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Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release? — Page 3

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Originally posted by: THX
Originally posted by: Vigo
You guys might be interested in the fact, that the German dub on my 1995 THX Laserdisc was apparently made using the original mono track, since ALL sound effects and ALL dialogue matches the mono sound examples i heard on the page.
I'm not sure I understand this, Vigo - how can the dialogue match if it's a German dub?


Because the additional english lines, which are not present in the 70mm / Stereo mix, appear in the German dub. Dubbed of course but they are there. Like C3PO´s line "the tractor beam..." or "Close the blast doors!" or "Wedge, where are you!".
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Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
Originally posted by: Vigo
You guys might be interested in the fact, that the German dub on my 1995 THX Laserdisc was apparently made using the original mono track, since ALL sound effects and ALL dialogue matches the mono sound examples i heard on the page.

I also noticed that in the trash compactor sequence, the complete music background was removed on the 2004 SE from the point on where they hear the roar until the point Luke is released by the monster. It is also present on the German dub. Some other guy told me that the 1993 definite edition LAserdiscs also don´t have this background music.

All German releases excluding the 2004 editions seem to match the original mono mix. That´s why i was really puzzled, when i heard the english audio on the 2004 SE that some sound effects were radically different.


I don't remember music EVER appearing in this scene ...


It is there on my laserdisc and was there on my 1990 taping of Star Wars on German television. No-one to this day was able to give me the answer from what mix this music comes from, since it isn´t present on the 70mm version.
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Could you post an example of this musical cue? That would go a long way in getting your satisfactory answer.
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Would that be the "dianoga" cue that's on the full soundtrack CD? I don't know whether this is in the mono mix or not, but that would explain it (if it was). Either way, it sounds like the German LDs could be a good additional source for mono reconstruction.
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Hmm ... from my understanding, that was a cut cue that never appeared in any theatrical version or home video version whatsoever (obviously apart from the German release if this info is correct) ... *was* it in the mono mix?
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I believe it goes like this:

Big gun battle in detention block AA-23 (lots of music)
The gang jump into the garbage masher (no music)
I have a bad feeling…” (no music)
"It's worse" (no music)
Luke grabbed and released (no music)
Masher starts moving (no music)
Luke calls 3PO “Where could he be?”
We cut to R2, 3PO and the dimwitted ST’s. (music starts)
Back at the trash masher “We’re all going to be a lot thinner” (music continues)
Cuts between 3PO and the gang (more music)
Boom the masher stops thanks to R2. (the music stops on the BOOM).

It is the same on both my 70MM version and the mono version I downloaded.

I’d love to hear a different clip???

BrianM
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If you could post a link to an audio clip, Vigo... (or anyone else who has the German LDs - Citizen?)
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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Didn't someone watching the '77 bootleg mention Obi Wan's Krayt dragon call from the mono mix is the same from the 2004 dvd?
If they did, they would be wrong.

Originally posted by: Vigo
It is there on my laserdisc and was there on my 1990 taping of Star Wars on German television. No-one to this day was able to give me the answer from what mix this music comes from, since it isn´t present on the 70mm version.

It's not from any sound mix--including mono. It's an original cue that was not used. From what I understand, it only appears in the German version. I have no idea how or why that happened.

Also, part of this music was used for the extended approach into Mos Eisley in the Special Edition.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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Originally posted by: THX
If you could post a link to an audio clip, Vigo... (or anyone else who has the German LDs - Citizen?)


I could sample it and post it to someone here on the forum.
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I have prepared some samples which are ready to be sent to someone:

- Trash compactor scene
- The beginning which has different soundeffects than the english audio on the SE
- German "Blast It! Wedge, where are you?" dialogue
- C3PO´s tractor beam line in German
- The millenium falcon hyperspace sound

Grabbed from the 1995 German THX laserdisc. Every dialogue and soundeffect matches exactly an early 1990 German TV recording.
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Originally posted by: BrianM
I believe it goes like this:

Big gun battle in detention block AA-23 (lots of music)
The gang jump into the garbage masher (no music)
I have a bad feeling…” (no music)
"It's worse" (no music)
Luke grabbed and released (no music)
Masher starts moving (no music)
Luke calls 3PO “Where could he be?”
We cut to R2, 3PO and the dimwitted ST’s. (music starts)
Back at the trash masher “We’re all going to be a lot thinner” (music continues)
Cuts between 3PO and the gang (more music)
Boom the masher stops thanks to R2. (the music stops on the BOOM).

It is the same on both my 70MM version and the mono version I downloaded.

I’d love to hear a different clip???

