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We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans

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I know there has been much anger on how Lucas is being just a prick on this whole release, and I have been in agreement with everyone 100%. Lucas has lost my respect, and I probably will never look at him the same as I feel he is just being petty now.

But in saying that, I think there is a bigger cause we are fighting for, and it just isn't about a DVD release for our own enjoyment. If we boycott this release then Lucas claims victory and says, "See I told you nobody wanted the original versions." Then the O-OT dies a slow death that Lucas always wanted it to , then what about the next generation of fans?

In a sense we are the last bastion of fans that will keep the O-OT alive. Any new fan before Sept. 12th is being brought up on the SE, they think Hayden has always been in ROTJ, they think Jabbas first appearance in the OT is in Star Wars, and think Greedo is a really bad shot when he misses Han.

In a sense by everyone buying this release, which is not exactly what we wanted, we keep the O-OT alive for possible future releases. In a sense we are taking one for the team. We definitely have to swallow some painful medicine in giving in to King George that we will accept anything, but in a sense that will keep the O-OT alive.

I ask anyone, is it worth it to boycott this release now, and then 20 years from now, the O-OT is not even talked about by newer fans. The SE will be the OT, plain & simple. I say we buy this, cause we have an obligation to future fans that they will atleast have a choice.
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Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format. Especially if they have no pre-existing love for the material. It'll be a novelty item, perhaps suitable for play on portable media devices, but not on home theater systems. Of course, that's what it is today.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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How bad would it have to be for you too finally just shrug your shoulders and say " This isn't worth keeping. I'm being played for a fool. This is crap. I'm not buying it" ?

Personally, I'll wait to see what is actually released, then I'll make the call. It's not like you have to pre-order it or you'll never be able to buy a copy.

If I think it's crap, I won't be buying it. The idea that buying a piece of shit today means that one day I'll then have the chance to buy what I actually wanted in the first place is just idiotic. I don't have a bottomless pit of money to throw away on crap.


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Me either, but I do spend a lot of money on crap anyway.

I mean, I bought Krull, for chrissakes. And before this I never even knew about anamorphic.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format. Especially if they have no pre-existing love for the material. It'll be a novelty item, perhaps suitable for play on portable media devices, but not on home theater systems. Of course, that's what it is today.



I agree on that point, but my original point was if we buy this in droves and show there is a demand for this version, and lets say for the sake of argument, Lucas does another 180, which he seems to do every couple of years. Then he says, "I recognize there is a market that loves the original versions, and though I still see the SE as the version to watch, every release in the future will have the O-OT & SE together."

That would mean we would win, so every young fan when buying a new SW DVD set will have the option of watching the SE & O-OT, and won't be stuck in the 2004 dictator SW world where you only can watch the SE. If Lucas sees a demand for this, the money bags will light up in his eyes, and he would have to put out a good quality master next time.

My whole point is we take our medicine now, and it will be better in the future, not just for us but for the new fans that the OT awaits years down the line. After Lucas pulled this bullshit of non-anamorphic, I kinda changed my view of just wanting the O-OT on DVD for personal reasons, to a new agenda. There is no way Lucas is going to kill these versions, and now there is a bigger cause, making sure these versions don't go obsolete.

To me it isn't about us anymore, it is about our kids generation, and I don't want them to not even realize that Lucas was constantly making changes.



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I think CO makes a decent point--regardless of the quality of the release, its been so long since the OOT has been widely available that if this release fails then a whole generation will grow up without having seen it. If it takes until 2012 for an HD OOT to come out, thats over 15 years without seeing the OOT--this is literally our last chance to preserve these films for the current crop of viewers brought up on the SE and PT, who will no doubt do much more to influence future fans than we ever will.
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You guys go ahead and buy a bad product for a gamble- I'll take the advice of not buying them. Would you buy a Ford Pinto with the hope of it being release without a defective engine? Honestly Lucas is using scare tactics here.
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they think Hayden has always been in ROTJ


Well, if they're under that impression, then they're just stupid with no concept of time. Nothing we can do about that. ^_~

You mentioned taking our medicine now. We don't need medicine! We're not the ones who are sick! We shouldn't be punished. We shouldn't punish ourselves! I can pretty safely assume that the OOT is never going to be seen in the same light as the SE. It will never be released side-by-side as two different versions of the same movie. It seems it will always exist as an obscure special feature marketed as a quaint look back to a simpler time. That doesn't mean it's going to die out, though. It's been underground for the past ten years, and it's still managed to survive. It pretty much contains the same status now with this release, but it's still going to survive. Nothing's going to ever crush it, no matter how hard George tries to do so. But as long as he's fighting, it's never going to be viewed as the Star Wars Trilogy. It's going to be viewed as those old movies formerly known as the Star Wars Trilogy.

I might buy these. But if I do, it's not going to be because I'm trying to goad little Lucas to come out of his hole and release better versions. That's just us being manipulated. It will be because I feel I want the product enough to warrant spending my money on it. And that's what it all comes down to.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: CO
I agree on that point, but my original point was if we buy this in droves and show there is a demand for this version, and lets say for the sake of argument, Lucas does another 180, which he seems to do every couple of years. Then he says, "I recognize there is a market that loves the original versions, and though I still see the SE as the version to watch, every release in the future will have the O-OT & SE together."

Always in motion is the future. Here's another possible future. Star Wars fans buy the SE+OOTlbx set in droves. Lucas sees that people are still buying the SE, and he sees that even the hardcore refuseniks are satisfied by the laserdisc transfers -- no matter what those geeks at HomeTheaterForum or TheDigitalBits say. (Robert Harris probably engineered the whole kerfuffle to get a job working on Star Wars, Lucas may well think.) From then on, every future release of Star Wars contains the SE remastered to take advantage of the latest technology ... and the laserdisc master of the OOT. After all, it satisfied the whiny "Han Shot First!" crowd back in 2006, it'll surely suffice for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile, future generations start picking up this Star Wars movie their parents liked so much. These kids are all into HD video; every film they see on TV is 720p/1080i. When they pop in mom and dad's old DVD collection -- those are kind of like Blu-Ray discs, but worse, remember them? -- they think the anamorphic ones are okay, but anything less looks like crap, or at best, very very "vintage." They've been acclimated to HD video throughout their lives. They'll pick out visual artifacts you or I would never notice.

Now, when they pick up that box set of Star Wars, which version do you think they're going to instinctually prefer? The HD version. The idea that our future vid kids would watch a 1993 laserdisc master is as absurd as little Johnny iPod picking up vinyl instead of hitting iTunes. Sure, there'll be a few film buffs that insist the O-OT is intrinsically better, just as there's a niche vinyl market today, but most people will just go with what they're trained to like.

In short ... rewarding Lucas for mediocrity won't encourage excellence. It'll only encourage more mediocrity. And mediocrity may not survive into the next generation. Excellence will.

My whole point is we take our medicine now, and it will be better in the future, not just for us but for the new fans that the OT awaits years down the line. After Lucas pulled this bullshit of non-anamorphic, I kinda changed my view of just wanting the O-OT on DVD for personal reasons, to a new agenda. There is no way Lucas is going to kill these versions, and now there is a bigger cause, making sure these versions don't go obsolete.


They're already obsolete. They've been obsolete for nearly ten years. They're only going to get more obsolete in the future. I can't take part in the entrenchment of obsolescence. But you must do what you think is right.

Edit: QUOTE is not Q, durrr.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I agree with oyu CO. But I still think on the uber boxset next year we are getting theatrical cuts and SE cuts.
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Thing is, Lucas can spin the sales numbers of the new DVD set any way he likes.
"The DVD's sold well. Now the fans have what they want and I can go on and do more SE's. They can't complain. There will not be any O-OT releases after that."
"The DVD's didn't sell well wich is a clear indication that there never was demand for the O-OT"
"The DVD's sold well not because of the OT but because there were people who didn't have the SE's"

Personally I refuse to buy a product that I think is crap. I have the SE's allready and don't need second copies of those. I know they are crap allready.

I believe that the O-OT is such a remarkable piece of history that it will survive in one way or another. I don't think Lucas can bury it even if he really tried. It may take long, but the original Star Wars is such a huge phenomenon that it cannot die and therefore one day it will be available to the public in a good quality.
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Hoping a VHS and a laserdisc tape lasts longer than we think, and the X0 project surpasses the LFL release, and that there will be at least some anamorphic DVD that is uncut
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You know what? The OUT DVD is going to sell like gangbusters. Especially to a lot of people who talk about boycotting it on message boards. The greatest bluff Lucasfilm can call is on fans not slurping up what they give them, because we always do. Always. I'm sorry, but if the fart-laden Jar Jar fest can generate that much money, we've lost all our credibility in terms of what we will and won't pay for. We'll pay for whatever they give us and like it. They know it. I know it, and if you don't know it, then you don't want to know it. The 1% of the people on this board who are going to stick to their "this is bullshit" guns, are the same 1% of the people in the world who stick to ANYTHING they say. Each and every one of whom, by the way, has a beer on me next time I see them.

