Originally posted by: Rebel Rouser
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. If Yoda didn't do anything physical at all to win the battle... how would he have won? Palps needed to be stopped. Without lightsabers or the occasional stray Senate hover-thingy, how would he have accomplished this? Harsh language?
Basically, yes. Even language would have been overkill to a being who has spent nearly a millennium learning to operate on a metaphysical level. He should've just sat down in a safe location and effected a series of telepathic attacks against Palpatine, or persuaded some of Palpatine's advisors to kill him. (That would've made good use of the silent weirdos always hanging around the chancellor.)
The idea or masters stepping out of direct combat isn't new to the EU -- Zahn introduced the idea that Palpatine's will affected the performance of those around him, and TotJ had battle meditation that included subtle pushes to willpower and hallucinations. In Dark Empire, Luke and Leia used the Light Side of the Force to overwhelm Palpatine's control and let his own powers destroy him, and Empatajayos Brand essentially kidnapped his soul. Apparent size changes and surreal re-ordering of reality are both hallmarks of master magic users in Lord of the Rings and Japanese media like anime and video games. They'd have been well accepted by the kiddies who like the PT.
Remember that the Force isn't just a power source to be used for telekinesis and martial arts. It is the very underpinning of the universe. Remember that Luke, Yoda, and Palpatine are able to see possible futures and events many light years away -- the Force transcends time and space. Remember that the Force can be used to override the will and alter the conscious thoughts of others -- it is innately tied to that deepest mystery, sentient consciousness. What is the point of being a master of the Force if all you can figure out how to do with it is sword-fight and throw things? I can sword fight and throw things; not at Yoda's level, of course, but it means that a Jedi is merely better than I am, not different.
Of course, there's that whole "shroud of the Dark Side" thing that Lucas wrote into one or two scenes in order to excuse any fault on the part of the Jedi. "Obi-wan is wearing sneakers and calls Anakin 'Hayden' in this scene? Uh, shroud of the Dark Side, their ability to use the Force is diminished."
The Jedi didn't use violence as a last resort. It was, in fact, their favored option. I think I've made a number of posts implicitly comparing the Jedi to Islamic extremists. If you'd like, I can start a thread on it.
As for the Sith getting right down to business in a lightsaber fight... ask Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar how they feel about Sidious dilly-dallying around.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. If Yoda didn't do anything physical at all to win the battle... how would he have won? Palps needed to be stopped. Without lightsabers or the occasional stray Senate hover-thingy, how would he have accomplished this? Harsh language?
Basically, yes. Even language would have been overkill to a being who has spent nearly a millennium learning to operate on a metaphysical level. He should've just sat down in a safe location and effected a series of telepathic attacks against Palpatine, or persuaded some of Palpatine's advisors to kill him. (That would've made good use of the silent weirdos always hanging around the chancellor.)
The idea or masters stepping out of direct combat isn't new to the EU -- Zahn introduced the idea that Palpatine's will affected the performance of those around him, and TotJ had battle meditation that included subtle pushes to willpower and hallucinations. In Dark Empire, Luke and Leia used the Light Side of the Force to overwhelm Palpatine's control and let his own powers destroy him, and Empatajayos Brand essentially kidnapped his soul. Apparent size changes and surreal re-ordering of reality are both hallmarks of master magic users in Lord of the Rings and Japanese media like anime and video games. They'd have been well accepted by the kiddies who like the PT.
Remember that the Force isn't just a power source to be used for telekinesis and martial arts. It is the very underpinning of the universe. Remember that Luke, Yoda, and Palpatine are able to see possible futures and events many light years away -- the Force transcends time and space. Remember that the Force can be used to override the will and alter the conscious thoughts of others -- it is innately tied to that deepest mystery, sentient consciousness. What is the point of being a master of the Force if all you can figure out how to do with it is sword-fight and throw things? I can sword fight and throw things; not at Yoda's level, of course, but it means that a Jedi is merely better than I am, not different.
Of course, there's that whole "shroud of the Dark Side" thing that Lucas wrote into one or two scenes in order to excuse any fault on the part of the Jedi. "Obi-wan is wearing sneakers and calls Anakin 'Hayden' in this scene? Uh, shroud of the Dark Side, their ability to use the Force is diminished."
Without some sort of physical confrontation going on there, we would have been left with the main boss-man fight from Dark City, without all the Strangers flying around in the background... that is to say, it would have been two people standing there staring at each other with some weird squiggly effects in the middle. Diplomacy was pretty much out of the question at this point.
Or better yet, the telepathic fight from Babylon 5. Two people standing in a room and no weird squiggly effects, except maybe in extremely brief, almost subliminal, cuts.
And I think you're confusing the Jedi for Buddist Monks. The Jedi were not pacifists, they just believed that martial prowess was to be called upon as a last resort, not neccassarily ruled out entirely.
Or better yet, the telepathic fight from Babylon 5. Two people standing in a room and no weird squiggly effects, except maybe in extremely brief, almost subliminal, cuts.
And I think you're confusing the Jedi for Buddist Monks. The Jedi were not pacifists, they just believed that martial prowess was to be called upon as a last resort, not neccassarily ruled out entirely.
The Jedi didn't use violence as a last resort. It was, in fact, their favored option. I think I've made a number of posts implicitly comparing the Jedi to Islamic extremists. If you'd like, I can start a thread on it.
As for the Sith getting right down to business in a lightsaber fight... ask Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar how they feel about Sidious dilly-dallying around.
I'm not sure who they are. Were they the master Jedi that Palpatine cut down in his office? Let's see ...
Palpatine must have known the Jedi are coming to assassinate him, yet he stayed in place.
In fact, I believe he was sitting at a desk, with very little room to maneuver.
He didn't instruct any of his guards to protect him.
He didn't prepare any booby traps.
He talked instead of fighting, letting his opponents maintain the initiative until his very foolish choice to engage in melee combat against superior foes -- even though he has a built-in ranged weapon.
These are not the actions of a man who is seriously out to preserve his life and defeat his enemies. These are the actions of a man who wants to fight. Perhaps he took all these foolish chances because he had foreseen that he would win the fight? That's what real masters of the Force do -- they use their noncombat powers to give themselves advantages and to win before the fight even starts.