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The Official Lucasfilm Response — Page 2

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Originally posted by: rennervision
Well, I can tell you I'm beyond boycotting this DVD release. I'm now boycotting anything associated with Lucasfilm.


What? You won't be getting Radioland Murders, which will be anthromorphic DVD?
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Well...

They release a special edition in '97 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They do a special edition 2.0 in '04 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They say the releases will finally come out -- but will look like shit, deal with it.

The line must be drawn HERE! This far, no further.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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Originally posted by: Harlock415
Well...

They release a special edition in '97 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They do a special edition 2.0 in '04 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They say the releases will finally come out -- but will look like shit, deal with it.

...

Exactly. Lucass is known for going back on his word, so I don't think the fight is over.

I suspect we'll get something new next year as well. The fact that he's releasing them this september tells me something. I agree with the post above this is probably a ploy to sell all those unsold 2004 DVDs. The fact that the 30th anniversary is NEXT year, well I have a hard time believing this is the only OOT release we'll see. I have a feeling he'll do something nice for that and hopefully fix the 2004 versions as well (yes more changes, but the set is broken). Next year I'm seeing a new box set with the PT, 2004 (hopefully fixed), and OOT cleaned up and in an anamorphic transfer with a bunch of extras we haven't gotten yet. Hell, we already know the footage exsists, it's IN THE EMPIRE OF DREAMS DOCUMENTARY for crying out loud.

EDIT: Spelling.
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It's not even a case of going back on his word - it's just that he doesn't seriously think about what he's saying, or the consequences of his decisions.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: yanksno1
Originally posted by: Harlock415
Well...

They release a special edition in '97 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They do a special edition 2.0 in '04 -- the originals are never coming out -- and we fall back.

They say the releases will finally come out -- but will look like shit, deal with it.

...

Exactly. Lucass is known for going back on his word, so I don't think the fight is over.

I suspect we'll get something new next year as well. The fact that he's releasing them this september tells me something. I agree with the post above this is probably a ploy to sell all those unsold 2004 DVDs. The fact that the 30th anniversary is NEXT year, well I have a hard time believing this is the only OOT release we'll see. I have a feeling he'll do something nice for that and hopefully fix the 2004 versions as well (yes more changes, but the set is broken). Next year I'm seeing a new box set with the PT, 2004 (hopefully fixed), and OOT cleaned up and in an anamorphic transfer with a bunch of extras we haven't gotten yet. Hell, we already know the footage exsists, it's IN THE EMPIRE OF DREAMS DOCUMENTARY for crying out loud.

EDIT: Spelling.


Ya really he is releasing a TON of stuff on that boxset next year. Your heard what Mckalilm (or how ever you spell his name lamo) talked about find everything that hasn't been released for the 30th ann.
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Very frustrating.

Yes, I am frustrated that we won't be getting decent quality DVDs, but what I find really appalling is the disregard for preservation of these historic works, because they don't fit in with George Lucas' current "vision of the movies" (which seems to be constantly changing). Has any other creator of even a moderately successful movie ever despised the theatrical cut this much?
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I'm seriously considering gathering everything SW-related into a big-ass box and mailing it off to Lucasfilm. Along with it, a nice little letter to the effect of, "If you don't want to treat these historic films with the respect they deserve, I'm done with you. I have excellent LD rips of the OUT that look at least as good as your DVDs will, and that's all I'll ever need if that's all you're willing to give us. Thanks anyway, though."
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Well if we look at well liked films...apparently Ridley Scott and Blade Runner. Maybe Woody Allen's Manhatten.

Then there's the theatrical cut of Once Upon a Time in America as opposed to Sergio Leone's preferred version. But the theatrical one was not well liked.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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Originally posted by: yanksno1

Lucass is known for going back on his word, so I don't think the fight is over.

EDIT: Spelling.


the fight is over this time around. "Lucass" ha you sure are clever.

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Yep. I got that same response to my e-mail today.

At least they noticed--I halfway expected they would never say anything more about it at all. They must have been inundated with messages protesting their shoddy treatment. It's something.

I was ready to just say forget it, but The Bizzle makes a very good point--they've paid us this level of attention so far, maybe we can keep pushing them and get more results. It'll be a long, slow, torturous process, but something could still come of all this. Who knows?

