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The Reason the OOT was released

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I finally figured it out.

I thought maybe Lucasfilm genuinely wanted to please fans under the new management of Jim Ward. Then I thought maybe Lucasfilm saw an untapped market that they could profit off. But the whole Laserdisk-transfer thing completely threw me for a loop; it would be so easy to make a high-quality transfer from the original negative. Its always like they went out of their way to screw with us. Then i figured it out.

They are doing it to stop us from what we are doing, in some sense. They are doing it to stop bootlegers.

Think about it. If they cared at all they would spend a measily few thousand dollars to scan an original 35mm print of the OOT. But they are simply porting the Laserdisk. What is being bootleged like crazy out there? The OOT Laserdisk.

Its about stopping bootlegs. As long as they put a version out that is of equal quality as the bootlegs--which, luckily for them, is not very good--they bootlegs will suddenly stop and all that lost profit will go to them. Thats why its being sold as a low-quality "bonus", and why Lucasfilm says they have no plans now or in the future to re-master the OOT. They never intended to and never will--the only reason this is happening is because the bootlegs have gotten more out of control than they ever thought. So tossing out a non-anamorphic laserdisk transfer suddenly nullifys the LD-rip bootleg market.

Its about $$. Thats all. They dont care about fans and they dont care about us. They just want the money.
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Well hey, I'd rather buy a damn bootleg than put more $$$ in Lucash's pockets. I'm done with the guy, if there's a more devious and dishonest filmmaker out there i'd like to know about it.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
I finally figured it out.

Oh, did you now? Did it come to you in a vision?

Remember kids. Lucasfilm is a giant unyealding centiant mass that only wants to consume your soul and crush your dreams. Everyone who works there has wet dreams about screwing fans over.




(ha ha, I kid. Only Lucas does that.)
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I am sure that is one reason. Now we can no longer claim them preservation projects, now they will be entirely illigitimate (however not in every sense). But honestly, I wonder how many people actually own the bootlegs? The majority of fans nowadays is content with the 04 DVDs. And not all the ones that aren't content own them, so in actuallity really very few own bootlegs. I obtained my to hold me off until there was an official DVD release, but then that didn't turn out to be worth peeing on, then there was a second release, and as it turned out it was also not worth peeing on. Now we are on release number three in three years, and it honestly isn't worth peeing on.

All we ever wanted was a DVD quality version of the films we grew up on. They said no can do, it doesn't exsist anymore. So we found it and made it ourselves. Now they are giving us the same thing we made ourselves. I really don't see how this should encourage us to buy it. If it is all to stop bootlegging he is only giving us what we already have, just a slight better.

The whole thing is honestly retarded, it is actually quite unbelievable. I refuse to play there games. How many time do you have to buy of film before you leagally own it? How many times? I have bought it four times already and that is with never buying any of the DVDs. Should my LD backups still be considered bootlegs? Am I a pirate for owning what I own?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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So tossing out a non-anamorphic laserdisk transfer suddenly nullifys the LD-rip bootleg market.


to that end, I encourage those who have the means to make transfers better than the laserdiscs, such as OCP's classic editions- re doing them to elimnate the light framing jumps when a SE scene is edited out.

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Originally posted by: Sanctuary_Moon
Well hey, I'd rather buy a damn bootleg than put more $$$ in Lucash's pockets. I'm done with the guy, if there's a more devious and dishonest filmmaker out there i'd like to know about it.


Unfortunately, this is the wrong attitude. This condones piracy and bootlegging, which is counterproductive to the goal of a legitimate, proper transfer of the unmolested trilogy -- not to mention it puts your personal liberty in jeopardy. This release completely puts LD projects on the black market. If you were to purchase or even trade for a bootleg from a sting operation or a monitored source, your only defense will be ownership of the official version.

If you are not selling an alternate treatment, and if you've purchased the only official treatment available, they can try to charge you or sue you, but they'll find it damn hard to get a sympathetic jury. You'd have the best defense possible: "I purchased the real thing. I wasn't selling illegal copies. So where is the crime?"

"Lucas is an asshole and I want to steal back from him" unfortunately is not an airtight defense. It's merely a point of view that does not respect the rule of law.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Dammit ADM, now you just gave me a logical and legal reason to buy the damn official releases.

I've have the laserdiscs and the 04 DVDs so I guess I was safe there.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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I agree, Harlock, and I'm glad you brought the issue up.

For those of you who have the '93 Laserdiscs, I see positively no reason to purchase the DVD. You already have an official version struck from the exact same master. Having an LD -> DVD project is nothing more than an archive of material you own so my statement above applies in your case as well. If you aren't selling rips, and you shelled out friggin $250 for the Definitive Collection set, you've made a nice payment towards that Star Wars license.

