talk about Star Wars, and it seems like Mark was always the biggest "fan" of the films. I guess it's Carrie's strong friendship with George that made it possible for him to talk her into doing the commentaries.

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Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
Leia's memory of Padme can be explained by Yoda in ESB:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."


Which, once again, is refuted by Lucas himself, back in the 1980s who said that he wanted one of the twins to have memories of their mother. Not Force-induced visions, but actual memories. There's a huge difference. To make ourselves feel better, sure, we can rationalize it, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, George dropped the ball, and that's all there is to it.
Sure it's a rationalization, but you're basing this off something Lucas said 20+ years ago? Heaven knows the guy's changed his mind more often on the backstory than that.

And of course Lucas made up Leia being Luke's sister as he was going along!


That's true. I'd been wondering when somebody was going to call me on that. And it's also true that, especially over the course of movie series, you have to accommodate changing directions in the storyline. But there has to be a limit. And the reference in Return of the Jedi is so explicit that it's nearly impossible to rationalize away! It's not something that can just be chalked up to George's mind changing. It's not a 60 year old comic book series where the continuity can change at will. When George decided that one of the kids had to remember their mother and put it in that movie that way, it became set in stone (until he decides to remove the scene when he comes to realization that he screwed up in ROTS... and we all groan and bash him for his flawed logic and lack of fact checking and overall dickheadedness). I mean, how far are we going to let him go? If he suddenly decided to say, "No. Luke didn't really blow up the Death Star. Vader actually manipulated the Force to move the exhaust port right in line with Luke's torpedo in an effort to rebel against his master, the Emperor. All that trying to shoot Luke down was just an attempt by Vader to make it look more convincing," are we going to be able to accept that too as just Lucas changing his mind?




I think not...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Surely this exchange tells us that either:

(a) Leia is, in fact, older than Luke, or

(b) remained with Padme for a few years before being adopted by the Organas.
I have a simpler explanation. Leia simply has a memory that isn't real. If she was told (which is entirely plausible) that her mother died when she was 3 or 4 (instead of telling her that her mother died at childbirth of a broken heart) then it's entirely possible, and reasonable that she would believe she has some faint memories of her mum.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Yes, that is feasible, but how crap would that be? It takes a touching scene about a young woman's memories of her heartbroken mother and turn sthem into yet another rationalization. To hell with these rationalizations. Lucas f'ed up. The End.

Of course, there is a simple remedy to all this: Don't watch or acknowledge the prequels, or watch them, but treat them as seperate entities, i.e, not the first 3 chapters of a 6 part saga.

War does not make one great.

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Learn to reject the prequels.
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You must unprequel what you have prequelled...
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Huh? What prequals? I see no prequals.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
You must unprequel what you have prequelled...


lol

Hmm, the explanation as to why Lea didn't actually live with her "real" mother (as Luke said) in the PT is simple: That would have forced George Lucas to write a scene where Padme agreed to go into hiding with her daughter and also give up her baby son to strangers. Writing actual drama is apparently too haaard for Lucas and so he took the easy way.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Yeah, I've always been a supporter of that kind of plot element. Dying because of a contradictory losing will to live but still believes there is good in Anakin: lame and nonsensical. Surviving and having to choose between her babies: gut-wrenching if pulled off properly.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Also worth mentioning is the fact that they aren't related to each other.
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Also worth mentioning is the fact that they aren't related to each other.



Uhh...yeah they are. That's the whole point of our conversation. But if you are not talking about Luke and Leia, then who are you talking about?
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas