Originally posted by: ricarleite
No, but Marx's disciples have been implementing murder on a massive scale since the October Revolution.
17. What is the difference between Facism and Communism? Do they not both lead to state control of the economy, thus making ideologies irrelevant?
Who do you think controls the economy in the US? Or UK? Or Australia? Facism is a ruling policy, comunism is an economical and social system.
That was quite one-sided, but it's ok.
I wasn't trying to be even-handed. I thought the title made it clear.
Because they teach that there's a higher power than the state, and typically socialist countries are unwelcoming to religious insitutions.
16. Given that the socialist death toll is at 100 million and counting, vastly outpacing "facist" numbers, does socialism get a free pass because it's more "altruistic"...at least on the surface? Can any ideology that results in the death of even one life be considered to be altruisitic?
I don't remember reading on Karl Marx works that genocide was necessary. Don't mix up the system, to whom has tried to apply it.
I wasn't trying to be even-handed. I thought the title made it clear.
It dosen't work because there IS capitalism around
So it doesn't work because of a competing system?
Does the state's interests lie in perpetuation of the system in spite of it's shortcomings? Should the state provide moral or ethical teachings that contradict those of a parent?
14. Should religious institutions be permitted in socialist societies?
Why not?
So it doesn't work because of a competing system?
1. Since socialst nations have existed in the past and failed, what do you attribute their failure to? Is it reasonable to believe that these "obstacles" can be overcome in the short term?
Failed due to economical imbalance, improper investments in a war machine, personal greed, tyrany, inability to cope with today's globalized market.
Does the system's obvious weaknesses (failure to meet changing market forces, inability to cope with human nature(greed, laziness, etc)) not mean that it's NOT the best system? Or are we talking "theory" or "on paper" socialism?
Is coersion via "Go live in France" an acceptable substitute for violence?
13. In a socialist system, who's interests should/will take precedence in case of child rearing? Parents, or the State?
At school, state. Outside school, parents.
Failed due to economical imbalance, improper investments in a war machine, personal greed, tyrany, inability to cope with today's globalized market.
Does the system's obvious weaknesses (failure to meet changing market forces, inability to cope with human nature(greed, laziness, etc)) not mean that it's NOT the best system? Or are we talking "theory" or "on paper" socialism?
2. Were any of these nations imperialistic in nature, meaning did they expand beyond their national borders and conquer territory not in their possession prior to the Bolshevic revolution of the early part of the 20th century?
USSR did but not after the period you have mentioned
What about the BLOC states it obsorbed during and after WWII (Hungary, Romania, East Germany, Ukraine, etc)?
I've had that discussion as well. A benevolent dictator....sadly not to happen (in our lifetime, at least).
11. What if 1 or 2 people in said country decided they didn't feel socialism was right for them. Would the government be justified in using any and all means to implement the system for the greater good?
No. But they could say "If you are not happy, get out of here and go live in France!", sounds familiar anyway.
USSR did but not after the period you have mentioned
What about the BLOC states it obsorbed during and after WWII (Hungary, Romania, East Germany, Ukraine, etc)?
China did
North Korea and Vietnam as well.
Should it continue to be persued given it's shortcomings?
10. Do people try to accumulate more or less power?
More power, less responsability. Power is not the problem. I would love if we had a single tyrant that ruled the world, but did good things.
North Korea and Vietnam as well.
4. If inequitable distribution of wealth is the cause of crime and social injustice, how do you explain people who are wealthy that committ crimes?
Drugs, greed, passion crimes, and insanity. Pretty much it.
Is there a moral component in society that gives people a sense of right and wrong or is that a state issue?
Because in a system in which everyone gets "...according to his needs", why would anyone need.....the new Power MAC or Nintendo Revolution (I refuse to call it Wii) when the Commodore 64 will do the job? According to his needs puts a glass ceiling on innovation. The progress the soviets made in the space race was due to the needs of the state, not the needs of any individual.
9. For socialism to be truly implemented, the government must assume vast powers. Once assumed, what guarantee is there that the government will not abuse these powers?
None. Ethics. That's why it dosen't work.
Drugs, greed, passion crimes, and insanity. Pretty much it.
Is there a moral component in society that gives people a sense of right and wrong or is that a state issue?
5. Is brute labor the only force that is essential to the prosperity and equality of a society?
Uh... no. Point is?
See point below re: incentive to strive.
8. What incentive does a person who has guaranteed health care, housing, food, water, and clothing have to strive for a better life?
If they have that, not only as a guarantee on a paper, why would they need it?
Uh... no. Point is?
See point below re: incentive to strive.
8. What incentive does a person who has guaranteed health care, housing, food, water, and clothing have to strive for a better life?
If they have that, not only as a guarantee on a paper, why would they need it?
Because in a system in which everyone gets "...according to his needs", why would anyone need.....the new Power MAC or Nintendo Revolution (I refuse to call it Wii) when the Commodore 64 will do the job? According to his needs puts a glass ceiling on innovation. The progress the soviets made in the space race was due to the needs of the state, not the needs of any individual.
9. For socialism to be truly implemented, the government must assume vast powers. Once assumed, what guarantee is there that the government will not abuse these powers?
None. Ethics. That's why it dosen't work.
Should it continue to be persued given it's shortcomings?
10. Do people try to accumulate more or less power?
More power, less responsability. Power is not the problem. I would love if we had a single tyrant that ruled the world, but did good things.
I've had that discussion as well. A benevolent dictator....sadly not to happen (in our lifetime, at least).
11. What if 1 or 2 people in said country decided they didn't feel socialism was right for them. Would the government be justified in using any and all means to implement the system for the greater good?
No. But they could say "If you are not happy, get out of here and go live in France!", sounds familiar anyway.
Is coersion via "Go live in France" an acceptable substitute for violence?
13. In a socialist system, who's interests should/will take precedence in case of child rearing? Parents, or the State?
At school, state. Outside school, parents.
Does the state's interests lie in perpetuation of the system in spite of it's shortcomings? Should the state provide moral or ethical teachings that contradict those of a parent?
14. Should religious institutions be permitted in socialist societies?
Why not?
Because they teach that there's a higher power than the state, and typically socialist countries are unwelcoming to religious insitutions.
16. Given that the socialist death toll is at 100 million and counting, vastly outpacing "facist" numbers, does socialism get a free pass because it's more "altruistic"...at least on the surface? Can any ideology that results in the death of even one life be considered to be altruisitic?
I don't remember reading on Karl Marx works that genocide was necessary. Don't mix up the system, to whom has tried to apply it.
No, but Marx's disciples have been implementing murder on a massive scale since the October Revolution.
17. What is the difference between Facism and Communism? Do they not both lead to state control of the economy, thus making ideologies irrelevant?
Who do you think controls the economy in the US? Or UK? Or Australia? Facism is a ruling policy, comunism is an economical and social system.
Right, but they both result in totalitarian control OF the economy.
"Supporting socialism for fear of facism is suicide for fear of death" - Not sure who said it but I LOVE it.