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

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I agree. If everyone who's ever posted here boycotts this release, it won't make a difference either way. Both the reasons for buying these discs are good enough alone:
1) best ever home video version of the OUT;
2) what CO said.
I have yet to hear a good reason not to get them.
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Is retaining one's pride a good enough reason?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: CO
I ask anyone, is it worth it to boycott this release now, and then 20 years from now, the O-OT is not even talked about by newer fans. The SE will be the OT, plain & simple. I say we buy this, cause we have an obligation to future fans that they will atleast have a choice.


There will be no "newer" fans 20 years from now. Believe me, George Lucas has seen to that. Not even the originals in their greatness can withstand the changes George Lucas made to them. now they've become good films, but not great and basically forgetable. And the prequels have no lasting redeemable value either. Only geeks who are into the nerdy sci-fi aspects of the prequels and who love George Lucas' final vision of the Jedi will still hang on to these versions. It will be a pasisng fad for the most part, and a laughable one for most people who are over the age of 16.

My only worry is that the original films, which actually were great aesthetic works, and wondrous historical achievements in their time will forever be lost and destroyed by George Lucas' petty actions.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I seriously doubt that. I wish that were true, but you know it's not going to happen like that. Most of the general public doesn't realize the changes. Even most of the older fans who do know the difference don't care enough to take a stand because it's close enough to Star Wars. And all the fans are definitely going to try to pass it down to their kids. Lucas's goal is to pass these things off as the originals. He will win when there's hardly anybody around who can tell the difference. I think we've put a big dent in his plans, though, by stirring up enough crap that it's become relevent again, and it's mainstream news about the OOT vs. SE.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Old fans will remember the way it was, but new fans will not love the prequels or understand why the original trilogy was great in light of them. Star Wars will die with this generation I believe. I could be wrong, but it seems clear to me that the final films we have now are not great art by any means and nobody is going to care enough to be devoted to them like we were with the originals. The next CGI-drenched eye candy is always around the corner for today's kids and the latest incarnations of Star Wars are just another drop in the bucket.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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i agree with CO here almost 100%. this whole thing stinks to high heaven, but, this could easily be the very last chance to preserve what we care so much about, at least for our kids.

Lucas obviously doesn't care about gauging the response of these sales. He wants to "stop" the bootlegging and pretend to appease the fans, all at the same time. They've put nothing into this release, and for him, its a chance to proliferate his own shit version once again. A peice of garbage baited with a tiny and flawed gem. but i guess, i'll take it, knowing exactly what i'm getting.

i say, if you have the money, buy 'em. but, i fully understand the reasons for not buying them.
thank the maker
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I don't have kids and I don't give a fuck about em anyway. that argument has always sounded so fucking bullshit to me, almost religious zealotry, even. I'm not asking for a good product "for the kids" anymore than I'd ask for a hi-def DVD player this christmas "For the kids."

The reasons not to buy this is that the product is sub-par. that's it. If I'm gonna settle for sub-par, I'll settle for free. And I already have. I guarantee the 4 disc set I've put together from fan preservations is going to bring "the kids" about 3 tons more enjoyment than this actual release will, AND I won't have to re-buy the 04 editions to get it. But paying money for this? No. I'm not about to be frightened into buying something that doesn't look good in the hopes I'll get to buy it again later when it DOES. that's ass-backwards.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Right on Bizzle.
LFL, at least put your upcoming discs to accepted industry standards, you pricks
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Originally posted by: The Bizzle
The reasons not to buy this is that the product is sub-par. that's it. If I'm gonna settle for sub-par, I'll settle for free. And I already have. I guarantee the 4 disc set I've put together from fan preservations is going to bring "the kids" about 3 tons more enjoyment than this actual release will, AND I won't have to re-buy the 04 editions to get it. But paying money for this? No. I'm not about to be frightened into buying something that doesn't look good in the hopes I'll get to buy it again later when it DOES. that's ass-backwards.
Right on Bizzle. These are my thoughts exactly.

War does not make one great.

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Yeah, that's what I've been saying too. Hopefully, people will listen to you.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Heh, something just struck me as funny, here: Who is making the bigger stink in this situation? The supposedly "bitchy" and "whiny" fans who say they won't get this cheap release or George Lucas who said the same release would be a test to see how well the original trilogy can sell? It seems to me that George Lucas is being far more unreasonable and bitchy. Still, our complaining should be louder than his, so we can negate his argument in the realm of public opinion.

If this DVD doesn't sell well, I'm betting our anger concerning the inferior product will speak louder than George Lucas' doubt concerning a viable market for the original trilogy. Then, imagine if this release still sells like hotcakes compared to the 2004 release? It’s a win/win for us to whine and make as loud a stink as possible, and then maybe turn around and purchase this release without actually saying so.

I should definitely write a letter to Lucasfilm this week.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005