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You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 34
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Originally posted by: Mangrove
I think that's a great start to a trimmed down version of the Episode III opening, but I don't think the movie works without seeing Anakin take out Dooku. For one thing, it's the start of his fall to the Dark Side and there are already precious few good scenes dealing with that in the movie. Also, it'd be terribly distracting and nonsensical if the only thing we hear about Dooku in Episode III is some throw-away "oh yeah he died" line from Sidious when he's talking to Grevious.
I think that's a great start to a trimmed down version of the Episode III opening, but I don't think the movie works without seeing Anakin take out Dooku. For one thing, it's the start of his fall to the Dark Side and there are already precious few good scenes dealing with that in the movie. Also, it'd be terribly distracting and nonsensical if the only thing we hear about Dooku in Episode III is some throw-away "oh yeah he died" line from Sidious when he's talking to Grevious.
Thanks for the compliment. I agree that the throw-away line about Dooku's death is weak, but Dooku's characterization never came off as that strong to me anyway.
Also, I think my focus will continue to be on what makes this prequel a truly good movie (as little cheese-factor as possible), but I will consider inserting a re-tooled Dooku scene (I actually did an edit of it already before I decided to drastically change the entire opening scene).
As far as it being the beginning of Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, that already occurred in Episode 2 with the massacre of the Sand People. A slower descent into the darkness hinging on, to begin with, the desire to save his wife from death is a more dramatic albeit subtle way to demonstrate his fall I think.
None of Dooku's scene really grabbed me except a moment where Anakin is fighting alone with Dooku and just lets loose on him and the beheading sequence. Other than that... cheese.
I'll see how it works out, though.
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Originally posted by: darthpreston
The only I don't understand is how it makes it more sad and tragic if she LIVED.....as opposed to if she DIED. And he killed her......I mean, so far in our editting ideas for episode III we decided to alter the moment of her death because of the fatal force choke from anakin.....as opposed to a "broken heart". It's interesting to change up anything, but I just don't see how it's more sad if her story disappeared after her staged death. I find the fact that she had to die to be the extra "layer" of emotion to the film...next to anakin turning to vader.
The only I don't understand is how it makes it more sad and tragic if she LIVED.....as opposed to if she DIED. And he killed her......I mean, so far in our editting ideas for episode III we decided to alter the moment of her death because of the fatal force choke from anakin.....as opposed to a "broken heart". It's interesting to change up anything, but I just don't see how it's more sad if her story disappeared after her staged death. I find the fact that she had to die to be the extra "layer" of emotion to the film...next to anakin turning to vader.
If the scene has already been envisioned a different way here in the thread, then that's cool. I thought DarthRichard had an interesting idea with the hand movement, though.
Without giving too much away about the ending of my Episode 3 re-cut, I think the Romeo and Juliet allusion adds to the drama and stays more continuous with the OT.
Padme's story doesn't need to be explained. It's left to the imagination and to the tidbits found in the OT, which adds to the power of the story much as references like Obi-wan's to the Clone Wars in the OT were left undefined. The open-endedness of the reference made it more real.
And the tragedy of Padme continuing to live is that there is substantial time that Vader lost with her because of his actions. Somewhere in the galaxy as he continued on his dark path, Padme lived on.
What do you think?
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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
If Padme had lived, why would she have given up Luke? I think that needs to be addressed.
If Padme had lived, why would she have given up Luke? I think that needs to be addressed.
Maybe. The OT never seemed to need an explanation for it, though.
Just a couple of ideas on the separation:
(1) If Padme truly felt that she must go into hiding, then she may have felt it necessary for her children's safety; one child alive is better than none. Also, twins to a single mother would run the risk of more attention being paid to her.
(2) If the Force runs strong in the Skywalker family as Luke says in ROTJ, perhaps the two children together would be that much easier for the Emperor or Vader to feel the presence of through the Force; again, the separation for safety's sake.
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First of all the trilogy dvd quality sucks. The movies had so many errors its heart breaking. Some I came with a few ideas.
