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Sets — Page 2

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I've already said this exact same thing in the thread about ILM selling their practical effects unit, but it fits here too so for anyone not following that thread I'll repeat myself:

I just watched Back to the Future 2. I found ILM's optical effects work in that movie to be far, far more impressive, believable and seamless than their recent digital work. These days, anyone can do CGI and we've all pointed out how easily it can be spotted, but BTTF2 is something else. Sure, you can catch the odd effect here and there, but does it detract? No. It pulls you into the movie. Seeing a real delorean lowered into a real set on wires or hydrolics is far better then seeing a CGI delorean. And to any detractors of model work out there: The model work in BTTF2 is bloody amazing. That shot where the delorean flies out of the sky, it's wheels return to their standard driving position, the car lands, drives down the street into a driveway and the dog gets out, all in one continuous shot: Fantastic.

War does not make one great.

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Yes, BTTF2 was a visual tour de force! It's still amazing today! I would love to get my hands on one of those models! And of course there was the pioneering Vista Glide camera that ILM made that allowed the same actor to appear as different characters or different versions of characters in the same scene without a static camera or a very obvious matte break. Genius!

The only thing that bugs me is that, on the DVD, I can see the garbage matte of Biff's Pleasure Paradise. Don't get me wrong! I don't want it removed! Of course, I don't have to worry about Zemeckis doing that, thankfully. But it's one of those things that you can go your whole life without noticing, and then, when it just pops out at you one day, you can never not notice it!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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On the Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD, they removed the infamous cobra reflection during the scene in the tomb. It was weird for me, because I was so used to seeing it that I was sort of sad to see it go.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Yeah, I don't think they should have done that. Why can't Lucas leave his movies alone?!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I voted mini-models since they have a kind of magic to them. I agree they are limited though and not applicable in every situation.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: JediFlyer06
If you look at who made the OT...the producers, the writers, the designers, the effects pioneers...they're the ones who really made Star Wars what it is. Lucas planted that seed, but it took others to nurture it. Lucas was one part of the machine back then. Today, he is the machine, and he insists his way is the right way, even when it is obviously the wrong way. What made the OT great was creative collaboration. Lucas didn't write those scripts or develop those characters all by his lonesome. And we know damn well that he didn't direct them all by his lonesome.

With the PT, Lucas was all things. He was the dictator, so to speak, surrounded by arrogant yes-men, and we see what that resulted in. Lucas has probably only one real strength, and that is in ideas. He's a good idea man, but he DESPERATELY needs others to bring those ideas to life.



You really hit the nail on the head, I try to explain this to PT fans ALL THE TIME.
The media really has always put Lucas in the spotlight. In fact, I know quite a few PT tools who dont even know who Irvin Kershner is.
For some reason, the "Hey, That's My Dinner" line has ALWAYS bothered me.
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I vote for real sets with lots of grime (except on the snooty Imperial sets cause they have the money to keep everything in tip top shape). It wasn't just that the sets were real but many of them were dirty and worn. Many other Sci-Fi flicks before and during the OT runs used real sets but didn't truly convey realism to the viewer. Why? Because they were too clean to make us dirty humans feel a connection with them.
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Some fans might shoot me for saying this, but during the making of the OT, techincally speaking, Lucas was probably the one who contributed least to the final product of the trilogy as a whole. What I mean is, he of course wrote and directed the first one. Yet, there were other script collaborators who fleshed out not only characters and story to make them more interesting, but they also helped Lucas to bring the story itself into a tighter, more coherent focus. And, you want to talk dialogue? That isn't Lucas' dialogue throughout most of the trilogy. The oft quoted and most memorable lines were contributed by Kasdan, by the directors, etc.. We all know Lucas' knack for bad dialogue. If you have a least favorite line in the OT, chances are it was written by Lucas. The general frame of the story is all Lucas. But the characters that we all know and love, the personalities, the banter, the chemistry, the subtextual layers that keep the OT as much fun to watch for the 200th time as it was the first time...most of that came from creative collaborators. If it all came from the man himself, then the PT would have measured up and been worthy of the name of Star Wars.

I would LOVE to have seen the PT made 20 years ago. For all he bitches about the limits of technology keeping him from telling his story, he doesn't realize that nobody really cares about what's going on in the background when you aren't even connected to what's happening in the foreground. Apparently, what technology has afforded him is the ability to create absurd, disposable and forgettable background characters, to allow for the inclusion of DOZENS of sweeping establishing shots, and to suck the humanity out of the main characters in deference to emotionally devoid and pixelated non-reality.

McCallum has a quote in one of the OT docs that so succinctly encapsultaes how little both he and George get it. The quote is, "The essence of the storytelling had to be sacrificed for the limits of technology." How can technology really affect the "essence" of the story? The essence of the story is in the characters, in their journey, in the story that binds them. As the OT showed, and as the dramatic tradition has shown for millenia...the story is in the characters, period. Technology should serve only to aid in the telling of the tale, not become the focus of it.

And as far as GL's "vision"goes, the army of artists from McQuarrie on down gave him his vision. They came up with the concepts and the designs. He just said, "I like this one." I'm sure he offered some input ala "faster more intense", but the physical world of Star Wars was created by, and born from the minds of others. The IDEA was born in Lucas' mind. It was a VERY broad, very expansive idea. That idea was given form and life by everyone else around him. The man deserves his credit. But, to be fair to the hundreds of people who brought it to life, he doesn't deserve as much credit as he gets. Muren, Dykstra, Tippet, Pangrazio, McQuarrie, Kershner, Kasdan, Brackett, Kurtz, and ALL the others are the real magicians who made it all happen. TOGETHER with Lucas, it was their heart, soul, and passion for the story they were telling that made the OT what it has become. It's the humanity that went not only into the characters, but into the process of making the story come to life, that has allowed the trilogy to endure the test of time, as it will for many years to come.
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I agree with you 100%, JediFlyer06.

Computers and computer effects are probably the worst thing that's ever happened to movies. Instead of just using them to enhance new films or restore older films (like removing matte lines, scratches, visible strings, etc.), they're being over-used by lazy film-makers and we're getting a whole slew of crap films because of it. Thank goodness CGI wasn't available to GL in the 1970's and 1980's. I much prefer the quirky, creative solutions that the effects people/artists had to come up with for the OOT. They were truly inspired, and GL has totally disrespected them and their hard work.

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Thankfully, I was surprised to see that "Superman Returns" didn't overuse CGI. Sure it had it in there, but there were also plenty of real sets there too.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: THX
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
...in fantasy films, especially Star Wars, it's almost unavoidable. Although there is none in SW, ESB or ROTJ.

There actually is one CGI effect in the original ROTJ, in the Rebel briefing scene. I guess one could see that as a bad omen and the beginning of "the end" for GL's film career.

Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Thankfully, I was surprised to see that "Superman Returns" didn't overuse CGI. Sure it had it in there, but there were also plenty of real sets there too.

That's good to hear- I'm looking forward to seeing that movie.

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Originally posted by: JediFlyer06
Some fans might shoot me for saying this, but during the making of the OT, techincally speaking, Lucas was probably the one who contributed least to the final product of the trilogy as a whole.


I agree. Call me weird, but for a very long while now I've attributed more of the original Star Wars' success to McQuarrie than anybody else. How much of the story, world, and characters would have been very cliche and boring had it not been for his great paintings capturing the imagination of Lucas and others? Most of the visual magic in the series comes straight from his mind.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005