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The Non-Biased PS3 Thread — Page 3

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I'm starting to believe that the entire gaming industry will crash. It'd take me too long to explain why, but basically, there's not enough fun or immersion, and we've been seeing the same annoying contrivances on the last two (and in some cases, 4) generations of console. Including, but not limited to:

- Loading times (you know, them being there AT ALL)
- Save points (as in, not being able to save whenever you want)
- Lack of Effective A.I. (falling back on multiplayer to give an FPS opponent some INTELLIGENCE)
- Invisible walls in mid-air (I'm look at you, random snowboarding game! Put a cliff there, or something!)
- Uninteractive, indestructable environments (why can I shoot the Coke can and not the magazine next to it?!)
- Shoddy cameras (designed to show off the pretty graphics, not to see the character and PLAY)
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Can I make a comment without anyone throwing down any political cards or banning me?

I can? Ok...

The PS3 will probably sell due to one solid good reason. The inner-city ghetto.

Think about it. PS2 was marketed with games like Grand Theft Auto as well as a "built in" dvd player. I have several friends in inner Minneapolis/StPaul who still use their PS2 for dvds almost as much as they play games on them. They won't care about any differences between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. All they know is "PS3=Gaming/Movies." And the games will look a little bit better to them on their 36" tube tvs.

Will the loss of exclusivity hurt of the GTA franchise hurt Sony? Not at all. The game is still going to be coming out for the PS3. If it had become exclusive to the Xbox 360, then yeah, it would have hurt a lot.

Another factor why PS3 will do pretty well is the Madden license. Madden=Football, in their minds. Never mind the fact that the ESPN 2K series was noticeably better every single year, that Madden hasn't made a decent football game since they jumped onto the PS2, and that the last decent Madden game was Madden '99...Madden=Football. While these points are arguable, Madden is still a HUGE drawing factor for the PS2. Check the sales figures.

Now, referring to the "PS3 HATING" part of this thread...I sorta have this feeling that Sony needs to apologize not only to me personally but to the entire gaming community. Reasons? 1- crappy load times on PS1, 2- ripping off Nintendo on analog control, 3- ripping Nintendo off on all that oldschool R&D they did together, 4 - SquareSoft, 5 - Utterly destroying Dreamcast, 6- ripping Nintendo off again with rumble feature, 7- packaging the most basic DVD player into the PS2 when the industry as a whole wasn't ready, 8- ripping Nintendo off again with tilt function, 9- the weird buying frenzy of the PS2 launch, and 10- Blu-Ray.

I might be able to come up with more...and I realize how stupid it is of me to even think all this, but still...it almost feels like I've been personally insulted by Sony on numerous occasions. I ain't an idiot, and they treat us like them.

Thoughts?
Which is the more foolish, the fool (the OT) or the fool who follows (the PT)?

"Stay back, or Mr...Fett gets it!"
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
I don't think the ghetto can afford the PS3.

That's what I was thinking, Wook. If the PS3 is successful, it will be because of the installed base of the PS2--those who think Playstation = gaming, who grew up while Nintendo was waning but before Microsoft bumped in.

Originally posted by: theredbaron
I'm starting to believe that the entire gaming industry will crash. It'd take me too long to explain why, but basically, there's not enough fun or immersion, and we've been seeing the same annoying contrivances on the last two (and in some cases, 4) generations of console. Including, but not limited to:

- Loading times (you know, them being there AT ALL)

Um, Loading times are just a part of storing games on CDs. They will always be there as long as systems can't store 5 GB as ram and still put out a decent graphics. Which they definitely can't yet.


- Save points (as in, not being able to save whenever you want)

Erm... Saving wherever you want requires a LOT of memory and would be IMMENSILY cheap in RPGs and Platform games.

- Lack of Effective A.I. (falling back on multiplayer to give an FPS opponent some INTELLIGENCE)


Well, games tend to be the funnest against another human anyway. Effective AI is hard to do, but there have been some recent strides forward.

- Invisible walls in mid-air (I'm look at you, random snowboarding game! Put a cliff there, or something!)


DEFINITELY agreed. If you can't go there, why bother rendering it in 3D?