1. They should use obi from I,II and III in the trilogy. This way they can change alot of things that really need to be changed. If they use him they could show that he recognizes r2 & 3po but doen't say it. The lightsaber fight between vader & obi in IV ANH sucks! They can redo it with him to make it a little better but not to stunty and sword twisting like I,II and III. So that means vader would have to change too. Which would be good because vaders helmet looks like crap in IV. They can place a better looking vader in IV (not changing the scenes just vader). Also in VI ROTJ obi could tell luke that he promise to train anakin (promised Qui Gon in I).
2. LIGHTSABERS! what went wrong with that. Man pick a color please, are they red or pink, green or blue. In I,II and III the lightsabers look perfect and have the right color. That really needs to change in the trilogy. When the lightsabers touch you should see that bright light and here that sound more clearer. Where is the orange burn mark when the saber slices something (when luke gets his hand cut off - when vader gets his hand cut off or when luke is slicing all those guys on jabbas ship in VI).
3. I think all the space travel, starship fights should be CGI ( all space scenes including the deathstar). Look how perfect all the space fights, starships and planets looked in I,II and III. I wouldn't mind a CGI yoda either.
4. Stormtroopers should have the same voice from I,II and III.
5. They should replace the unmasking scene in VI with a burnt deformed Hayden like in III. I think they should use the same voice still (a voice over sounds like it would work).
These changes and a few more sounds good. What do you think?
2007 or 2008 - "STAR WARS TRILOGY ULTIMATE ANIVERSARY EDITION - HD DVD" (with all of the changes)
I wish George Lucus would read this and make it happen
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And I might add that CC and I have discussed various ways of altering ANH and ESB in "slight" ways to feature plot points which were dodged when looking at the 6 movies all together. For instance there are ways to add the emperor into ANH through use of dialog tracks delted from Ep.1 and photo imaging. And as discussed earlier, there might be an alternate beginning to ESB to feature the Death Star II into the story sooner. Considering that luke will be on dagobah at the beginning of ROTJ (insuated training from between the 2 movies) then we might add the line "i've got a promise to keep, for an old friend" at the end of ESB as the camera shows Lukes back to the camera and the iris out of the group looking out into space. And we are trying to find people to help on rotoscoping the sabers for all the edits for a number of reasons........plus Grevious/Maul may need a different color line up than green/blue mixtures....coming from a doublebladed red saber.
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Cause some of the backstory stuff (books and video games) features all kinds of colors--KOTOR for example.
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You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
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Originally posted by: shanep
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
I've have been wondering about this too. That would be so cool if they could also.
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Originally posted by: shanep
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
That is a really interesting idea...but how do you explain why the DS2 is suddenly at Endor? It may be a neat exercise, though.
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Originally posted by: Brimley
That is a really interesting idea...but how do you explain why the DS2 is suddenly at Endor? It may be a neat exercise, though.
Originally posted by: shanep
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
That is a really interesting idea...but how do you explain why the DS2 is suddenly at Endor? It may be a neat exercise, though.
It could move
, but it should still definately be tried. Or make it so that the emperor throne room is not on the DSII and have it be in Coruscant. - Time
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Originally posted by: Darth Richard
It could move , but it should still definately be tried. Or make it so that the emperor throne room is not on the DSII and have it be in Coruscant.
Originally posted by: Brimley
That is a really interesting idea...but how do you explain why the DS2 is suddenly at Endor? It may be a neat exercise, though.
Originally posted by: shanep
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
That is a really interesting idea...but how do you explain why the DS2 is suddenly at Endor? It may be a neat exercise, though.
It could move
, but it should still definately be tried. Or make it so that the emperor throne room is not on the DSII and have it be in Coruscant. Would that mean making it so Vadar takes Luke to Couruscant in RotJ instead of DSII?
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Originally posted by: shanep
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
What about the original concept for ROTJ where Luke traveled to Had Abbadon?
You could have the DS2 being built, but instead right above Coruscant and have Vader at the opening travel on his shuttle to Coruscant instead of DS2.