BrianM


On the german track it goes like this:

->They fall into the trash compactor. (no music)
->Chewie knocks at the door. (no music)
->Han fires the Laserblast. Luke and Leia are upset. (no music)

Now the audio clip comes in:
------------------------------------

-> Leia: "Es könnte schlimmer sein" ("It could be worse") (No music)

*GROWL*

*Music starts and continues*

->Han: "Es IST schlimmer!" ("It IS worse!")

* Music continues during the whole scene while Luke is struggling with the monster, makes a short pause when Luke is released, and then continues when the cmpactor is activated*

until:

-> Lukes voice coming out of the communicator lying on the table: "3PO! Wo steckt er nur???" ("3PO! Where could he be???")

The rest matches with your description of the mono/70MM audio .
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Vigo, I'd get those samples to The Starkiller and/or belbucus if I were you.
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or maybe an upload to rapidshare or yousendit?
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Yes, that would be best.
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Thanks for that, Vigo. Very strange to hear that cue there (not to mention the German dialogue). Okay, so that shows it's not the same as the mono mix (even besides the obvious dialogue difference). Now, thanks to belbucus, we know Burtt continued to change the mix when preparing the foreign releases. The mono was the last to be made, so it would stand to reason that he would use that as the basis for further changes.

However, it's possible (however unlikely) that it was the other way around. Does anyone know the German release date and/or the US mono release date?

It's also possible that this mix, while substantially similar to the mono mix in content, could be in stereo. Unfortunately, the left channel from my cpu got disconnected and it's a nightmare to get to it so I can't tell from the sample. Vigo?
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I know that this is slighty off topic but would there be a way to take the German LD's and recreate the mono mix with the soud effects from the German LD's and the english audio from one of the US releases. We have the theater bootleg so that way we know what dialogue is there. That way we have a good quality mono mix.
Just thinking out load.
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Well i know the mono version was being mixed on the opening day, May 25th, since Lucas tells the story of how he went to go to the MGM mixing studio to work on the mix and noticed the lines around the block and then phoned up Hamill to come down and loop more dialog that very night. I would assume that the foreign mixes would be done after this. IMDB lists opening days for overseas as much, much later in the summer, October, November and December for many european countries (although this could easily be inaccurate, i would think not by a whole lot).
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OK, this server wont let me download ths sound for free.

Can somebody send it to me?
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PM me your email address, Brian. Also, you might want to turn on Private Messages in your profile.
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Yes, I thought it was likely the English mono mix was completed first. According to LDDb, the German THX edition is in Dolby Surround, which is potentially more useful than it being in mono. But even if you decoded it to 4 discrete tracks, and found that all the (German) dialogue was in the center channel, you'd have a hard time filling that dialogue back in, as the only available sources of the alternate (English) lines are in mono (i.e. mixed in with everything). Not to mention the fact that the dianoga cue and the Dave Schnuelle quote prove this mix is different from the English mono mix. You could make a mono version of just the non-dialogue parts, but even that would be different from the original mono mix, and the quality change when switching to dialogue would be very audible.
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Originally posted by: THX
Thanks for that, Vigo. Very strange to hear that cue there (not to mention the German dialogue). Okay, so that shows it's not the same as the mono mix (even besides the obvious dialogue difference).


Cool, apparently, we Germans got our own Sound mix, where the mono mix has been used as a base. Interesting would be if there exist other foreign language mixes with further changes.


Now, thanks to belbucus, we know Burtt continued to change the mix when preparing the foreign releases. The mono was the last to be made, so it would stand to reason that he would use that as the basis for further changes.

It would be very interesting to gather further information about this, and what the reason is why we got additional music in our sound mix and why it wasn´t included in later english sound mixes.


However, it's possible (however unlikely) that it was the other way around. Does anyone know the German release date and/or the US mono release date?


German release date was Feb. 9th 1978.


It's also possible that this mix, while substantially similar to the mono mix in content, could be in stereo. Unfortunately, the left channel from my cpu got disconnected and it's a nightmare to get to it so I can't tell from the sample. Vigo?


The mix is definately in stereo. It is still present in the German 5.1 mix from 1997. Even the 5.1 mix from the 2004 SE keeps all the soundeffects from the mono mix, but the musical cue was removed.
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Originally posted by: Vigo
It would be very interesting to gather further information about this, and what the reason is why we got additional music in our sound mix and why it wasn´t included in later english sound mixes. Yes, I'm surprised by this, as I understood that cue was initially intentionally excluded as it was felt to undercut the tension of the scene. Later English mixes were always made from the stereo/surround mixes which would explain its continued absence. Why they returned to the older mixes is another question, as time had obviously been taken to mix a stereo version which incorporated the later "mono mix" changes.Originally posted by: Vigo
Even the 5.1 mix from the 2004 SE keeps all the soundeffects from the mono mix, but the musical cue was removed.
Now that's unusual, I would have expected LFL to standardize the "official" mix for all but dialogue by now.