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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 38
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Lot of trickery going on in that scene. A lot.
I also did some mouth changes for "You must cross the great desert," "He's resourceful" (Yumyum), "Father, I can handle it" ... etc.
I'm glad it works.
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For that scene, you really did a great job of re-editing it since it was so warped in the Calvert cut, so that's the only nitpicky thing I found.
Also, have you considered using Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture during the war machine sequence with the thief? I synched the last 6 minutes or so with it and it fit perfectly. If you need the mp3, I'll upload it.
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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It was difficult - the Thief scenes are supposed to go in a certain order, and I had to throw that out the window to fit them into what I was doing.
I thought it was kind of interesting to include a reference to Yumyum's mother.
I'm embarrassed by the whole thing, but that was the decision I made, so meh.
>> Also, have you considered using Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture during the war machine sequence with the thief?
Send me an MP3. Of that or any music you think should be in the film. Not much time left to do so!
And you still owe me one (1) pan & scan Roger Rabbit.
=)
Hurry with that, could you? In the words of Jessica Rabbit, "I'm running out of time!"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7soCQ9KQOE
All right, I need to figure out how to do good conversions to DivX and Xvid on this Mac. Quicktime won't even do it right ... the version of Divx I have there is broken, nothing works on it. I think they took all the capability out of it to force me to use MPEG-4. Which doesn't give much compression bang for the filesize.
No advice from PC users please ... Mac users give me some advice here.
Right now I'm downloading the Create bundle ... again ... from divx.com and I'll let you know how that goes.
ADDENDUM - Downloaded. Installed. Found a serial #. Their Divx creator is a little doodad with no apparent functionality. Christ, I hate this crap! They design it to look simple, have no buttons, like we're idiots and are impressed by that. If we're creating videos, we don't want cute doodads, we want programs that work. It lets me select a few presets, and there is a "custom" setting that I can't customize. I click Preferences and nothing happens.
Well ... once I ask it to encode something it does seem to be letting me specify settings now. I just hate this cutesy crap.
ADDENDUM - Well, this is slow. Like, 5 hours for 5 minutes slow. Hm. Then again, I was asking it to really compress the hell out of this video.
Still could use some Xvid advice ... Xvid conversion for Mac. I have FFmpeg and a few others which have never worked right for me for most things.
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CBS announced that it's starting a new web television station, called .... Innertube TV.
Excuse me?
The late Jim Henson and I would like a word with you.
Here's the intro from my cable access series .... you decide!
http://www.orangecow.org/videos/ocppresentsintro2.mov
(Innertube TV was the name of the unaired pilot for The Jim Henson Hour, one of my favorite shows as a kid. I coopted the unused theme song for my cable access series, figuring SOMEONE ought to use it ... and people took to calling it that.)
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Tonight, I'm doing a marathon of transferring (I want to send you a DVD rip of When Comedy Was King). You'll get that, the Harry Langdon shorts, all my classical music, the clips for I Drew Roger Rabbit and Animating art, etc.
Also, can you email me your address? I can't seem to find it at hand. You'll probably get WFRR first.
BTW, want an interesting parallel? As you saw my thread on "Napoleon" on SAF... Kevin Brownlow was the editor for Charge of the Light Brigade. Brownlow spent 3 decades of his life restoring Napoleon (1950's through 1980's)
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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Any guesses on the cut-out shot I was talking about before? Anyone?
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
In pt. 14, we meet the Mad and Holy Old Witch of the Desert Mountain!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7soCQ9KQOE
Nice seeing the improvements here. I especially like the way you've used the music to an excellent effect during some of the transitions such as the fades.
Though I don't know what functions this might have, codecs like DivX offers choices such as doing one-pass or "multipass", as well as whether to go slow, stardard or fast. I too often pick or choose between options when I do my captures as well as change the bitrate depending on how much I want for my videos.
Still could use some Xvid advice ... Xvid conversion for Mac. I have FFmpeg and a few others which have never worked right for me for most things.
In pt. 14, we meet the Mad and Holy Old Witch of the Desert Mountain!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7soCQ9KQOE
Nice seeing the improvements here. I especially like the way you've used the music to an excellent effect during some of the transitions such as the fades.