It would be an interesting legal argument that you'd probably lose if you had a pirate of the official O-OT DVD as your archive, but even that would make an interesting case that has yet to be tried. I think you'd actually be in clearer territory just owning the X0 project or whatever as the definitive archive of your LDs.

Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, so none of my statements are legal advice. Just legal speculation.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
For those of you who have the '93 Laserdiscs, I see positively no reason to purchase the DVD. You already have an official version struck from the exact same master.



Yes, and no.

I own the 1993 Laserdiscs, and am still buy this DVD set. Why? Because the DVD format offers a sharper quality. It's from the same master, but the two are very different formats. You could easily say the same thing for taking the LD master and putting it to VHS print. It's the same master, but on two different mediums.

LD has what I like to call "digital dust." It's like hair, grain and dust on a projecter film, but it's usually white, or prisim colored. And it's on the whole screen, black bars included. (Really obvious on my ALIEN laserdisc)

Plus, I don't want to have to flip the disk over or put in the second disk anymore. I grew up on that for 10 years (not complaining). I think it is time to upgrade.

"We will then crush the rebellion with one swift stroke." *flip disk*
"Where are we? Open the presure matinance hatch at 426-3827!" *new disk*

"No, there is another." *new disk*

It was fun as a kid. My brother and I would start scooting towards the LD player at the beginning of the line and be there to change the disk right at the cut. Even today, still. (I just watched ANH with him like a couple of months ago.)
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I don't buy the argument that Lucas is releasing the OOT to stop preservation projects or bootleggers. Its not legally correct. If Lucas really wanted to shut down the XO project or other preservation projects, he wouldn't need to release the OOT. Lucasfilm has the copyright on Star Wars, and can choose what media to release it on, or at all. If Lucas decided that he would just sit on Star Wars and never release it at all in any form to anyone, he is within his legal rights, and can still sue and shut down anyone else who releases it. Its my opinion that Lucas is releasing the OOT simply because there has been too much demand for it. Is he doing it justice? No way. But there has been unyeilding demand for the OOT. I doubt that Lucas really cares one way or another about the things we do here. This site isn't exactly hidden away. Lucasfilm has to know about us, but doesn't care.
The thing that scares me, though, is that people saying on here that they won't buy the official DVD's, but instead will get various copies here, might attract Lucasfilm lawyers. I for one will probably end up buying the OOT on DVD, even if I'm unhappy about it. Hopefully, someone on here will "fix" it, and make it anamorphic, and perhaps add in the alternate audio tracks as available.
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See, I agree 100% with the original post. What you have to realize is that Lucasfilm isn't necessarily going after us, but rather the bootleg market as a whole. OT.com represents only a tiny fraction of that market. For every copy that somebody gets here, there are hundreds if not thousands sold through Ebay, personal webpages, trade shows, ect. It actually is a pretty lucrative market, and could add up to a few million dollars, which isn't chump change, even to Lucasfilm. This way they can legally (and more effectively) lay waste to the bootleg market. I bet we'll see people (hopefully nobody here) get served with lawsuits and/or cease-and-desist letters on Sept 13th.
40,000 million notches away
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Bootlegging is already illegal. This release doesn't change that. This theory was discussed right after the release was announced.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I agree, Harlock, and I'm glad you brought the issue up.

For those of you who have the '93 Laserdiscs, I see positively no reason to purchase the DVD. You already have an official version struck from the exact same master. Having an LD -> DVD project is nothing more than an archive of material you own so my statement above applies in your case as well. If you aren't selling rips, and you shelled out friggin $250 for the Definitive Collection set, you've made a nice payment towards that Star Wars license.

It would be an interesting legal argument that you'd probably lose if you had a pirate of the official O-OT DVD as your archive, but even that would make an interesting case that has yet to be tried. I think you'd actually be in clearer territory just owning the X0 project or whatever as the definitive archive of your LDs.

Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, so none of my statements are legal advice. Just legal speculation.

I am a lawyer [almost; I'll be called to the bar in August]. The defence you are using is what is known as the fair use doctrine, and was the defence used in the "home taping " cases of the 1980s. The same logic still applies: Why should I have to go out and buy a brand spankin' new version of something I already own in order to play it on a different machine? In the late 70s-early 80s, it was albums being recorded to cassettes for use in car stereos. The same logic can be applied to "ripping" CDs you legitimately own for the purpose of burning them to a recordable CD in MP3 format for a car deck or transferring them to a portable MP3 player. The DMCA or Digital Millenium Copyright Act tries to circumnavigate this by throwing in all sorts of mumbojumbo with respect to copy-protected material, but the principle has yet to be tested before the courts, mostly because the music and film industries are still hung up on "catching the pirates."

Since I don't own an LD player or any copies of Star Wars on LD, this decision still really pi$$es me off.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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The DMCA or Digital Millenium Copyright Act tries to circumnavigate this by throwing in all sorts of mumbojumbo with respect to copy-protected material, but the principle has yet to be tested before the courts, mostly because the music and film industries are still hung up on "catching the pirates."


