I ended that scene like this.
Padme: I couldn’t do that. Could you, Anakin? Could you live like that?
Anakin: No. You’re right. (zoom). I don’t need you.
Now, a very Lawrence Kasdanesque type of ending to the scene would be to have Anakin shouting, “Or any other woman!” at the end. That may be going too far, I don’t know. If I do use this ending, I could use the original Williams music for the transition, which is much more dynamic (but inappropriate for the original ending). Anyway…
Thanks for all of your comments and questions, Andy. I don't like sugar-coating! I'll take your points one at a time (many of them have already been dealt with, however). I understand how long it takes to read this thread, so I understand how you could have missed some updates.
Originally posted by: andy_k_250
Alright, Trooperman - I finally read through this thread.
A general suggestion I have for your edits would be to view ChefElf's 64 reasons to hate "Attack of the Clones" (http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep2.php) if you've not already. You've likely seen it already, but just in case, it does offer a wide range of critiques (many of which you've already addressed). He has similar complaints about the whole saga.
Yes- I've read that before. Most of the things he had mentioned I had noted even before reading the list, though.
Lines/scenes I would like to see taken out (if they aren't already):
- "Jedi Poodoo"
- "stay away from power couplings" and the harmless shock
- the "nest of gundarks" crap and the uncomfortable laugh afterward
- Elan Slezzebaggano and his death sticks
- the Tusken raider "Ort! Orttt!" from ROTS when Palpatine mentions Anakin's mother
- "We don't serve droids?" (why not? you're a droid!)
All of that has been removed except for the death sticks scene. I got a kick out of it, and it establishes Obi-Wan's position at the bar, before Zam reveals herself. Except for the antennae on the guy, I don’t understand why people don’t like the scene.
Lines I would like to stay in (if possible):
- "You'll be the death of me."
- "Shut me down." (3P0 when he sees the factory - I know you've taken out the droid factory nonsense, with good reason, but that line cracks me up and seem very in character for 3PO - it would be great to fit somewhere into your PT)
"You'll be the death of me"- yes. "Shut me down"... no. Not in this movie, anyhow.
Things I am concerned about:
- "Also Sprach Zarathustra" to open the Obi/Anakin/Dooku duel?
No, it was distractingly familar and was not used. Instead, Count Dooku's new theme from "The Planets" was used.
- German for alien language (a lot of people know German - it's also pretty recognizable, even to people who can't understand it)
This is another recent development- the aliens are going to be speaking either Norweigan or Tagalog, not German. German was too well known.
- heavy reliance on non-SW films/soundtracks for music
I know- that's a drawback on this project. Lacking good original music for the movie, and lacking the resources to record a new soundtrack, I had to cop music from other places. There was just no getting out of it. But the important part to me is not what movie it's from, or if people have heard it before. If it produces the dramatic effect I'm looking for, then I generally go for it. I'm doing a lot of radical stuff in the interest of improving the project.
Be reassured that the final soundtrack to this won’t be a garbled, temp track style mess that doesn’t have any unity at all. Any new themes I’m introducing, I’m using leitmotiv on, as John Williams would have done. This isn’t meant to be an insult to John Williams at all; I feel confident that this soundtrack is the type of music he would have produced in the ‘70s-‘80s, with better instructions from the director.
- your voice (sorry - in the end, it is going to be the maker or breaker for this project)
Don't be sorry- several people have questioned the voice. The new dubbing is truly the biggest defining aspect of this project. Anakin's voice is probably the most critical in the whole movie, and it's being done by....a fan? You bet. There might be a couple lines that people will want redubbed in a different way, and if the viewers of the test cut reach a consensus, that’ll be possible. By and large, though, I think my ADR definitely surpasses the original. I think people will be surprised; it’s not a shocking, radical take on Anakin, it sounds very believable as a forerunner to the James Earl Jones voice. I'll be putting together a trailer soon, which will feature the new Anakin.
- I know it's awful to say this, but that test clip of Dune shots for the Clone War Battle reminded me of Turkish Star Wars - they looked like two different movies, put together, and I think I would have thought that even if I had not seen Dune. Besides, how do you reconcile the difference in armor between the Clonetroopers shown earlier and the samurai-dervish outfits from Dune? Where are they battle droids? The ships from Dune don't look like any of the vehicles on the map in the war room. I don't know, I just didn't dig it.
