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ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM — Page 8

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I wonder what the "level of quality" is. Will it be comparable to the Indiana Jones DVDs?

It could be the most comparable thing is the E.T. DVD release, which included the "no-guns" SE and the original theatrical release on 2 discs. The E.T. SE has 5.1 sound while the original is Dolby Surround, similar to what Lucasfilm has announced. Both versions of E.T. are anamorphic and show about equal grain but the E.T. SE has deeper color contrast. If Lucasfilm gives us at least the same level of quality as Universal's E.T. release I'll be satisfied.
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I think actually that the E.T. DVD is his inspiration for his set. There were countless complaints I'm sure Lucasfilm saw, saying, "Look- Steven Spielberg did a Special Edition, but he included the original with it in a 2-disc set available for a limited time only." And that's exactly what he's doing. Rather than releasing the OOT seperately and risk people accidentally buying that instead of the "corrected" versions, he's going to make sure that this is a limited thing that includes the '04 versions.

A couple questions i have, though.

-Is this release going to be fullscreen as well?
-What's the sound mix like? The original stereo, or what?
-What about the foreign releases? Is it possible they're bringing back the OLD foreign language dubs, rather than the new ones they did for the 2004 DVD's? That would be awesome.
- Isn't it true that for the first time on video, we'll actually be able to see the OOT with all of the original "punched" and really realistic starfields intact? I seem to remember reading something on the X0 site like the stars "slipped out of the transfer" due to the low resolution?

Anyway, if what they're saying is true (a transfer from the original film elements), then I'm looking forward to this so much it isn't funny. I can't wait to see the detail of the X-wings, the Death Star trench, the surfaces of the asteroids, the original laser blasts, sound effects, voice actors, lightsabers NOT screwed up.... this is like a dream come true. Thank you so much, George.

I still can't believe that for the first time in over a decade, he's actually going BACK to what he considers to be an inferior version, and releasing it on a digital format. It just blows my mind.

THANK YOU!!!!
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Not to get off topic, but since I've only got into Indiana Jones in the past year, what is the level of quality of that DVD set as compared to its original form? Any complaints about colour or sound or anything? (Relatively few would complain about getting rid of a snake reflection, which is the equivalent of fixing matte lines, which I am all for.) I have the Indy set but don't have anything to compare it to. Just curious.

I think putting SW out on a two-disc set is the way to go, considering Lucas' relative intractability concerning the old version; it's somewhat amazing he's even doing it at all, really. But I really hope it will not be subjugated with a "disc 2" label on the disc itself, or worse yet "bonus material", because that is disrespectful. The tone of the press release seems to indicate that would be the case, unfortunately. Oh well.

I'm sure various 'ultimate versions' could be made offering choices of audio and fixing what screwups they might make, if any. For my part I'd like the '85 stereo mix primarily, because that's what I grew up with on VHS (and is why I got the Editdroid), but having the mono would be interesting for the sake of comparison. I've heard only small bits of it via the classic edition. Having all the sound mixes plus music-only would be excellent. There will yet be many possibilities for editors come this fall, methinks . . .
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The Indiana Jones dvd set was very good. Colours were faithful and accurate, vibrant where appropriate but not hyper-saturated. I did notice in Raiders that the flesh tones tended to get a bit pink at times, but generally it was pretty flawless.
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It could be the most comparable thing is the E.T. DVD release, which included the "no-guns" SE and the original theatrical release on 2 discs. The E.T. SE has 5.1 sound while the original is Dolby Surround, similar to what Lucasfilm has announced. Both versions of E.T. are anamorphic and show about equal grain but the E.T. SE has deeper color contrast. If Lucasfilm gives us at least the same level of quality as Universal's E.T. release I'll be satisfied.


Does anyone else remember that E.T. was released as a 2 disc set with the original and S.E. AND a 1 disc S.E. only, and then much later the single disc original version came out. I'm wondering if that's why the OUT sets are being called limited edition...

Another point is if they are shooting for an Indy like release we shouldn't forget that there was some sfx cleanup on that set. Although I will say I had zero complaints with what they fixed. I ALWAY saw the glass with the snakes and the boulder guides. Maybe they'll fix some black mattes and stuff.
Man there is a lot of IF's in this.