You could take elements of nighttime Coruscant views from the PT, of which there are several, and comp them into scenes outside The Emperor's throne room windows.
This is an idea I've been rolling around in my head for a while, but I don't know if it would work. What might work is if the DSII could be in orbit of Endor, which we could make a moon of Coruscant.
But there are a number of Pros and Cons:
PROS:
It elevates the scale of the final battle and makes it seem more "final".
When the DSII explodes and the emperor bites it, it makes more sense that the people on Coruscant would immediately celebrate.
Endor is referred to by the Emperor as "the sanctuary moon". This is a vestigial reference to the fact that Endor was originally conceived as an environmental sanctuary or "park" moon of Had Abbadon (Coruscant).
CONS:
The space battle seems a little too small to occur over Coruscant.
Why would the Bothans have needed to find the secret location of the DSII, when it's right over Coruscant?
Heading to the capitol to take out the DSII seems like obvious bait for the rebels.
While the duel with Luke and Vader could conceiveably take place on Coruscant, there's a problem when Luke drags Vader along and unmasks him. If they are on Coruscant, why does it look like they are in the DSII hangar, with panicked imperials running around?
I'd love to see this idea work somehow, but I think the unmasking scene with Vader is the deal breaker.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
I'd love to see this idea work somehow, but I think the unmasking scene with Vader is the deal breaker.
I'd love to see this idea work somehow, but I think the unmasking scene with Vader is the deal breaker.
thats the only part that I'm trying to figure out in my head too.
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This thread seemed to be the best place to but this comment, I didn't want to start a new one just in case someone has already thought of it, feel free to tel me if they have!
Ok what I have always wanted to see was all three original films cut into one film, now I here you saying 'heard it, done it' however has it been said in this way.
We all know Star Wars wasn't intended as a series of films and Lucas had one 3hr (or so) film in his head and scripted, it was too long so it was split in three, sort of, I say sort of because Lucas didn't think it would be a hit so the ending (Death Star battle) was brought forward and then of course it did very well. So we get to Jedi and Lucas is left without an ending so what does he do? Re-uses the original. The only Star Wars film that works in my opinion is Empire because that was shot the way it was intended, as the middle part of a story.
What I’d like to see is something close to that original arc. Whether it means you would have to move the original Death Star battle to then end or drop it completely in favour of the Death Star II battle I don’t know. I’d also like to see the Wookies from Sith put in because in the original 3hr script it was them who helped in the last battle not the dammed Ewoks, cos Lucas couldn’t afford to use Wookies, so he shrunk them instead.
I got the reply:
Interesting idea! Actually I remember that the Death Star battle seems quite added-on after the rescue and escape (except maybe the planting of a tracking device...), so it could just be cut off and lead into Empire somehow. That seems nice really, so you don't get this artificial climax in the first act.
As I'm sure you can understand I don't have the time to sit and read all 43pages of this thread but how close am I to what has been disscussed? My vision was for the original trilogy beacuse as far as I'm concerned the new one is just Lucas' attemp at remaking the original films (and failing totaly)
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Originally posted by: Troy
I posted this in another thread:
This thread seemed to be the best place to but this comment, I didn't want to start a new one just in case someone has already thought of it, feel free to tel me if they have!
Ok what I have always wanted to see was all three original films cut into one film, now I here you saying 'heard it, done it' however has it been said in this way.
We all know Star Wars wasn't intended as a series of films and Lucas had one 3hr (or so) film in his head and scripted, it was too long so it was split in three, sort of, I say sort of because Lucas didn't think it would be a hit so the ending (Death Star battle) was brought forward and then of course it did very well. So we get to Jedi and Lucas is left without an ending so what does he do? Re-uses the original. The only Star Wars film that works in my opinion is Empire because that was shot the way it was intended, as the middle part of a story.
What I’d like to see is something close to that original arc. Whether it means you would have to move the original Death Star battle to then end or drop it completely in favour of the Death Star II battle I don’t know. I’d also like to see the Wookies from Sith put in because in the original 3hr script it was them who helped in the last battle not the dammed Ewoks, cos Lucas couldn’t afford to use Wookies, so he shrunk them instead.