- Uninteractive, indestructable environments (why can I shoot the Coke can and not the magazine next to it?!)


Totally uninteractive invironments annoy me too, especially if they're rendered, but destruction also requires a lot of memory. Which is why you don't see games like Mercenaries on the DS.

- Shoddy cameras (designed to show off the pretty graphics, not to see the character and PLAY)


I've seen some bad cameras, but most of them are in games with bad production values. Most games with good cameras I've seen also have good graphics.

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OK this is great, this is a quote from Kaz Hirai from Sony (the Riiiiiidge Racer guy):

PSM: Sony and Microsoft seem to be taking the exact same path.

Hirai: We seem to. Every time we go down a path, we look behind and they're right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do. If you look at their strategy in other business areas as well, they tend to do that.



WTF?! How about Nintendo? How about the company they stole the rumble from, so they got a legal action keeping them form adding it to the PS3 - so they come up with a lame excuse it will interfere on the motion sensors... Which are nothing but a gyroscope...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Not to mention that Sony completely stole Microsoft's Two-System structure and put in a half-hearted motion sensing functionality into their controller.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Originally posted by: sean wookie
I don't think the ghetto can afford the PS3.

That's what I was thinking, Wook. If the PS3 is successful, it will be because of the installed base of the PS2--those who think Playstation = gaming, who grew up while Nintendo was waning but before Microsoft bumped in.

Originally posted by: theredbaron
I'm starting to believe that the entire gaming industry will crash. It'd take me too long to explain why, but basically, there's not enough fun or immersion, and we've been seeing the same annoying contrivances on the last two (and in some cases, 4) generations of console. Including, but not limited to:

- Loading times (you know, them being there AT ALL)

Um, Loading times are just a part of storing games on CDs. They will always be there as long as systems can't store 5 GB as ram and still put out a decent graphics. Which they definitely can't yet.


- Save points (as in, not being able to save whenever you want)

Erm... Saving wherever you want requires a LOT of memory and would be IMMENSILY cheap in RPGs and Platform games.

- Lack of Effective A.I. (falling back on multiplayer to give an FPS opponent some INTELLIGENCE)


Well, games tend to be the funnest against another human anyway. Effective AI is hard to do, but there have been some recent strides forward.

- Invisible walls in mid-air (I'm look at you, random snowboarding game! Put a cliff there, or something!)


DEFINITELY agreed. If you can't go there, why bother rendering it in 3D?

- Uninteractive, indestructable environments (why can I shoot the Coke can and not the magazine next to it?!)


Totally uninteractive invironments annoy me too, especially if they're rendered, but destruction also requires a lot of memory. Which is why you don't see games like Mercenaries on the DS.

- Shoddy cameras (designed to show off the pretty graphics, not to see the character and PLAY)


I've seen some bad cameras, but most of them are in games with bad production values. Most games with good cameras I've seen also have good graphics.



Being able to save anywhere at any point in the game doesn't affect anything at all memory wise - you still have the space, and when you run low you just save over older saves - I've always done this even when I've had tonnes of memory, so I assume a lot of other people would too. It is present in games like KOTOR and Jade Empire among others. But my criticism was still leveled at a lot of games out there that confuse real difficulty in a game with actual frustration and sparse save points (*cough* Tomb Raider *cough*). Load times can always be minimised, even in the speed of the drive itself. Sometimes, it's just a matter of code and developers simply don't put the effort in. Effective AI is a necessary step forward, if not for FPSs, for all the one player games out there, and if developers want people still interested in videogames after this generation, they will have to think very seriously about making some leaps in this area. The novelty will wear off one day. Destruction does require a lot of memory, but if *some* things can be destroyed in a game, it should be consistent, unlike the example that I gave, which was actually from Doom 3.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: theredbaron

Being able to save anywhere at any point in the game doesn't affect anything at all memory wise - you still have the space, and when you run low you just save over older saves - I've always done this even when I've had tonnes of memory, so I assume a lot of other people would too. It is present in games like KOTOR and Jade Empire among others.