It's absurd, this rubbish about the laserdisc master being the best they've got around. Give me an effin' break, here. We're not even asking for a huge and painstaking restoration project (hell, a slightly dirty picture is how I grew up watching it on VHS to begin with, and the uber-cleaned '04 picture looks unnatural to me). We just want it to be from something of higher resolution and that won't have black bars ON ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE PICTURE. Cripes. Define stubborn?

What other director has ever treated his own works with such contempt, indeed. None I've ever heard of. If freaking King Kong can be put back together at over 40 years older than SW, then I just don't buy their pathetic excuses at all.
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you know, it would be pretty easy just using the SE restored masters, cutting out the Special Edition stuff and restoring around roughly less than 20 minutes of original non-SE footage done like the SE's (frame-by-frame) and simply adding them into the SE version, and mixing in the old soundtrack!

there is absolutely no kind of HUGE labor into this process, theoratically... and being nice to the fans (who started the phenomenon AND gave George all that money) by releasing great quality ANAMORPHIC DVD with just less than 20 minutes of non-SE footage needed to be THX-ified... mostly it's just cutting out SE junk.

right? Easy...


that's pretty mean what they did, by the way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Lord_Phillock/starwarssig.png

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Originally posted by: Harlock415
Well if we look at well liked films...apparently Ridley Scott and Blade Runner. Maybe Woody Allen's Manhatten.

Then there's the theatrical cut of Once Upon a Time in America as opposed to Sergio Leone's preferred version. But the theatrical one was not well liked.


Nearly all of Leone's theatrical cuts, were cuts done by United Artists, in the sense they would always get final word on him. Such as cutting any references to the Eastwood character to allow a "man with no name" campaign throught the movies he made.

For example The Good, Bad, and the Ugly Special Edition DVD, is the full uncut movie which premiered in Italy, never seen outside of Italy. After that premiere, UA cut it up and changed it before releasing it worldwide.
Only in this SE DVD have MGM gone back and obtained the Italian release cut, and then re-recorded the actors voices, or used voice impersonators for the actors no longer with us, to make an english version of the true theatrical cut available. English dialogue never existed for these scenes, as they were cut from the movie before an English language track was recorded.

Once Upon a time in America, was also cut back against Leone's wishes and control, as James Coburn laments on the interview included in that release.


The difference with George Lucas is that he got the cuts he wanted with the film that was shot. What he never got, was all the shots filmed that he wanted to be able to do, due to the technology and/or budget of that time, which is different to a director's cut that restores what they wanted to show, that the studio prevented them from doing. The SW SE's should be known as "Director still tinkering with movie after 20-30 years" edition.


RATLSNAKE
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jeez....there really are no words...


for the mildly annoyed:

http://home.comcast.net/~fatned/what.gif


for the pissed off:

http://home.comcast.net/~fatned/error-message1.jpg


for the I'm so f-ing angry I'm going to pop an artery!:

http://home.comcast.net/~fatned/tombstone.jpg
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I think what everybody is saying here in response to the response, should be emailed back to lucasfilm. We all know how we feel. Let them know how we feel. Start cutting and pasting the posts here and flood them with emails. Hell, even hard copies.

On another note, since "we have no plans – now or in the future – to restore the earlier versions" if I buy it in Sept, and they release it AGAIN next year, improved, can I sue? They are now on record as saying this is all we are going to get, ever.
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The trick is to hit em with common sense on this. Being antagonistic (while we ALL WANT TO DO IT) won't get anything done. Hell, the fact we forced them to issue a press release and give interviews to the industry mags really says something. If we keep pressing on this, something might actually happen. I'm not naive enough to think it WILL DEFINITELY, but it's a shot, and the last shot we took actually DID HIT SOMETHING.

So if you're going to continue emailing publicity@lucasfilm.com, basically let them know this:

By commissioning a new, no-frills transfer from quality elements (that we know they DO HAVE) and giving us an anamorphically encoded DVD of that transfer, they ensure

a) Their standing as a top of the line company when it comes to a/v quality is upheld
b) The fans they're marketing this release to are actually enticed to buy it
c) They profit more from the number of copies sold to those fans who otherwise weren't picking this thing up.

I mean, by spending the money it takes to have Robert Harris (or even their own in-studio guy) doing this new transfer, they stand to win all the way around. But if they maintain on their present course, they lose sales, they lose face in the industry, and they lose respect from potential customers.

It's really easy. They gave us an answer--we give them common sense back. It's in their best interests to do this. We just gotta let em know we'll be there if they do this. Most of us WANT to buy this thing. Not with a 13 year old transfer for a dead format. Not when, for the first time on a Star Wars DVD ever, we get a non-anamorphic extra. And the irony is that the first non-anamorphic extra--is the 1977 Original Theatrical Version of Star Wars. that seems backwards.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
I wanted you to know how much we appreciate the passion and enthusiasm you have for Star Wars, and thank you for sharing your concerns about our upcoming DVD release.

The DVDs being released in September will contain two versions of Star Wars: Episodes IV, V and VI – the Special Editions (which represent George’s vision of the movies) and the first versions, which will be included as bonus material. We hoped that releasing those “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs. We certainly did not want it to become a source of concern or frustration for any of our fans.

As you may know, an enormous amount of effort was put into digitally restoring the negatives for the Special Editions. In one scene alone, nearly 1 million pieces of dirt had to be removed, and the Special Editions were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.

So many fans have requested the original movies, we wanted to find a way to bring them to you. But since these movies do not represent George's artistic vision, we could not put the extraordinary time and resources into this project as we did with the Special Editions. The 1993 Laserdisc masters represented the best source for providing the original versions as DVD bonus material. Although these are non-anamorphic versions, they do preserve the original widescreen composition of the movies.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans – now or in the future – to restore the earlier versions.

We hope you will understand our decision and, again, want to let you know how much we appreciate your interest and enthusiasm.

Sincerely,
Lynne Hale
publicity@lucasfilm.com



hahaha well i saw that one coming, i do beleive that in the 'make your voices heard (again)' thread i said everything that she said in there letter, last week. hahaha i find that very funny, and people said i gave them too much credit.

like i said b4 alot of work was done into restoring the film to even get the faces set ready, do you really think they are going to redo all that for one feature when they already have it sitting right beside them. they wont, know one would. just forget its starwars and think to your self would you redo the whole thing. its like saying oh i wrote a 1000 page book and i found some grammer errors, so now i am going to re-write the entire book from scratch jsut to please a few people.
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That's a stupid analogy. No one's asking to re-write the book. That would be the Special Editions. Just print the old book on better pages. It happens ALL THE TIME in the publishing world. Or in the music world, when CD's are remastered.

The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
hahaha well i saw that one coming, i do beleive that in the 'make your voices heard (again)' thread i said everything that she said in there letter, last week.


Yeah, but just because YOU are using the same narrow-minded arguments that press people are supposed to use to shut people up... fortunately that's not gonna work.

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its not narrow minded its practical. what is narrowminded is the fact you dont accept that as a reasonable excuse, cause it is. you may not like it but the bottem line is that it is a reasonable excuse they dont want to spend the time and money to remake the prints for the few fans that want them, its a question of whether its worth there time. spend millions to re do work they already have and sell maybe 250 000 of them. lets do some math, ok say you sell that many, and at 40 bucks a pop, thats 10 mill for each movie, 30 mill total for gross. now how much is the resoration going to cost them, i would say at the very least 5 - 10 million for each film cause there is alot of work to go from the original film to even the 93s. ok to be fair we will say 7.5 mill each, ok so thats 22.5 mill to make the things. now stores need to make money lets say and this si very generous that stores make 10 bucks on each dvd. ok so there we have what 250 000 times 10 times 3. thats 7.5 mil, add that to the 22.5 mill already to make the things, thats 30 mill right there. now what about the costs of advertising, and shipping and packaging and all of that. the bottem line is that they dont want to do it. and they have a legitmate reason. you may not like it, or think its fair, but look at it from there pov. i know they have made billions off you so what if they have a loss of a few mill on some dvd. well they care.
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Here is my respons to Lucasfilm:


Dear people at Lucasfilm,

first, I really much appreciate that you finally have taken the first step to communicate with your fan/customer base. This is a very good base now to establish a dialogue, from which both sides can benefit.

> The DVDs being released in September will contain two versions of Star
> Wars: Episodes IV, V and VI – the Special Editions (which represent
> George’s vision of the movies) and the first versions, which will be
> included as bonus material. We hoped that releasing those
> “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some
> additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs. We
> certainly did not want it to become a source of concern or frustration for
> any of our fans.

Lots of frustration could have been avoided, if you would have given more thought about the nature of this release, by asking yourself: what is the target group? You are defining the original versions as BONUS material, which is fine, since we all are supposed to like and love the Special Editions. However, by announcing the release of the original versions of these films, and clearly addressing US, in the first press releases ("numerous fans have demanded this...."), you are clearly making the supposed BONUS feature as the main feature of this set. Everyone already has either bought the 2004 SE DVD editions or the bare bones DVD´s of the SE in 2005. So this release is clearly about the original unaltered trilogy.

Did you come to notice that the original versions of the movie would be the first non-anamorphic BONUS feature you are packing with a DVD set? Even the few scenes of the original trilogy, which clearly prove the source material came from an unaltered print, which are shown in the "Empire of Dreams" documentary (e.g.: the origional pre EPIV tectcrawl with all original logos intact, the original Death Star Explosion, the original scene where Han runs after the storm trooper (...)) are, you may already guess it, SHOWN ANAMORPHICALLY!

> As you may know, an enormous amount of effort was put into digitally
> restoring the negatives for the Special Editions. In one scene alone,
> nearly 1 million pieces of dirt had to be removed, and the Special
> Editions
> were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives
> of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special
> Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.

While I certainly would love to believe you, the already mentioned "Empire of Dreams" documentary proves you wrong. Here, numerous scenes from the original unaltered movies are shown there in very good quality, which proves that good film elements still exists. Perhaps let me point of a misundertsnading, which seems to have arisen from our protests:

We don´t want a FRAME by FRAME digital restauration. We just want an anamorphic transfer from a good film source. YOu can´t seriously tell us that a 13 year old video master are the best surviving elements of the trilogy. Occasional dirt and scratches, which are also on the VIDEO , master you are using, are absolutely no problem for us. What is a problem for us is that we know that better film elements for the original trilogy are available, from which could be made a really good anamorphic DVD transfer. There are much older and much less-important films than Star Wars which have gotten a quite decent transfer on DVD.

> So many fans have requested the original movies, we wanted to find a way
> to
> bring them to you. But since these movies do not represent George's
> artistic vision, we could not put the extraordinary time and resources
> into
> this project as we did with the Special Editions. The 1993 Laserdisc
> masters represented the best source for providing the original versions as
> DVD bonus material.

As I already pointed out, the "Empire of Dreams" documentary clearly proves you wrong. Shame on you if the best surviving elements from the original Star Wars trilogy would be an 13 year old D1 VIDEO TAPE, since it would clearly show the lack of care you have shown towards the most important cultural artifacts of our time. Luckily, we film fans know better.

Famous film restauration expert Robert A Harris already has offered you his service for you, and even he is absolutely sure that with some little additional time and effort, you could easily make them look much better than old VIDEOTAPE masters you are going to use for this release......

Although these are non-anamorphic versions, they do
> preserve the original widescreen composition of the movies.

We never have disputed this fact. Even the old VHS versions from 1995 retain their original aspect ratio, as do my 1995 Laserdiscs. Having them in widescreen is one more important reason to make them anamorphically, since the loss of resolution would be even more drastically evident on computer equipment and 16:9 screens. You know that the market share of 16:9 TV´s here in Europe is really high compares to the USA?

> We want you to be aware that we have no plans – now or in the future
> – to restore the earlier versions.

Then you sadly leave me, and numerous of fans, no other choice to boycott this release, as I already did with the 2004 Special Edition. Be prepared, once this release has come out, that lots of customers, which are still unaware of this whole mess you created, will turn to you and show their dissatisfaction about this release. It makes me sad that apparently, you do not much care about your fans, your reputation as a technical leader in home entertainment and most important, the movies we all love and which enabled you to be this big enterprise.