Dr. M

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Yeah my guess is ET style, there is no way it won't be of a reasonable quality.
Will it be what everyone wants exactly, no coz we all want different things, but as long as it is good quality and no additions then the scene can always make it their own later, even if it has to move completely underground.

I'm so looking forward to it, I'll be able to have my Laserdiscs which I love just coz they are so big and old-school funky, hopefully an X0 LD transfer so I can see what my LDs would look like if I could cough up for an X0 player (and not having to change discs would be nice) and then the official DVD untouched release as well.
A set to suit every mood and chronical the various state of the art releases over the history of the film.
Give me the OT or give me death!
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Gorram, you sound as schizophrenic as I am with all of this. If George is going to make multiple versions, then he had better sell multiple versions. They are coming to take me away, ha-ha!!
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I sort of feel sorry for GL on this and I suspect it might be partially the reason why there's never been an OUT DVD release:

The people here probably know more about his movies and their evolution than he does... and WE can't agree what is original, what should be fixed, what shouldn't, etc. We bicker and release dozens of different projects each subtly different.

Do you put out a WIP edit? The first theatrical release? Which crawl do you use? Which of the numerous audio edits? Which lines of dialog that have come and gone belong or don't? Does deleted scenes count as original? What color should the sabers be? What was the real original color scheme? Did some idiot doing the color timing screw up in the first place? Should glaring sfx flaws be tweaked or are they part of the "charm"? If you tweak the sfx how far do you go?

Really, I don't envy him, because no matter what this DVD looks like he'll get shit for it.
I also suspect that maybe he and/or his people have been following us or other SW sites trying to find out what (the majority of) people really want before sinking money into a restoration project of any sort.
He really can't win on this, and my hat is off to him for even trying.

Dr. M

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You know, seamless branching and double layer discs shouldn't even make this an issue.

There should be two versions of the crawl, two or three soundtracks, and that's it. It would represent the evolution of the theatrical release of Star Wars into the Faces Edition of A New Hope prior to the release of the Special Editions. The changes for the other two movies would be handled in the same way, with little or no fuss.

Wouldn't that make everyone happy?

Steve

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I think one point to make that I haven't seen mentioned revolves around picture quality.

this comes down to money spent.

the 2004 release had every single frame digitally scanned by lowry who then sharpened it up further.

now, if you take the original 93 version of the film and digitally scanned it, then it would be nice and sharp, just like the 2004 release, however, I've heard nothing thus far that says this has happened. merely that a 93 print has recently been rewashed. my take on quality really plays off how the 93 print is being transfered into a dvd master. if it's by digital scanning, then it should be quite nice, maybe not up to lowry standards but still good. if it's done in the more normal way, then obviously, it will not be.
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The sound crew started with a master 4 track mix (left, right, center, surround)which was matrixed to a 2 track/4 channel mix (Left total/Right total) for 35mm presentations.

They took this same 4 channel mix for the 70mm 6 channel mix, but this is not the equivilent of today's 5.1 split-surround mixes. In 1976, Dolby Discreet 6 channel sound was introduced which consisted of left, mid left, center, mid right, right, mono surround. In 1977, they introduced Dolby "Baby Boom" 6 channel sountrack, which consisted of left, center, right, mono surround, 2 LFE (Low Frequency) channels. This is what Star Wars was released in.

Remember, theatrical 70mm with magnetic 4.1 channel/6 track presentations was preferred over theatrical 35mm 4 channel/2 track optical presentations at the time was because optical soundtracks did not have the fidelity of magnetic soundtracks, which were only available on 70mm. Since then, 35mm has caught up with 70mm, so it is used less. Home presentations are not going to present a substantial difference in using the 70mm 4.1 channel/6 track over the 35mm 4 channel/2 track mix. Most home systems will decode the original 4 channels from the 2.0 tracks.

In short, 2.0 Dolby Digital is perfectly adequate. We are talking about our desire and demand to have the film as it was in 1977 without subsequent tinkering, it seems a bit much to demand a modern tinkered 5.1 soundtrack.
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Originally posted by: Davis
Is this release going to be fullscreen as well?


Oh, Lord -- I hope not! It's about time that "foolscreen" nonsense just went away. I will never understand why someone would voluntarily watch only 57% of the picture that was shot for our viewing pleasure.