Again, I did some crazy things to get the type of style and shots that I wanted. The thing is, I think it'll be clear that this is from Star Wars after we cut back and forth between the Dune warriors and the clones/Jedi. Also, the troopers are set up in the secret conference with Dooku. You bring up the aircraft- if you're talking about the last shot seen in the clip, that shot's not in the final as of now.
Questions:
- Will Owen be Anakin's brother-in-law?
Nope.
- As far as the Kaminoans, is there any reason you can't have one speaking in an alien language and the other speaking English? You wrote way back that you really like the existing dialogue for one of them.
Yes, I thought Taun-We, the female alien, was done very well. It would’ve been a shame to have to dub her in a different language. And I wanted the two to speak the same language in the film. My solution was to have Lama-Su dubbed in English (with different dialogue). Nanner Split is hard at work on that, trying to set up the very difficult recording equipment.
- Did you take out the Geonosian's "Hyah!" when he whips the animal drawing Anakin and Padme's cart into the arena? My wife and I got a big kick out of that the other day, because of how anti-romantic it is following their "touching" scene, but at the same time, it works as a serious addition because of how brutal it is.
To be honest, I haven’t finished cutting that scene yet. It’ll be recut so that Anakin and Padme kiss as the music climaxes. Then, I was going to cut outside to the Geonosians cheering, so as to lose them kissing as they’re rolled out into the arena. This is a really cheesy shot in my opinion. But the short answer is yes. I’ll have them kiss, the Geonosian will whip the animal, and then we’ll cut outside to the aliens cheering as the music carries the scene.
Why was Padme missing her mid-riff, anyway?
It’s supposed to be because her shirt was ripped in her entanglement with her monster. In reality, it was Lucas pandering to modern trends. It feels extremely out-of-place, as though the sequence was put in so that she could run around the rest of the film showing her belly. It was, of course; it had no bearing on the story. Because of this, Padme gets less screen time at the end of my cut. It’s a personal irritation
- What percentage complete is this project?
I can’t really tell you that, because I have the film split up into 20 parts, and all of them are completed to some extent. Some (like the Coruscant sequence) are practically finished, except for a sound effect here or there. Others (like the clone war) I haven’t made much of a dent in. I will say that I am pretty much done from the beginning of the film until the “en route to Naboo” scene, except for Jar-Jar’s scenes and a little musical tweaking/rescoring.
- You say you like MagnoliaFan's Episode I. If you do your own, will you keep the Kaiber Crystal sub-plot in?
Sure- I’d like to. It was a good idea. However, I don’t know if my edit of Episode I will be possible. When I said that, I had vastly underestimated the amount of work and time that have to go into these. Since Ep. I is the one I technically am not needed for at all (no dubbing of Anakin required), it is likely the one I will not do.
There was a group effort to create an Ep. I that fit into my plan for the PT. These folks also wanted to extend the project to a saga re-edit (see the Starkiller Ranch thread). This was fine with me as long as my original intentions for my PT were understood.
- Your early lightsaber work - it looked bad in still frames, but how did it look in motion?
Screenshots to follow- I think you may be confusing an early attempt with my current process.
Granted, I have not seen anything near the finished product, so this is all preliminary judgement and not a fair trial of your work. Your choices are daring, so they will be great if they work, but - honestly - they will be awful if they don't. Is there any way you can repost any clips with your voice acting, or the German?
Ha ha! The trailer’s coming soon, my friend. There won’t be any German in this film, and my voice acting will be coming in the trailer. Please be confident that I would not spend so much time working on an edit highlighted by new ADR, and then botch the ADR. I realize you have no proof I’m a good actor, but I just ask you to wait and find out
Please don't take any personal offense to my comments. So far, you've encouraged discourse and criticism on your ideas, and I hope you take my ideas as the suggestions/concerns they are, not attacks. A project this big and time-consuming, I would like to see done right. Was that a Yoda line?)
Alright, Trooperman - I finally read through this thread.
A general suggestion I have for your edits would be to view ChefElf's 64 reasons to hate "Attack of the Clones" (http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep2.php) if you've not already. You've likely seen it already, but just in case, it does offer a wide range of critiques (many of which you've already addressed). He has similar complaints about the whole saga.
Yes- I've read that before. Most of the things he had mentioned I had noted even before reading the list, though.
Lines/scenes I would like to see taken out (if they aren't already):
- "Jedi Poodoo"
- "stay away from power couplings" and the harmless shock
- the "nest of gundarks" crap and the uncomfortable laugh afterward
- Elan Slezzebaggano and his death sticks
- the Tusken raider "Ort! Orttt!" from ROTS when Palpatine mentions Anakin's mother
- "We don't serve droids?" (why not? you're a droid!)