All right, I need to figure out how to do good conversions to DivX and Xvid on this Mac. Quicktime won't even do it right ... the version of Divx I have there is broken, nothing works on it. I think they took all the capability out of it to force me to use MPEG-4. Which doesn't give much compression bang for the filesize.
No advice from PC users please ... Mac users give me some advice here.
OK, I won't try to say anything about this, and I haven't used Macs in years.
I know how upset you are. I was mad they discontinued the "Dr. DivX" program I'm still clinging onto on my PC. That one was a bit simple, but still workable for what I have to do with it.
ADDENDUM - Well, this is slow. Like, 5 hours for 5 minutes slow. Hm. Then again, I was asking it to really compress the hell out of this video.
No advice from PC users please ... Mac users give me some advice here.
OK, I won't try to say anything about this, and I haven't used Macs in years.
Right now I'm downloading the Create bundle ... again ... from divx.com and I'll let you know how that goes.
ADDENDUM - Downloaded. Installed. Found a serial #. Their Divx creator is a little doodad with no apparent functionality. Christ, I hate this crap! They design it to look simple, have no buttons, like we're idiots and are impressed by that. If we're creating videos, we don't want cute doodads, we want programs that work. It lets me select a few presets, and there is a "custom" setting that I can't customize. I click Preferences and nothing happens.
Well ... once I ask it to encode something it does seem to be letting me specify settings now. I just hate this cutesy crap.
ADDENDUM - Downloaded. Installed. Found a serial #. Their Divx creator is a little doodad with no apparent functionality. Christ, I hate this crap! They design it to look simple, have no buttons, like we're idiots and are impressed by that. If we're creating videos, we don't want cute doodads, we want programs that work. It lets me select a few presets, and there is a "custom" setting that I can't customize. I click Preferences and nothing happens.
Well ... once I ask it to encode something it does seem to be letting me specify settings now. I just hate this cutesy crap.
I know how upset you are. I was mad they discontinued the "Dr. DivX" program I'm still clinging onto on my PC. That one was a bit simple, but still workable for what I have to do with it.
ADDENDUM - Well, this is slow. Like, 5 hours for 5 minutes slow. Hm. Then again, I was asking it to really compress the hell out of this video.
Though I don't know what functions this might have, codecs like DivX offers choices such as doing one-pass or "multipass", as well as whether to go slow, stardard or fast. I too often pick or choose between options when I do my captures as well as change the bitrate depending on how much I want for my videos.
Still could use some Xvid advice ... Xvid conversion for Mac. I have FFmpeg and a few others which have never worked right for me for most things.
Well you won't be able to get any from me then, but hopefully some here will suggest a few options.
Chris Sobieniak
For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Russian Easter Overture (around 9:00 to the end - awesome): www.ctufilms.com/rimskykorsakovrussianeasteroverture.mp3
Though I don't know what functions this might have, codecs like DivX offers choices such as doing one-pass or "multipass", as well as whether to go slow, stardard or fast. I too often pick or choose between options when I do my captures as well as change the bitrate depending on how much I want for my videos.
Leeloo Dallas Mooooltipass?
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
- Time
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRDVencOkc8
The sound in the war machine sequence (and entire ending) in the Emule workprint is very distorted - it was transferred too loud, and the quality suffers greatly because of it. It's sad to have to go back to the sound on the Stanch workprint for this, but I have no other choice. I am only using the Emule workprint for a few sequences, mostly small bits of dialogue.
I just realized I screwed up the color correcting on the end credits, so I have to redo that now.
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In the 1980s Williams claimed to have had 15 minutes of the film completed, and when the Completion Bond firm took over in 1992, they claimed that 70 minutes was completed.
Seeing that the Bond firm came in to complete the project, wouldn't that mean that the 70 minute figure was innacurate?
Do you believe that 70 minutes of completed film exists as done under the supervision of Williams, or did Williams lie about the film's progress and end up showing a hastily thrown-together workprint for studio execs?
In other words - does Williams possess more than what you have resource wise, or do you believe he just has what we have access to, but in better quality?
Because I think the ultimate coup for this project would be not only getting Williams' approval, but having him donate copies of whatever resources he has for the unofficial restoration.
