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The Non-Biased PS3 Thread — Page 2

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I personally hope the HD-DVD side wins, but I can tell you that blu-ray will end up winning, and for one reason...

The porn industry is backing blu-ray. I saw this article about it at PCWorld, within the last month.
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Don't think it will make much difference who supports what format. In the end, most people can't use the HD formats, and don't really care at this point. They are happy with regular DVD, and don't see a reason to switch, especially since they just got off VHS a few years ago. I see HD-DVD/blu-ray becoming this generations equivilant of the laserdisc. A high-end niche market.
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Originally posted by: Number20
Don't think it will make much difference who supports what format. In the end, most people can't use the HD formats, and don't really care at this point. They are happy with regular DVD, and don't see a reason to switch, especially since they just got off VHS a few years ago. I see HD-DVD/blu-ray becoming this generations equivilant of the laserdisc. A high-end niche market.


That's exactly how I view it. Thanks for chiming in with that, Number20.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Originally posted by: Number20
Don't think it will make much difference who supports what format. In the end, most people can't use the HD formats, and don't really care at this point. They are happy with regular DVD, and don't see a reason to switch, especially since they just got off VHS a few years ago. I see HD-DVD/blu-ray becoming this generations equivilant of the laserdisc. A high-end niche market.


That's exactly how I view it. Thanks for chiming in with that, Number20.


ahh.. but the same people back in 96/97 felt the same about DVDs. and look where that's at now. this will be settled fairly soon. I have no doubt in my mind. In the meantime, i'll probably get both an HD-DVD plaayer and a ps3. because i'm a glutton for new fangled toys.

EDIT: you know, i take that back. I'll get the system with the better movies. I won't be getting this until sometime in autumn, anyway. I still have time to come to an educated decision...

EDIT²: just missed this.. i think i'll get this instead...

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There are three major differences between the VHS>DVD and the DVD>HD-DVD shift...

1. The technology was soooo different from VHS to DVD, that it was clearly noticeable. At a Sony press conference, people were ooing and ahing a demonstration of the PS3's Blu Ray player in action. Until a reporter walked up and ejected the disc afterward to discover it was simply a movie burned on DVD-R. No HD whatsoever. They couldn't tell the difference but pretended they could. And, with the current equipment that most people have, they still won't.

2. People did not need to buy a whole new TV for the difference to be noticeable. You need an HDTV for this difference to really work well. The monetary investment differential is much more significant this time around. Before, you bought a player for a couple hundred dollars and some cheap movies. Now you not only need the player, but either a new TV or a dumb-down signal translator for your old gear for a couple hundred (and why bother with that? If you're going to play on an old TV, there's no point in owning an HD-DVD player).

3. The shift to DVD promised people the opportunity to buy any and all new movies the very day they are released to video stores unlike with VHS where it could be upwards of six months to a year before you could buy a reasonably priced tape to own. No such change will exist with DVD>HD-DVD. It will still be the same day. No big difference. That was a HUGE selling point for me.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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Originally posted by: starkiller
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Geez. 50 Pounds? For an NES game? Holy crap. There is no way I'd pay $100 or more for a single video game.
I imagine the pound didn't have the same value that it has today.
I think it's always been a bit stronger than the dollar (at least in my lifetime), but it's irrelevant - to an English person, 50 pounds is 50 pounds, not 100 dollars. What I mean by that is, it wouldn't take me as long to earn 50 pounds as it would for an american to earn 100 bucks. in the mind of a English person, 50 pounds is probably of roughly the same value as 50 bucks is to an american. It's only when you travel or start buying from american websites etc and compare exchange rates that this sort of stuff comes into play. Make sense?

An example - I now live in America. I see a game selling for 50 dollars and I think to myself 'shit, that game costs 50 bucks!! That would take me X hours to earn'. I don't think 'hey, that game's only 25 pounds - sweet'.

But whatever the case, 50 pounds in the late 80s was a shitload of money, especially to a kid, and to me today it's still a lot of money. Granted, a video game can give you hours, days, weeks, even months of entertainment, so maybe it's not so bad.

War does not make one great.