All of that has been removed except for the death sticks scene. I got a kick out of it, and it establishes Obi-Wan's position at the bar, before Zam reveals herself. Except for the antennae on the guy, I don’t understand why people don’t like the scene.
Lines I would like to stay in (if possible):
- "You'll be the death of me."
- "Shut me down." (3P0 when he sees the factory - I know you've taken out the droid factory nonsense, with good reason, but that line cracks me up and seem very in character for 3PO - it would be great to fit somewhere into your PT)
"You'll be the death of me"- yes. "Shut me down"... no. Not in this movie, anyhow.
Things I am concerned about:
- "Also Sprach Zarathustra" to open the Obi/Anakin/Dooku duel?
No, it was distractingly familar and was not used. Instead, Count Dooku's new theme from "The Planets" was used.
- German for alien language (a lot of people know German - it's also pretty recognizable, even to people who can't understand it)
This is another recent development- the aliens are going to be speaking either Norweigan or Tagalog, not German. German was too well known.
- heavy reliance on non-SW films/soundtracks for music
I know- that's a drawback on this project. Lacking good original music for the movie, and lacking the resources to record a new soundtrack, I had to cop music from other places. There was just no getting out of it. But the important part to me is not what movie it's from, or if people have heard it before. If it produces the dramatic effect I'm looking for, then I generally go for it. I'm doing a lot of radical stuff in the interest of improving the project.
Be reassured that the final soundtrack to this won’t be a garbled, temp track style mess that doesn’t have any unity at all. Any new themes I’m introducing, I’m using leitmotiv on, as John Williams would have done. This isn’t meant to be an insult to John Williams at all; I feel confident that this soundtrack is the type of music he would have produced in the ‘70s-‘80s, with better instructions from the director.
- your voice (sorry - in the end, it is going to be the maker or breaker for this project)
Don't be sorry- several people have questioned the voice. The new dubbing is truly the biggest defining aspect of this project. Anakin's voice is probably the most critical in the whole movie, and it's being done by....a fan? You bet. There might be a couple lines that people will want redubbed in a different way, and if the viewers of the test cut reach a consensus, that’ll be possible. By and large, though, I think my ADR definitely surpasses the original. I think people will be surprised; it’s not a shocking, radical take on Anakin, it sounds very believable as a forerunner to the James Earl Jones voice. I'll be putting together a trailer soon, which will feature the new Anakin.
- I know it's awful to say this, but that test clip of Dune shots for the Clone War Battle reminded me of Turkish Star Wars - they looked like two different movies, put together, and I think I would have thought that even if I had not seen Dune. Besides, how do you reconcile the difference in armor between the Clonetroopers shown earlier and the samurai-dervish outfits from Dune? Where are they battle droids? The ships from Dune don't look like any of the vehicles on the map in the war room. I don't know, I just didn't dig it.
Again, I did some crazy things to get the type of style and shots that I wanted. The thing is, I think it'll be clear that this is from Star Wars after we cut back and forth between the Dune warriors and the clones/Jedi. Also, the troopers are set up in the secret conference with Dooku. You bring up the aircraft- if you're talking about the last shot seen in the clip, that shot's not in the final as of now.
Questions:
- Will Owen be Anakin's brother-in-law?
Nope.
- As far as the Kaminoans, is there any reason you can't have one speaking in an alien language and the other speaking English? You wrote way back that you really like the existing dialogue for one of them.
Yes, I thought Taun-We, the female alien, was done very well. It would’ve been a shame to have to dub her in a different language. And I wanted the two to speak the same language in the film. My solution was to have Lama-Su dubbed in English (with different dialogue). Nanner Split is hard at work on that, trying to set up the very difficult recording equipment.
- Did you take out the Geonosian's "Hyah!" when he whips the animal drawing Anakin and Padme's cart into the arena? My wife and I got a big kick out of that the other day, because of how anti-romantic it is following their "touching" scene, but at the same time, it works as a serious addition because of how brutal it is.
To be honest, I haven’t finished cutting that scene yet. It’ll be recut so that Anakin and Padme kiss as the music climaxes. Then, I was going to cut outside to the Geonosians cheering, so as to lose them kissing as they’re rolled out into the arena. This is a really cheesy shot in my opinion. But the short answer is yes. I’ll have them kiss, the Geonosian will whip the animal, and then we’ll cut outside to the aliens cheering as the music carries the scene.
Why was Padme missing her mid-riff, anyway?