And a fullscreen (sic) release just adds three more items to the completionist's checklist...

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I've been here almost every day since late 2004 (took a while to read everything before joining). I was away the whole of last week (May 2 - today). What a week to miss.

I'm very happy about the news. This is what we've been waiting for. I will be buying all three (probably both PAL and NTSC) on opening day.

I'm a little sad to see that a lot of people are sceptical about the forthcoming release and are already criticising it. The worst case scenario is that it will be made from the 1993 SD video masters. If so, that will still be better than anything we have now (not going through the LD - PC stages). But my guess is that LFL wouldn't release that on quality grounds and there seem to be some indications they may be using a higher quality source - if so, all the better.

As far as the motivation for the release is concerned, I'm with Zion - who cares? My guess is that OT fans within LFL have been petitioning George (and possibly Fox) to do this all along. Thanks in part to this site, they knew there was money to be made and that was the leverage that made it possible. George would never release them on their own, or permanently (for fear they'd outsell the SE) - so the limited release with the 2004 set makes sense and is a more than acceptable compromise to get the OT on DVD. Just think of the '04 disc as the bonus disc. We should all be thanking Jim Ward right now.

As far as this site is concerned, there is obviously a future for it as there are many of us who want it to continue - and Jay's new direction seems eminently sensible. I think Jay and everyone who was involved in the LD preservation projects should feel proud of themselves for having played a significant part in prompting this release - none of that time and energy was wasted.
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Well said.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Originally posted by: Davis
Is this release going to be fullscreen as well?


Oh, Lord -- I hope not! It's about time that "foolscreen" nonsense just went away. I will never understand why someone would voluntarily watch only 57% of the picture that was shot for our viewing pleasure.

And a fullscreen (sic) release just adds three more items to the completionist's checklist...


Actually I wouldn't mind a fullscreen version also and I will probably buy it. Normally I hate fullscreen and I only want fullscreen versions of movies if there's no widescreen available. For the last 15+ years I've only seen Star Wars in widescreen. Then Grinder showed me a clip of his LD cap of the 1982? fullscreen LD of A New Hope. That clip was JUST as I remembered Star Wars. That clip REALLY brought back my earliest memories of Star Wars. The first time I saw Star Wars was in the mid 80s in full screen. So for Star Wars in fullscreen I'll make an exception!
Ofcourse I want the widescreen version too. Now that I think about it, I hate the PAL audio speedup without pitch correction so I think I'll have to buy 4 sets (both PAL and NTSC full and widescreen). I must be nuts

I'm so happy there's finally going to be an official release of the OOT. I think the quality will be good this time. I never hated GL. Hate is such a strong word and I can't imagine the people who say they hate(d) GL actually hate(d) him. Remember, without GL there would have been no Star Wars at all. I'm forever grateful that Star Wars exists.

And before the announcement of the official release we had so much fun making our LD to DVD transfers. For me it was really exciting buying LDs on ebay and waiting for the big packages of the Definitive collection and Coffret Trilogie to be delivered. And then finally when playing the LDs for the first time in your hard to get LD player. And ofcourse capturing. I learned so much about video editing and stuff like avisynth and virtualdub.

Man... I just LOVE Star Wars and finally were getting them on DVD!

(with Star Wars I mean the original trilogy, not the PT. I don't hate the PT either, it just isn't as good as the originals)

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Thanks to none for posting this link in another thread. How's that for vindication, Jay?
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That's funny. It makes us look like a small minority. I laughed when they said the main thing was to make the OFFICIAL ones available (I know both the 04 and 05 sets are still abundant at least here where I am at) as well as the old ones that some of the fans wanted as well.

Anyway, I've already got the money set aside. I can't wait. Especially if we really get the pre-ANH version. Boo yah.
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Originally posted by: Doctor M
Does anyone else remember that E.T. was released as a 2 disc set with the original and S.E. AND a 1 disc S.E. only, and then much later the single disc original version came out. I'm wondering if that's why the OUT sets are being called limited edition...


I've been thinking that, too. They keep saying "this release" - "this release" is the 2004/theatrical combo, if you want to get technical. Who's to say there won't be theatrical-only releases? Then again, who wants to take that chance? And what about HD-DVD/Blu-Ray releases further down the line?