Fortunately, laserdisc videos are neither digital nor copy protected. I think they fall under the old regime of backup copies and shifting media to another format. Such actions only become illegal if you have to break some hare-brained weak crypto scheme to undertake them. Star Wars laserdiscs are also going real cheap on eBay these days; you can probably get the whole trilogy for less than the cost of the new DVDs. (please oh please no one outbid me)
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I'm not saying they are doing it to throw us in jail or anything, perhaps those selling the disks, but clearly there is a market for the OOT that LFL is losing out to.

Lucas even said that the only reason they released the 2004 SE so early as opposed to the original plan of 2007 was because bootlegs were becoming so widespread. I think he may have included a similar statement recently regarding the OOT.

But i have no doubt that it IS because of bootlegers. Go to ebay--theres tons of copies of the OOT being sold for very high prices. Thats money that goes to Lucasfilm's pocket if they put out official copies. Additionally, they probably figure that since an official pressing of the LD master will be better than any possible LD preservation we can do, the fan preservation community will suddenly wither away since their efforts will no longer have any use.

Thats why this release is so balls. They dont have to put any effort into it--just dig up the Laserdisk master and put it out on dvd. Instantly, both bootlegers and fan-preservationists will be out of work (and yes, despite the amazing results of XO I am very sure, unfortunately for them, that the official disk will be somewhat better in picture quality). Tack on the original opening crawl as a bit of extra incentive and you have them. Everything is in Lucasfilm's pocket. All those people shelling out two hundred dollars for bootlegs will instantly fork out money for even better official versions at a fraction of the price (with no legal reprecusions) and once all the people who have waited all this time for the dvd have bought it--ie january--the release can be pulled.

I thought maybe Lucas changed his mind about "the films are dead" thing, but it seems he hasnt. The only reason its being thrown out at all is because he is losing massive amounts of money to bootlegers. So he throws out some half-assed version for a limited time and problem solved. I'm thinking maybe the OOT will never be properly archived for home video beyond the original Laserdisk D2 tape from 1993. Maybe our best efforts will be fundraising for a proper 4k scan of a 35mm print from a private collector (seriously).
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That is a pretty good theory, but I still think they really don't know there is a demand out there for this set, and I think they are just as anxious as us to see the results. I just think the non-anamorphic release says they think it wont sell well, so they are not going to put too much money in this release. But if the results are positive to them that these sold well, then I believe Lucas will then change his mind.

I think they look at the outcry for the O-OT as a niche group who is yelling and screaming for them, not the masses. Whatever you want to say the 2004 DVD releases sold very well, so in Lucas's mind, who is really left?

But that is where if this set sells well, then Lucas can say, "I guess alot of fans were left, maybe it wasn't that niche group we thought it was."

I think the OT crowd has three groups now:

1. SE lovers
2. O-OT lovers
3. Both

And I think #3 is what Lucas is missing. I have three friends who bought the 2004 set, and enjoy it, but weren't as steadfast as me about wanting the O-OT, but all have stated on Sept. 12th they are buying it. And all of them tolerate Hayden in ROTJ, but I still think once they watch the O-OT for the first time in 10 years, they will wonder why they haven't clamored for it.

If this set sells well, then Lucas will realize the maxium audience he can sell future sets is to have both versions included, cause there isn't just one group of fans anymore who love the OT.

And I refuse to believe any bullshit in that press release, "We have no plans to release this ever again." That is just being a smart businessman, cause if they said, we will put out an Anamorphic Version in 2007, then who would buy this one? Devious yes, smart, yes.
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Um yeah. Bootlegging is theivery so I'm all for legit ways to get stuff. I aint a cheapass.
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I really think Jim Ward wanted to please us and then GL stepped in.
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I agree with Darth Richard. It sounds like LFL really does want to release them nicely and give them what they deserve. Lucas himself, however, is doing what he can to prevent that.

And sadly, he can do a lot.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
I agree with Darth Richard. It sounds like LFL really does want to release them nicely and give them what they deserve. Lucas himself, however, is doing what he can to prevent that.

And sadly, he can do a lot.


Ya cuz for years LFL had been talking about releasing them. I think when they tried in 2005 GL made them jsut use the SE disc. And Now I think Jim Ward actaully announced it before GL knew and after he found out he stepped in and made them use the 93 LD master instead of the using the pint that was cleaned again last year.
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Originally posted by: Darth Richard
I really think Jim Ward wanted to please us and then GL stepped in.


I agree.

Perhaps George is telling the truth when he thinks there is no market that would pay for the original trilogy. It's completely idiotic of him, but with his recent creative oddities that's not too hard to believe about him now is it? Stopping bootleggers has little to do with this I believe. If anything, the success of bootleggers merely increased Lucasfilm's interest.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005