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a few other differences between the switch from VHS to DVD and the DVD to HD-DVD/blu-ray.
1. VHS didn't have any special features, deleted scenes, trailers, etc for the most part. These are standard and common now. Filmmakers have started finishing scenes that before DVD would never have gotten filmed just to include them on the DVD. People love special features. HD-DVD/blu-ray and DVD both have them. So that won't be the motivator that it once was.

2. Draconian DRM on the HD formats. That is its own can of worms that I won't get into here.

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You know, all the advantages DVD had over VHS, and my family still never got a DVD player until 2002. I predict that we will be equally slow to adopt HD and/or Blue-Ray

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Take a walk into any Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, etc., and look at the display aisles. You'll know instantly where the market is going.

HDTV sales are doing quite well, and HD-on-disc will be more than a niche product.
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Marketing for HDTV makers and retailers are pushing HDTV hard. But if you look at the percentages of homes with HDTV in the US and the current market growth rate, you will see that adoption is going at a snails pace at best. It has been said that at current rates, it will take 20 to 30 years for over 60% of US households to have HDTV. They are simply too expenive for most people to own, and others don't think the difference is worth the cost. Color TV adoption in the 50's-60's was at a faster rate than HDTV. So the market may be going that way, but the rate so slow that it won't help bring HD-DVD/blu ray up with it.
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DVD really opened the general public's eyes to "HOME THEATER", moreso than laserdisc. It didn't just entice people's appetites for better picture, but also for better hardware. This is why there are so many <$500 HTIB sets at the very stores Jay mentioned. People are buying up HD sets, even though they don't have any HD sources - though in many cases, they are dissatisfied with how these new sets make some of their DVDs - and most of their analog TV signals - look.

Now, with (in most cases) the purchase of another unit, they can have an even better picture to go with their already fantastic sound.

It'll sell.

(BTW, it just occured to me: I've not seen much talk about the sound formats that HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will use. Anyone care to clue me in? AC3, PCM, Meridian Lossless packaging?)

[EDIT] I will say this. On my last trip to Fry's, I saw HD-DVD releases, and they looked rather interesting. However, when I went to the DVD player section, there were no HD-DVD players. At best, I saw players that would upconvert to 720P. Has anyone done any research on those? (not that I intend to spend money on a stopgap technology, but I was just curious.)

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The Best Buy near my house had a Toshiba HD-A1 with Serenity on display last time I was there(woulda preferred to see Apollo 13).

I think that HD-DVD is going to win by virtue of being inferior in technology, the fact that the lynchpin of Blu-ray, the PS3, isn't looking so hot right now, and the fact the Sony is one of the cheif backer's of Blu-ray.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Originally posted by: Number20
Don't think it will make much difference who supports what format. In the end, most people can't use the HD formats, and don't really care at this point. They are happy with regular DVD, and don't see a reason to switch, especially since they just got off VHS a few years ago. I see HD-DVD/blu-ray becoming this generations equivilant of the laserdisc. A high-end niche market.


My family's still not off the VHS in a true sense. The only DVD players we have are the XBox and the PC...
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Originally posted by: Number20
But if you look at the percentages of homes with HDTV in the US and the current market growth rate, you will see that adoption is going at a snails pace at best. It has been said that at current rates, it will take 20 to 30 years for over 60% of US households to have HDTV.

Bolded for emphasis. Adoption rates will pick up as prices continue to drop. And within five years, every TV sold at retail will be HD compatible.


Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
(BTW, it just occured to me: I've not seen much talk about the sound formats that HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will use. Anyone care to clue me in? AC3, PCM, Meridian Lossless packaging?)

[EDIT] I will say this. On my last trip to Fry's, I saw HD-DVD releases, and they looked rather interesting. However, when I went to the DVD player section, there were no HD-DVD players. At best, I saw players that would upconvert to 720P. Has anyone done any research on those? (not that I intend to spend money on a stopgap technology, but I was just curious.)


Initial releases will most likely feature standard DD/DTS soundtracks to maintain compatibility with older audio equipment. Every release needs to have DD for this very reason. I think the most popular codecs used on HD-DVD and BluRay after production ramps up will be the new lossless codecs from Dolby (Dolby TrueHD) and DTS (DTS-HD).