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I've been following this project since you announced it, OCP, but over the past few weeks I've been slightly concerned about something. You keep saying that you're keeping in this Calvert part because you like it, you're using such and such music because you think it fits better - I don't see this as being the "Director's cut" as your title says, but more a really complex fan edit. If you're going to go with your vision rather than trying to stick as close as possible to the original film, why call it a director's cut at all? Perhaps you originally concieved it as such, but it's evolved slightly past that point, I think. Maybe I'm wrong, and you're simply being creative with parts in which you have nothing that could match Williams' original vision, but by some of your comments it doesn't sound like that.
I guess I just have a problem with you labelling it a director's cut if you're not following that ideal as closely as you can. I think that if Williams saw this and reacted how his son feared, he might have good reason. But I am still highly anticipating the release of the final version, and I would love for you to prove my fears wrong. Regardless of the exactities, you're doing an amazing thing.
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I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.
Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.
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But you have to think of the ethics of it. In this case, the materials to work from are an incomplete workprint, a pan & scan DVD of the first release version, a widescreen DVD of the further cut U.S. release, the recut workprint, and a few odds and ends.
On one level, I think that it should be as close to the workprint as possible - nothing less and nothing more, warts and all...
There's a bigger problem, though... the point is to get people interested in the film so there's an incentive for Disney to put the money into a true restoration. One problem I've seen with some "scholarly" restorations is that they didn't really take any precaution to make sure the film is easier to watch. That's why we're getting Calvert animation in place of storyboards - as mediocre the animation is, it still grabs attention better than the storyboards (which are superb, anyways). There's also the factor of having to use audio from the recuts because of higher fidelity (or in same cases, due to the workprints having unusable audio).
We can't assume the workprint is the exact flow that Richard Williams intended - mainly due to missing footage that doesn't turn up until the Calvert workprint, unfinished audio, and the screenplay being so loosely followed. For example, we know that the shot of the Thief trying to steal an emerald was much longer since footage appears ONLY in the first recut's credits - same thing for the attempt to use springs to get the golden statue. We can maybe assume Williams meant to cut it, but the workprint still has a shot of the Thief walking away injured with a spring on his foot. Then, we know that Williams intended to trim parts of the Thief pole vaulting and the war machine stuff. But what would he have cut out?
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
- Time
- Post link
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Uh, ocpmovie was banned, so we'll continue stuff on this project on Something Awful Forums: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1826221&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
Uh, ocpmovie was banned, so we'll continue stuff on this project on Something Awful Forums: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1826221&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
Saw a message in my Hotmail inbox I still ahven't read, but I think I have to pay to use SomethingAwful right?
Chris Sobieniak
For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Uh, ocpmovie was banned, so we'll continue stuff on this project on Something Awful Forums: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1826221&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
Uh, ocpmovie was banned, so we'll continue stuff on this project on Something Awful Forums: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1826221&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
I'll wait for his return here. I was only a member on there because someone paid for me and at the time it was worth the 10 bucks. Since the file section left, not my scene to pay 10 bucks for.
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Dr. M
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For those concerned, please do not take this as an endorsement of what went on in forum 9, as I want nothing to do with it.
Garrett writes:
Somethingawful is a pay forum. We'll continue our
discussion here. Don't worry. (For more discussion of
me being banned, check out the LID: Laserdisc is dead
thread in forum 9.)
Feedmyleg: Since the film was never completed by
Williams, it's difficult to create a true "director's
cut" exactly matching the workprint - the workprint
does feel unfinished, which it is. I wanted to present
the film in a much more completed form, and that
requires going into Calvert footage which matches the
workprint (which sometimes changes the presentation of
the story slightly), adding music and sound effects
where none existed before, and generally challenging
the editing in the workprint, saying that it was
temporary and could perhaps be jazzed up a bit in
places.
Roy Naisbitt himself said that Dick would have
made further cuts to the film for the final version.
That said, the title of the project is still
"Recobbled Director's Cut." It is the Director's
Workprint that I'm recobbling this film to match. I am
taking some creative license here, but this film will
indeed be very true to Williams' vision, about a
thousand times closer than any released version of
course. The "Recobbled" part is enough to suggest that
this is a mixture of versions and not a straight
workprint presentation.