I got the reply:
Interesting idea! Actually I remember that the Death Star battle seems quite added-on after the rescue and escape (except maybe the planting of a tracking device...), so it could just be cut off and lead into Empire somehow. That seems nice really, so you don't get this artificial climax in the first act.
As I'm sure you can understand I don't have the time to sit and read all 43pages of this thread but how close am I to what has been disscussed? My vision was for the original trilogy beacuse as far as I'm concerned the new one is just Lucas' attemp at remaking the original films (and failing totaly)
I posted this in another thread:
This thread seemed to be the best place to but this comment, I didn't want to start a new one just in case someone has already thought of it, feel free to tel me if they have!
Ok what I have always wanted to see was all three original films cut into one film, now I here you saying 'heard it, done it' however has it been said in this way.
We all know Star Wars wasn't intended as a series of films and Lucas had one 3hr (or so) film in his head and scripted, it was too long so it was split in three, sort of, I say sort of because Lucas didn't think it would be a hit so the ending (Death Star battle) was brought forward and then of course it did very well. So we get to Jedi and Lucas is left without an ending so what does he do? Re-uses the original. The only Star Wars film that works in my opinion is Empire because that was shot the way it was intended, as the middle part of a story.
What I’d like to see is something close to that original arc. Whether it means you would have to move the original Death Star battle to then end or drop it completely in favour of the Death Star II battle I don’t know. I’d also like to see the Wookies from Sith put in because in the original 3hr script it was them who helped in the last battle not the dammed Ewoks, cos Lucas couldn’t afford to use Wookies, so he shrunk them instead.
I got the reply:
Interesting idea! Actually I remember that the Death Star battle seems quite added-on after the rescue and escape (except maybe the planting of a tracking device...), so it could just be cut off and lead into Empire somehow. That seems nice really, so you don't get this artificial climax in the first act.
As I'm sure you can understand I don't have the time to sit and read all 43pages of this thread but how close am I to what has been disscussed? My vision was for the original trilogy beacuse as far as I'm concerned the new one is just Lucas' attemp at remaking the original films (and failing totaly)
Troy, I posted a similar idea in this thread several months ago. It was my idea to have the final Death Star battle in Episode IV, but instead of the Death Star being destroyed, it would just be severely damaged and disabled. The rebels would celebrate that they had disabled the Death Star. Then at the beginning of ESB, we see an altered shot from the opening of Episode VI, where the DSII is being repaired. This way there is only one Death Star, and the whole plot doesn't seem so rehashed. I don't think my idea for the end of Episode IV caught on though.
After my idea, there was also some talk about a re-edit of the original trilogy to be one really long movie with the battle of Yavin completely removed.
Your idea about using the wookiees from ROTS to be the ground attack in Episode VI is new though. That would be interesting as a stand alone project, but I don't think it would work as part of the whole saga.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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This is going to be a slow process, as I did not expect to have to take over the project so completely. It's a new experience for me and I hope to be able to deliver. Once again, any assistance of any kind would be more than welcome.Now, onto the discussion of late:
DarkHelmet:
Your Episode III opening had some interesting editing choices. The space battle reaequencing has potential, but editing out the Dooku duel? I can't agree with that; it's just too important to the story. It was also my favorite duel in the movie!
Your re-editing of the Mace/Palpatine confrontation was amazing though! All the right cuts and just the right pace. If a way could be found to show Palpatine first shooting the lightning, it would really sell it for sure.
As for Padme, she should die as a result of Anakin's force choke. It's really the only way to do it. The best solution I've come across to the RotJ inconsistency with Luke and Leia's conversation is just cut Luke's "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her." This could imply he silently recalls the same thing Leia does, then she changes the subject and they move on to a different topic: Vader.