The only HD-DVD players out right now are Toshiba's. At Best Buy, they set up a special endcap with a Westinghouse 1080p LCD to demo the material. It's really nice. BluRay is launching next month, and I'm curious to see how the marketing compares to HD-DVD's, which is dreadful. Samsung's player is coming out next month with LG, Pioneer, Panasonic, and Sony following with BluRay players in August/September.
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My concern with Blu-ray is that so much of it is riding on the PS3 right now. And since there is a lot of consumer badwill towards the PS3 at the moment. If that carries over until 11/17, Blu-ray could look mightily fucked.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Originally posted by: skyman8081
My concern with Blu-ray is that so much of it is riding on the PS3 right now. And since there is a lot of consumer badwill towards the PS3 at the moment. If that carries over until 11/17, Blu-ray could look mightily fucked.


I think gamers are overestimating the potential effect of the PS3 on BluRay's success in much the same way they often overstate the PS2's effect on DVD's success. DVD would be exactly where it is today even if the PS2 hadn't supported DVD playback.

If BluRay is to survive, it'll be on its own merits as a home video platform.
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Originally posted by: Jay
Originally posted by: skyman8081
My concern with Blu-ray is that so much of it is riding on the PS3 right now. And since there is a lot of consumer badwill towards the PS3 at the moment. If that carries over until 11/17, Blu-ray could look mightily fucked.


I think gamers are overestimating the potential effect of the PS3 on BluRay's success in much the same way they often overstate the PS2's effect on DVD's success. DVD would be exactly where it is today even if the PS2 hadn't supported DVD playback.

If BluRay is to survive, it'll be on its own merits as a home video platform.


I agree with you that Blu-ray needs to survive on its own merits as a video platform. Unfortunately Sony also seems to fallen into that same mentality that the PS3 is going to magically sell Blu-ray like they think the PS2 did with DVD. Sony is assuming that the PS3 will sell Blu-ray, when Blu-ray needs to sell the PS3.

For the purposes of a game console this generation, Blu-ray is too much. I would wager that DVD-9 is an upper limit for size for practicality reasons alone. It is not cost effective for studios to create content that justifies going beyond DVD-9. The PC Version of "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" only uses 4.5 GB, and that game is considered one of the biggest games on the market. It was even rumored to span 4 DVD's. The marginal utility of making larger textures and worlds is not enough to justify the cost of a Blu-ray drive in the PS3.

Sony seems to have bet the farm on the success of the PS3. If the PS3 doesn't sell, which is a very likely possibility now, than their strategy for Blu-ray is sunk.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Heh heh...

http://cad-comic.com/comics/20060623.jpg
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Even Control Alt Delete is now disenchanted with Sony. That E3 press confference totally killed them.

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Something tells me the whole Blu-Ray issue is going to be the final straw in the PS3 disaster. Although technically inferior and not backed up by as many studios as the blue-ray, the simple fact that it got a start before the blu-ray makes me belive it'll come up victorious. It will be too early, in november, for the blu-ray to bea mainstream media platform, and not justifiable to buy it merely for this. Summed by the lack of inovation, the bad-mouthing of the industry and the internet community, the high price, and the Wii, it all sums up to be a major flop.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I'm starting to wonder if both formats won't be a flop.

I don't *want* to adopt a new format. It took me years to even adopt DVD, and I could see clear benefits to adopting it as a format. Now there's a new format (two, rather) on the horizon for which I see no clear benefits; only deficits in my bank account. I will adopt a high definition high-capacity format when I am forced to, because I don't see myself wanting to make the transition.

If my thinking is representative of the general public, then anyone's taking a financial risk on a new format at this stage.
MTFBWY. Always.

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I wouldn't complain, it is going to be the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market
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IF the PS3 does flop, I wonder what will happen to the Final Fantasy franchise? It's been almost exclusive to Sony for nearly a decade. Hironobu Sakaguchi recently started working on some X-Box games, so it could be logical that it could drift to Microsoft. But then again, SE and Nintendo patched up their differences with the merger and a lot of fringe (and remake) titles have been on Nintendo systems, so they could be heading back to their original home.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: theredbaron
Check out this ultimate PS3-hating video! It's an adaptation of the Death Star trench scene by a website called Wii60 (basically, a flip-the-bird to Sony website). Slighty tacky but hil-frickin'-larious!

Console Wars Episode IV: Nintendo's New Hope


LOL truly bizarre

I truly belive Square is going to get back to Nintendo with their heads down...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering