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The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have! — Page 8

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Originally posted by: Jetrell Fo
"After all if GL makes this a spite release just to make a point and pisses all the fans off, even he must realise that the world would surely end. And then he wouldn't be able to re-release the discs again next year."

That just may be some of the method behind the madness.......just food for thought anyways...heehee


Lucas & the SW fans; the greatest sadomasochistic relationship in the world!

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Originally posted by: grifter
Originally posted by: Jetrell Fo
"After all if GL makes this a spite release just to make a point and pisses all the fans off, even he must realise that the world would surely end. And then he wouldn't be able to re-release the discs again next year."

That just may be some of the method behind the madness.......just food for thought anyways...heehee


Lucas & the SW fans; the greatest sadomasochistic relationship in the world!


I was being sarcastic.....hence the heehee, maybe I should have added the j-kidding afterwards, my bad.

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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
But what if they purposely make them stand out so much with DVD technology that you can't help but think, "Wow. Look at the inferior technology." I mean, that's exactly what they want us to think. This is just a little conspiracy theory on my part, but you never know. Just something to throw out there.

I'm sorry to say, It's crossed my mind also. I hope that's not the case.

Now that someone else is worrying about it, that means I wasn't crazy for worrying about it after all - crap, now I really have to worry about it.



Whew, and I feel better that I wasn't the only one thinking it.

And The Bizzle, I agree that Lucas probably isn't pulling a "nyah, nyah" and actively fighting against us. But a lot of the things he has been quoted as saying about the original trilogy and fans of it doesn't do much to keep me from thinking that at least a side goal apart from appeasing us is to finally prove once and for all that he's been right about his versions. And this is going to be especially true for the younger fans who have never seen the originals before but have only heard Lucas talk about "incomplete films" and his "original vision." I'm sure he'd be thrilled if they were released side by side with his current best update only to have the "younglings" think the whole thing is stupid and wonder what we were complaining about all this time when surely George was right about the newer versions being better. That would be the ultimate victory... not against us but for his cause. So I don't agree that there's no battle, just that George isn't necessarily fighting against us. However, his motivation and goals do oppose us.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I actually don't mind it if mat lines and and see-though cockpits were fixed so that they aren't there anymore, but they also don't bother me. The mat lines around the DeLorian in Back to the Future are still there on the DVD and they don't bother me. They remind me that they were made in the 80's, which can be distracting, but only if I let them be distracting.

I just hope that the audio isn't screwed up in this September release. And that the color of the lightsabers is good. And again, I would love to see a fixed Obi-Wan lightsaber during ANH when he fights Vader (it's always been if his thing was running out of batteries), but I guess I'll have to pick my battles. I have OCP's DVD version and that makes me happy.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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The most likely scenario, IMHO, is the one painted by zombie84. LFL would want an anamorphic 24p disc, two reasons not to use the D1/D2 master. Given the advances in video technology, they'd want to do a new telecine/digital scan form the best available source, which would be the '93 interpositive. All this is entirely consistent with Jim Ward's comments, both on starwars.com and in the USA today article. The quote about video quality, which is from the journalist, not Ward (although he is presumably paraphrasing Ward) is: The original films' video quality will not match up to that of the restored versions. This seems most likely to refer to the fact that these editions will not have the digital "restoration" as performed by Lowry for the 2004 editions. To me, this is another plus point.