Jade Empire and KOTOR are exceptions, as they don't have an easily exploitable XP system, and are on the X-Box which has a MASSIVE hard-drive. Saving the game exactly as is almost requires one, which is why Zelda games always start you off at the begginning of a level or your house when you load a game.. Also, a game like Grand Theft Auto would be made a lot easier if you could simply save mid-mission and load it back.

You'll probably see a lot more "Save Anywhere" functions in the next generations as hard-drives on systems become more prevalent, but in other systems, like the PS2, GC, DS, PSP, and GBA, it's rather more practical to use save points.

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This Save Anywhere thing would make games too easy. Save every five seconds, made a mistake? Just load it back. No challenge at all.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
This Save Anywhere thing would make games too easy. Save every five seconds, made a mistake? Just load it back. No challenge at all.


Sure helped with beating Water Temple... ;-)

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Originally posted by: skyman8081
Originally posted by: ricarleite
This Save Anywhere thing would make games too easy. Save every five seconds, made a mistake? Just load it back. No challenge at all.


Sure helped with beating Water Temple... ;-)


I actually screwed up my game in the water temple and had to start from the beginning.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
This Save Anywhere thing would make games too easy. Save every five seconds, made a mistake? Just load it back. No challenge at all.


There is a massive difference between a challenge and a frustration. Is Half-Life no challenge at all? Sure, it wasn't the hardest game in the world, but it was still a challenge and you could save anywhere you wanted. This applies to pretty much any game. No matter where you save it, a game is not truly difficult unless you have to use your skills to beat it. Save points are a crutch - for developers who can't or can't be bothered to develop effective AI or to come up with interesting puzzles or obstacles. If I save my game just before I am attacked by a dinosaur, I still have to kill the dinosaur to progress through the game. And I should have to use my skills at the game to defeat it - in which case saving the game would have absolutely nothing to do with it. If I save my game in the middle of trying to work out a puzzle in an adventure game, it doesn't bring me any closer to working it out - I *still* have to use my head.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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You got a point there. But it wouldn't work for every game, for example, a game like GTA, in which brains are not asked as hand-skill. There are no hard puzzles on GTA, it's always pretty obvious what you have to do.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Is anyone at all surprised?

From IMDb...

Yet Another Delay for Blu-Ray Players, Says Chinese Paper
And the delays keep coming for Sony's Blu-ray high-definition DVD system. China's Commercial Times newspaper is reporting that Sony's production facilities have not been able to meet the demand for the diode that generates the blue laser at the heart of the HD system. Both Sony's own plants and those of Japan's Nichia Corp., the only two suppliers of the diodes, have been plagued by production problems, the newspaper said. The supply problem, it observed, could not only delay production of Blu-ray DVD players for Sony and other manufacturers, but could also delay the release of PlayStation 3 models, now scheduled for November.

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Well. As Gomer Pyle would say, "surprise, surprise, surprise!"
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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The PS3 looks awesome, no doubt. The games will be great. But first off, 600 dollars is freaking ridiculous. Few can afford that much.

And games don't cost 70 dollars. The last generation of consoles (PS2, XBox, Gamecube) all cost 50 dollars. 70 may only be twenty dollars more, but that twenty starts adding up as you buy more games. Buy two games, that's another forty. We're not all made of cash.

Also, they keep delaying it. The choice to use blu-ray discs was stupid. It seems like its never going to come out.

And I've always preferred Nintendo. Cheap, dependable products. The Wii looks awesome, and I'm much more excited about it than the PS3. The back catalogue of old games is a great feature. And its an innovative console, what with the new stlye of playing. The PS3 is not innovative. Nor is the Xbox 360. They have better graphics. Big whoop. You can see blood and guts in shooting games more clearly. So what? Nintendo keeps innovating the game medium. I'm looking forward to the Wii.

Though I've never been into consoles all that much. I prefer handhelds. They're cheap, the games are cheap, they're fun and you can take them anywhere. The Nintendo DS is one of my favorite systems of all time. An innovative way to play with good graphics and truly fun, uncomplicated games.