PaulisDead2221:
The plan for lightsaber colors is that Jedi have Blue and Green, and Sith have Red (I would like them to have purple as well, but that's a discussion for another time). The one certainty is that Mace will have a blue lightsaber. As as aside, I've always been partial to yellow, and it's my lightsaber color of choice on video games. I always thought Yoda would have looked good with a yellow lightsaber. It's a shame Lucas chose not to incorptorate the variety that exists in the EU into the PT, but that's the way it is.
shanep:
Your suggestion for Coruscant on RotJ isa fanboy dream of mine. Part of me wishes Lucas would tackle this in a future Special Edition, as it would improve the story so much. Unfortunately, short of remaking the entire film, turning Ewoks into Wookies and moving Palpatine's throne room to Coruscant is simply not feasible. Especially not in a fan edit. If someone thinks it is though, please let me know. I'd love to see it but I just can't imagine it being possible.
Erikstormtrooper:
You lay out the pros and cons of such an altertions nicely. Sadly the pros seem to seriously outweigh the cons.
Troy:
Your ideas are certainly worth discussion, and in fact have been dicussed in the thread before IIRC (Erik's ideas I believe). However, those kinds of radical changes to the OT are better suited for another project. There will be a Death Star battle at the end of Episode 4 in this edit. That is a certainty.
Sluggo:
We've talked about that kind of scenario for a while now, but I honestly don't see it working with what we have to work with.
Here is the rough plan I have for the Death Stars in the OT:
-New scene in Episode 4, in between Luke returning to Yavin and the end celebration:
EXTERIOR: SPACE -- EXECUTOR
Darth Vader's TIE fighter flies towards the Executor. (Shot of TIE from Vader regaining control at end of ANH, tilted to the side. Shot of Executor from ESB SE shot of Shuttle flying back to Executor.)
INTERIOR: EXECUTOR -- VADER'S CHAMBER
Vader walks to a large holographic communication pad and kneels. A large hologram of the the Emperor materializes before Vader.
VADER: What is they bidding my master?
EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.
VADER: I have felt it.
EMPEROR: I have no doubt the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
VADER: How is that possible?
EMPEROR: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true.
Vader breathes in silence, pondering his master's words.
EMPEROR: This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans.
VADER: (Something about the death of Tarkin; altered Brock Peters dialogue might come into play here.)
EMPEROR: His death was a necessary loss. (Something about Vader being in command of the fleet now.)
VADER: Yes, my master.
Vader kneels.
So that's what I have in mind. The last couple of lines need some work obviously. And where does this leave Palpatine in ESB? That remains to be seen.
Then, Episodes 5 and 6 would have altered crawls to accomodate the new edits.
Episode 5 would now have RotJ's opening scene, with Vader arriving at the Death Star. The establishing shot would be altered to make it seem less completeted than it is in RotJ. The reference to the "Emperor coming here?" would be cut. This would wipe to the Probe droid appraoching Hoth. The movie continues as-is until the wipe to the Imperial fleet. The SE shot of Vader's shuttle approaching the Executor would be utilized here. If we can make it work via special effects, we would incorporate the Death Star in some shots of the fleet. Vader would not be shown on the bridge, his fist line being "You found something" as if he has just arrived. I've completed a rought cut of this sequence of events and it works well.
The opening of RotJ is still up for discussion. It will either be Dagobah, Tatooine, or Palpatine's arrival on the Death Star. The ESB opening was always rather weak, inspiring the Death Star arrival scenario. It's Star Wars tradition to open in space with a ship of some short, but starting 2 films with back-to-back arrivals at the Death Star may be too much though, so we'll see.
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Yes! That's what I'm talking about exactly. So, in the opening we see Coruscant,Endor, and then pan over to the DS2.
Instead of Vader going to the DS2, his shuttle travels to Coruscant. Just replace the DS element with a PT Coruscant one. Vader's shuttle travels to Courscant. Add in a shuttle element on Coruscant. Put the matte shot of the large assemblage of troops for his arrival instead of Palps. Vader gets out, but no Jerjerrod. He just travels to the Throne room, high above Coruscant. The emperor rolls his chair around. Out his windows is the city skyline