Now, the worst case scenario is that these are just being compressed from the D1/D2 letterbox masters used for the DefCol & "Faces" LDs (and the last VHS release). Even if this is the case, they will still be the best available version of the OOT on DVD: I will be happy to buy them and I strongly urge everyone else to do the same. This is a good example of an opportunity to vote with our wallets. We all want the OOT to live on into future formats and support for this product now is the best way to encourage that. If it is a big hit, LFL (other than Lucas) and Fox will want to keep re-releasing it to make more money - which is great for us. If it is boycotted because 'it should have been better', there will be no future for top quality versions of the OOT on home video.
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The matt lines and old special effects don't give me any problem whatsoever. Just awhile back I watched the original movies in widescreen and it brought back all of my love for the series (after the prequels and special editions left me in a state where I began to lose interest). My imagination makes up for any problems with the special effects. I apreciate their subtle artistic nature, and the way they heighten the mood of the stories. If they emotionally work, they don't need to be technically perfect.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Don't get me wrong about the 35mm/70mm Empire audio. I want them both. But If we only get to have one, I would prefer the 35mm mix.
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What if they gave us the 70mm version of ESB *day dreams*.Hey it is possible I mean they are giving us Star Wars without the episode number.
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what are the differences between the 70mm print of ESB and the 35mm?


(It's strange that every little change between prints is well documented for ANH, but I've really never heard anything about the changes, audio or video, between the 70mm and 35mm print of ESB or RotJ)
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Originally posted by: BountyHunter
what are the differences between the 70mm print of ESB and the 35mm?

Go here.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Based on that I would say the 35mm is superior.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Same here. And it seems like the 35mm was the more predominant original version anyway.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Does anyone know if the messed up music score in ESB is part of the 70mm or the 35mm or both (cause I know they used the 70mm soundtrack for the SE...and it finally sounded correct, but I'm not sure if it was altered or presented as it orginally was).
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What was wrong with the soundtrack?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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AFAIK, some cues were used in the 70mm that don't appear in the 35mm, where they were replaced with repeated cues from elsewhere in the score. See Building Empire for more info and to hear the 70mm versions.
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Ah. Thanks a lot.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I think you may be mistaken--the unheard music cues IIRC are not heard in ANY version. They were cut out by Irvin Kershner because he felt they distracted from the tension. The Probot landing, Han's arrival at Echo Base, the AT-AT's approach, Luke's force training, Luke's duel with Vader all were scored with music, whereas in the film they play with just sound and dialog. Much better this way. Building Empire restored some of these to show you what it would have been like with them in it, as the music tracks appears on the 97 SE CD's, although Building Empire forgot to include the terrific bit for the AT-AT's approach.

Unless you are talking about something completely different.
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The deleted cues have never been on any mix, that is correct as far as I've ever heard. But the difference between the 70mm and the 35mm in music is the hackjob that was applied in certain places on the 35, which the 70 (at least in its SE incarnation, anyway) left as had been composed. These include two transitions from Yoda on Dagobah to the Imperial fleet, the first after the cave sequence and the second after the X-wing is raised from the swamp, and also on Bespin for the segment from Boba Fett saying "put captain Solo in the cargo hold" through Leia and co. running to catch Slave 1 up until it cuts back to the Luke and Vader duel.

The music written for the Yoda-to-Imperial-fleet transitions was in both instances a loud statement of the Imperial March (not the concert version), which was replaced on the 35 with a spliced bit from the very beginning of the concert version, not as loud. The Bespin scene is the more objectionable edit as it drastically shortens and hacks together the music so that it cuts off as soon as Chewie begins firing on Slave 1, while the 70 allows it to run as composed, cutting off when the scene changes back to the lightsaber duel. It is better this way because we get to see a tortured Leia watching Fett's ship take off and hear the Han/Leia love theme in a similarly tortured rendition, whereas on the 35 the music has ended and we are left hanging with nothing but sound effects.

I grew up hearing the 35 on video and for the most part prefer it, but for the way the music plays out I would much rather have the 70. A combination of the two for just that would be the best ESB soundtrack in my opinion. OCP's classic edition tried to achieve this, but didn't get the music to run completely smoothly, which was unfortunately rather distracting.