It’s supposed to be because her shirt was ripped in her entanglement with her monster. In reality, it was Lucas pandering to modern trends. It feels extremely out-of-place, as though the sequence was put in so that she could run around the rest of the film showing her belly. It was, of course; it had no bearing on the story. Because of this, Padme gets less screen time at the end of my cut. It’s a personal irritation
- What percentage complete is this project?
I can’t really tell you that, because I have the film split up into 20 parts, and all of them are completed to some extent. Some (like the Coruscant sequence) are practically finished, except for a sound effect here or there. Others (like the clone war) I haven’t made much of a dent in. I will say that I am pretty much done from the beginning of the film until the “en route to Naboo” scene, except for Jar-Jar’s scenes and a little musical tweaking/rescoring.
- You say you like MagnoliaFan's Episode I. If you do your own, will you keep the Kaiber Crystal sub-plot in?
Sure- I’d like to. It was a good idea. However, I don’t know if my edit of Episode I will be possible. When I said that, I had vastly underestimated the amount of work and time that have to go into these. Since Ep. I is the one I technically am not needed for at all (no dubbing of Anakin required), it is likely the one I will not do.
There was a group effort to create an Ep. I that fit into my plan for the PT. These folks also wanted to extend the project to a saga re-edit (see the Starkiller Ranch thread). This was fine with me as long as my original intentions for my PT were understood.
- Your early lightsaber work - it looked bad in still frames, but how did it look in motion?
Screenshots to follow- I think you may be confusing an early attempt with my current process.
Granted, I have not seen anything near the finished product, so this is all preliminary judgement and not a fair trial of your work. Your choices are daring, so they will be great if they work, but - honestly - they will be awful if they don't. Is there any way you can repost any clips with your voice acting, or the German?
Ha ha! The trailer’s coming soon, my friend. There won’t be any German in this film, and my voice acting will be coming in the trailer. Please be confident that I would not spend so much time working on an edit highlighted by new ADR, and then botch the ADR. I realize you have no proof I’m a good actor, but I just ask you to wait and find out
Please don't take any personal offense to my comments. So far, you've encouraged discourse and criticism on your ideas, and I hope you take my ideas as the suggestions/concerns they are, not attacks. A project this big and time-consuming, I would like to see done right. Was that a Yoda line?)
No, thanks for your questions. No offense taken! And you’re exactly right; with a project so big and so eagerly anticipated by everyone, I’ve been very careful that everything is done correctly. That’s why I’ve pushed the deadline a couple times; I operate on the “slow and steady” tortoise theory.
------------------------------------------------------
I made quite a large breakthrough yesterday regarding digital Yoda. I discovered that by undersampling the frame rate to around 15 fps for his close-ups, combined with a new color scheme, digital Yoda now looks incredibly puppet-like. One of the problems with the CG Yoda is that some little detail in Yoda’s face moves every single frame. 24 frames a second. This is WAY too fluid. Lowering the frame rate made his movements less fluid and made him much more puppet-like. It was incredible how a little change like that made so much difference.
Also, I finally got the dramatic effect I was missing in the nightmare scene. It involved combining two different music cues (altering pitches and keys) to get the track that I needed.
Oh, regarding the lightsaber colors- if someone wants to rotoscope different colored sabers in the arena battle and see if it turns out well, then go for it by all means. But it ain’t me! I’ve got my hands full just rotoscoping Windu’s saber. And a long while back, we had a discussion on Dooku’s saber color. I decided to leave it red because I wanted to establish that he was a bad guy and in cahoots with Sidious. That way, in Ep. III, it is more clear that Sidious double-crosses his “friends”. Also, unlike MagnoliaFan, I see no point in ambiguity at this stage in the game. From the trial scene on, it’s clear that Dooku’s a bad guy. He gave orders to kill Mace Windu, for goodness sakes!
Honestly, I’m not as interested in more colors as I am in different shades of colors. Why are the red, green, and blue values of every single blue lightsaber the same? Because the blades were computer-generated. Each blade looked different in the OT, and whether it was intentionally or not, I liked the individuality it gave the sabers.
However, I really like the idea to make the kids’ lightsabers white in the Jedi temple. Why would they have blue and green already? This is a great nod to Lucas’ original attempt to do white lightsabers with reflective tape. The thing is, the only shot I’ve left in that contains the kids is not one where they have their lightsabers lit. This concept is a good one to carry over into Ep. III.
Thanks so much for your patience, guys! I'm working like heck to complete this movie in the best way possible.
-TM