I urge you for the third time to strongly reconsider this decision.

> We hope you will understand our decision and, again, want to let you know
> how much we appreciate your interest and enthusiasm.

As much as you seem to appreciate our enthusiasm, we, the fans, would really like to see some enthusiasm form you. You can´t tell us that a decent release is impossible. You are Lucasfilm! YOu have 20th Century Fox as a capable distributor! You have every resource which enables you to make them look great. Every 2nd grade B-movie gets nowadays a decent release on DVD. It is really a shame that you still don´t see the importance that these cultural important movies repectfully get at least the same treatment.

Yours sincerely

still a disappointed fan
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Btw, i also mailed this to:

john.singh@lucasfilm.com
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
its not narrow minded its practical. what is narrowminded is the fact you dont accept that as a reasonable excuse, cause it is. [/q

No it isn´t. The empire of dreams documentary (A BONUS FEATURE!) clearly shows scenes from the OOT in anamorphic quality.



you may not like it but the bottem line is that it is a reasonable excuse they dont want to spend the time and money to remake the prints for the few fans that want them, its a question of whether its worth there time.

They don´t have to remake prints, they just have to use the masters the evidently have in their vaults. It is already confirmed that quality 35mm Technicolor dye(!) prints have survived from the original trilogy.


spend millions to re do work they already have and sell maybe 250 000 of them.


1. they will sell much more than that. You are forgetting that people in europe here are also the customers.
2. you don´t have to spend millions to scan a decent film print. It´s a standard procedure nowadays. Films, which have sold much less than 250.000 have been given this treatment you think is so costly and special.


lets do some math, ok say you sell that many, and at 40 bucks a pop, thats 10 mill for each movie, 30 mill total for gross. now how much is the resoration going to cost them, i would say at the very least 5 - 10 million for each film cause there is alot of work to go from the original film to even the 93s. ok to be fair we will say 7.5 mill each, ok so thats 22.5 mill to make the things. now stores need to make money lets say and this si very generous that stores make 10 bucks on each dvd. ok so there we have what 250 000 times 10 times 3. thats 7.5 mil, add that to the 22.5 mill already to make the things, thats 30 mill right there. now what about the costs of advertising, and shipping and packaging and all of that. the bottem line is that they dont want to do it. and they have a legitmate reason. you may not like it, or think its fair, but look at it from there pov. i know they have made billions off you so what if they have a loss of a few mill on some dvd. well they care.


Since you don´t know the figures, because you are no insider, and have never known how much a transfer costs, these figures you are trying to push here are worthless.

Films with much less sales figures and popularity, coming from much smaller DVD production companies, have been given a much better treatment. This already proves that you are horribly wrong here.

All they do now is trying to go the cheap way, to test our faith in this release.
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the reason we are getting a substandard release of the oot is because it will make the newer ones look better.

I think he's kind of scared, because If they restored the oot to the same quality of the 2004 release minus the mistakes no one in the world would prefer the special editions version, except maybe the kiddies who grew up with the special editions and prequels, but if you show the same kids the older version I don't think they would notice any difference because the storytelling takes over not the effects.

the effects were there to supplement the storytelling.

in lucas own words from in star wars to jedi " Special effects are just a tool, a means for telling a story. a special effect without a story are pretty boring thing".

looks like he forgot his own speech there with the special editions and prequels.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I am almost expecting us to get the same automated reply to our angry/sad replies.
I assume that these publicity people are not much more than drones, not really connected to the DVD release and not very knowledgable about it either. I think it is likely that they could have written the reply without consulting anyone outside their own department.
To restate the obvious: We need to contact people whom are likely to be actually working on it, both managers and technicians. I think these letters need to be on paper, be polite in tone (nonetheless), and offer constructive ideas. Perhaps mention that the bootlegs are better products.. maybe that would scare them, hee hee hee...

btw ... a Star Trek reference in a Star Wars forum?
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Ha ha, that's funny. The originals were not anamporphic but people want Lucas to alter it to be Anamorphic. Don't f*** with my Original star wars. I want them to be in the real perspective and nothing more or less.