I really like all the music for the original trilogy, so I kind of wish some alternate mix could put back in all the deleted cues too. But I wouldn't try to suppress the original either, because there is something to be said for leaving them out, from a certain point of view.
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Right - I was talking about what hairy_hen describes above, not the removed and unreplaced cues (although IIRC, Building Empire features those also).
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Oh yeah, now i remember, when i saw the SE when Slave I flies away the music continued all the way back to the Vader duel. Personally i felt the 35 version was way stronger with just silence. We see Leia's face looking at the ship in horror with the muted sounds of laser fire in the background underscoring her defeat. The inclusion of the music in this part was very cacophonous and doesn't mix well with artoos screams and all the blaster fire. To each his own i suppose.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Oh yeah, now i remember, when i saw the SE when Slave I flies away the music continued all the way back to the Vader duel. Personally i felt the 35 version was way stronger with just silence. We see Leia's face looking at the ship in horror with the muted sounds of laser fire in the background underscoring her defeat. The inclusion of the music in this part was very cacophonous and doesn't mix well with artoos screams and all the blaster fire. To each his own i suppose.



But the music was all choppy and hacked up...IMO it's a worse offense than the muted force theme that plays during the battle of Yavin. Worst goof in the OOT.
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It is a significant goof, because in particular the music underscoring Fett's line "put captain Solo in the cargo hold" is extremely choppy. Allowed to run as composed it is one of my favourite musical segments in the entire collected SW score, but the 35 mm mix botches it. I don't know why, because it doesn't even compress it for time for that part, just alters it in a bad way.
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Originally posted by: hairy_hen
It is a significant goof, because in particular the music underscoring Fett's line "put captain Solo in the cargo hold" is extremely choppy. Allowed to run as composed it is one of my favourite musical segments in the entire collected SW score, but the 35 mm mix botches it. I don't know why, because it doesn't even compress it for time for that part, just alters it in a bad way.



Exactly, I love Williams score in that scene, but hearing the 35mm is like nails on a chalkboard...and there is absolutley no justification for it either, it runs just perfectly in the SE, where all the music cues match what's happening on screen.



BTW - Does anyone know for sure that this part was orginally correct for the 70mm? I know we heard it correctly on the SE, but it could of been altered.
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I would think that this would be the case. LFL isn't going to spend a ton of money to restore something that Lucas doesn't really care about. Using the 1993 masters that were used for the DC and Faces sets makes sense, since that was the last time the OOT was remastered, and the cost of transferring it is minimal. Obviously a master -> DVD is going to look a lot better than an LD capture ported to DVDR, even if they're derived from the same master source. I believe it will be a 16x9 dual layer transfer, and will look a lot better than the LDs ever could. I'll be glad to finally have a legal version of the true films. As for the rest of the arguments, I have only one thing to say: This bickering is pointless.

Originally posted by: THX
The most likely scenario, IMHO, is the one painted by zombie84. LFL would want an anamorphic 24p disc, two reasons not to use the D1/D2 master. Given the advances in video technology, they'd want to do a new telecine/digital scan form the best available source, which would be the '93 interpositive. All this is entirely consistent with Jim Ward's comments, both on starwars.com and in the USA today article. The quote about video quality, which is from the journalist, not Ward (although he is presumably paraphrasing Ward) is: The original films' video quality will not match up to that of the restored versions. This seems most likely to refer to the fact that these editions will not have the digital "restoration" as performed by Lowry for the 2004 editions. To me, this is another plus point.

Now, the worst case scenario is that these are just being compressed from the D1/D2 letterbox masters used for the DefCol & "Faces" LDs (and the last VHS release). Even if this is the case, they will still be the best available version of the OOT on DVD: I will be happy to buy them and I strongly urge everyone else to do the same. This is a good example of an opportunity to vote with our wallets. We all want the OOT to live on into future formats and support for this product now is the best way to encourage that. If it is a big hit, LFL (other than Lucas) and Fox will want to keep re-releasing it to make more money - which is great for us. If it is boycotted because 'it should have been better', there will be no future for top quality versions of the OOT on home video.