In short, the PS3 looks good, but I'm getting fed up with it. They keep upping the prices and delaying the system. I cast my vote for the Wii, and will ay it one more time, HANDHELDS FOREVER!!!
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
The PS3 looks awesome, no doubt. The games will be great. But first off, 600 dollars is freaking ridiculous. Few can afford that much.

And games don't cost 70 dollars. The last generation of consoles (PS2, XBox, Gamecube) all cost 50 dollars. 70 may only be twenty dollars more, but that twenty starts adding up as you buy more games. Buy two games, that's another forty. We're not all made of cash.

Also, they keep delaying it. The choice to use blu-ray discs was stupid. It seems like its never going to come out.

And I've always preferred Nintendo. Cheap, dependable products. The Wii looks awesome, and I'm much more excited about it than the PS3. The back catalogue of old games is a great feature. And its an innovative console, what with the new stlye of playing. The PS3 is not innovative. Nor is the Xbox 360. They have better graphics. Big whoop. You can see blood and guts in shooting games more clearly. So what? Nintendo keeps innovating the game medium. I'm looking forward to the Wii.

Though I've never been into consoles all that much. I prefer handhelds. They're cheap, the games are cheap, they're fun and you can take them anywhere. The Nintendo DS is one of my favorite systems of all time. An innovative way to play with good graphics and truly fun, uncomplicated games.

In short, the PS3 looks good, but I'm getting fed up with it. They keep upping the prices and delaying the system. I cast my vote for the Wii, and will ay it one more time, HANDHELDS FOREVER!!!


I think your opinions are highly representative of a majority of the gaming community - I think handhelds are on the rise, and are becoming serious software-sellers. That's why Microsoft's looking to get their piece of the pie...
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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I agree with Darth_Evil there its gonna be the bset console ever !! better then xbox360 !! I mean have you seen the ps3 it looks cool cant wait !!!!!!!
May the force be wth you .........
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I'm loving my new DS Lite as well. That system rocks. I'm still 100% stoked about the Wii and will get it, just not sure when. I still love my Cube and the DS.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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Yep, the DS Lite is one helluva system alright. I also had the original DS, and the DS Lite is what the Game Boy Advance SP was to the original GBA. It'll be the definitive version. Nintendo has even stopped advertising with the original DS. And when you think about it, the original DS wasn't the best design in the world. For one, it was huge and bulky. The DS Lite is so much better, especially with that brighter screen. It really is alot like when I uprgraded to the SP. It was a world of difference.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Quote Originally posted by: Jaster Mareel
"I mean, it's basically the same as going around saying "my religion is better than your's!"


*DarthBalls steps on soapbox* Religion divides people, spirituality brings them together, denouncing religion for a higher path is a smart choice, almost as smart as denouncing console systems for PC Gaming, thank you! *steps off soapbox*

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Hmph. I use my PC to type stuff, like I'm doing right now. But play games on it?! Nev---well, not very often! Consoles forever!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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PCs are far too unreliable to make good gaming machines.

My printer won't work. I hate the fact that my printer won't even more than I hate Sony's PS3 strategy!

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Not wishing to change the subject of the whole thread, but I must disagree with you both Gaffer and Chaltab. I love playing games on my PC. There is significantly more stuff you can do with it.
Compare playing Warcraft 2 on a PC to playing it on a Playstation (yes, it was released on PS1).
Or, if you'd rather: From a personal standpoint, I can tell you I find Star Wars: Battlefront for PC far more fun than its XBox equivilent. The pinpoint sniper accuracy I can achieve with a mouse trumps an analog stick any day of the week.

Computers are more versatile and 90% of the time backwards compatible (WinXP killed about 5-7% of that because of how it messes with most DOS games). Up until recently, net play was limited to PC, and for the most part, it still is.

Now, are there games I'd rather play on a console? Sure. Fighting and some first-person shooters just work better.
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I know there are game types that just work better on the PC. The problem is that anytime I try and play a PC game, there is always SOMETHING wrong with it. Graphics card isn't good enough, the CD drive is busted, Direct X 9.30394 is not supported by this version of Windows, blah, blah...

With a console, you get it, and every game designed for it works, and works at the same level no matter what year you bought the console.

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