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Then Grinder showed me a clip of his LD cap of the 1982? fullscreen LD of A New Hope. That clip was JUST as I remembered Star Wars.

See that's my thing. Also, if they release it in fullscreen, wouldn't that mean that the part of the picture that you ARE seeing be in the highest-res the OOT has EVER been released in? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

My other two questions were....

1. If this is REALLY pressed from the original prints from 77-83, then we should be seeing the original subtitles BURNED IN, in their original font, right? That means we get Return on the Jedi with no misspelled subtitles, and no player-generated stuff that looks like garbage.

2. Didn't they screw up the transfer for ROTJ for the '93 and '95 editions, during their "remastering"? I read somewhere that they lopped off about 10 scan lines from the top of ROTJ's frame, changing the aspect ratio. My question is this- are we finally going to get this in its original ratio, or are they going to copy the mistake from 93-95? Is this anamorphic?
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i would not be offended if they cleaned up the matte lines, speeder smudge, rancor mattes, etc. those things take me away from the movie.

FE<3OT

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I too have no problem with digital cleanup to the degree of Raiders. What drives me nuts is inconsistency more than anything else. Most infamously from the Raiders DVD: they fixed the reflection when Harrison Ford faces the cobra but NOT when Karen Allen does it moments later. Nobody at ILM can be that blind or careless and the only explanation is that there was budget assigned to fix the one shot and not the other. No doubt budget is the same Force that mandated which lightsaber shots got fixed or not in ANH'04. Lucas may use his own money for everything but that doesn't mean he'll spend what fans wish he'd spend. We're going to get the best OUT DVDs Lucasfilm thinks worst-case market demand will profitably reimburse them for.
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Originally posted by: trickbaxter
i would not be offended if they cleaned up the matte lines, speeder smudge, rancor mattes, etc. those things take me away from the movie.


I'd rather they made the best transfer they could and left the 'fixes' for the people here. There were matte lines when I first saw it at the cinema, so there ought to be now. It would be easier for some of the talented people here to fix it later, than put them back in! So long as they include enough high quality bonus materials for people to reinsert whichever crawl they like then it'll be good.

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Originally posted by: Davis
Then Grinder showed me a clip of his LD cap of the 1982? fullscreen LD of A New Hope. That clip was JUST as I remembered Star Wars.

See that's my thing. Also, if they release it in fullscreen, wouldn't that mean that the part of the picture that you ARE seeing be in the highest-res the OOT has EVER been released in? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Yeah, and? Theoretically they could scan in the image zoomed into - not just 4:3 - but beyond... so that all we get are close ups of lips and ears and glasses of blue milk. They'd be in the highest-res ever released on video but without context they're worthless. That said, you're quite right in your assumption. The difference between an anamorphic 2.35:1 transfer and a 4:3 fullscreen one ain't that great enough to warrant a fullscreen release, I believe. I suggest anyone wanting one for mere nostalgia purposes simply use the zoom button on their DVD player and let the DVD makers utilize their time and energy on more important pursuits...

My other two questions were....

1. If this is REALLY pressed from the original prints from 77-83, then we should be seeing the original subtitles BURNED IN, in their original font, right? That means we get Return on the Jedi with no misspelled subtitles, and no player-generated stuff that looks like garbage.


Not neccessarily. Those subs would've been the last thing put on since different territories would have different language requirements. Its easy enough to subtitle a scrawl but you don't wanna subtitle subtitles. My bet is that they'll be player-generated to accommodate the various language requirements of the format. Don't worry - I'm sure someone here will come up with a burnt-in version down the line!
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Originally posted by: cashflagg
Originally posted by: Davis

Not neccessarily. Those subs would've been the last thing put on since different territories would have different language requirements. Its easy enough to subtitle a scrawl but you don't wanna subtitle subtitles. My bet is that they'll be player-generated to accommodate the various language requirements of the format. Don't worry - I'm sure someone here will come up with a burnt-in version down the line!



LOL

I can see the title for that one - "Star Wars: Classic Burned-In Subtitles Edition" - see Greedo talk in burned-in green subtitles for the first time since 1978...the way you remember it!
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I'm not going to buy the OOP. I'll wait until the inevitable 30th Anniversary boxset comes out.