Dick Williams, if he were to see it, may or may
not like it. He was very particular about this film to
say the least and I hope that it is completed in his
style someday.
>>In the 1980s Williams claimed to have had 15 minutes
of the film completed, and when the Completion Bond
firm took over in 1992, they claimed that 70 minutes
was completed.
Seeing that the Bond firm came in to complete the
project, wouldn't that mean that the 70 minute figure
was innacurate?
Do you believe that 70 minutes of completed film
exists as done under the supervision of Williams, or
did Williams lie about the film's progress and end up
showing a hastily thrown-together workprint for studio
execs?
70 minutes of completed Williams footage sounds
about right, if you've seen the workprint. There's a
lot of completed stuff in there, and there's even more
which didn't make it to the workprint but was
pencilled (or finished entirely) and appears in
Calvert's version or the WIP.
The 15 minute figure given in 1988 or so is a very
odd one, as he had more like 35 minutes done in 1978
or so, and probably had more than that done in 1972.
Williams kept redoing footage and throwing it away, so
the 15 minute figure is probably because he had just
declared a lot of old work out of date, which would be
redone for the final.
Certainly much of the completed animation that's in
the workprint - the 70 minutes - was material that had
already been animated before, in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Note that most of it involves The Thief, the Witch,
Zigzag, the War Machine ... all supporting characters
from the earlier versions going back to Nasruddin.
There is less material done with Tack and Yumyum, who
were developed farther in post-Nasruddin.
Somethingawful is a pay forum. We'll continue our
discussion here. Don't worry. (For more discussion of
me being banned, check out the LID: Laserdisc is dead
thread in forum 9.)
Feedmyleg: Since the film was never completed by
Williams, it's difficult to create a true "director's
cut" exactly matching the workprint - the workprint
does feel unfinished, which it is. I wanted to present
the film in a much more completed form, and that
requires going into Calvert footage which matches the
workprint (which sometimes changes the presentation of
the story slightly), adding music and sound effects
where none existed before, and generally challenging
the editing in the workprint, saying that it was
temporary and could perhaps be jazzed up a bit in
places.
Roy Naisbitt himself said that Dick would have
made further cuts to the film for the final version.
That said, the title of the project is still
"Recobbled Director's Cut." It is the Director's
Workprint that I'm recobbling this film to match. I am
taking some creative license here, but this film will
indeed be very true to Williams' vision, about a
thousand times closer than any released version of
course. The "Recobbled" part is enough to suggest that
this is a mixture of versions and not a straight
workprint presentation.
Dick Williams, if he were to see it, may or may
not like it. He was very particular about this film to
say the least and I hope that it is completed in his
style someday.
>>In the 1980s Williams claimed to have had 15 minutes
of the film completed, and when the Completion Bond
firm took over in 1992, they claimed that 70 minutes
was completed.
Seeing that the Bond firm came in to complete the
project, wouldn't that mean that the 70 minute figure
was innacurate?
Do you believe that 70 minutes of completed film
exists as done under the supervision of Williams, or
did Williams lie about the film's progress and end up
showing a hastily thrown-together workprint for studio
execs?
70 minutes of completed Williams footage sounds
about right, if you've seen the workprint. There's a
lot of completed stuff in there, and there's even more
which didn't make it to the workprint but was
pencilled (or finished entirely) and appears in
Calvert's version or the WIP.
The 15 minute figure given in 1988 or so is a very
odd one, as he had more like 35 minutes done in 1978
or so, and probably had more than that done in 1972.
Williams kept redoing footage and throwing it away, so
the 15 minute figure is probably because he had just
declared a lot of old work out of date, which would be
redone for the final.
Certainly much of the completed animation that's in
the workprint - the 70 minutes - was material that had
already been animated before, in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Note that most of it involves The Thief, the Witch,
Zigzag, the War Machine ... all supporting characters
from the earlier versions going back to Nasruddin.
There is less material done with Tack and Yumyum, who
were developed farther in post-Nasruddin.
I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.
Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.
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We value his contributions to the forum and the work he's doing in the community, and we don't want to see this project interrupted unnecessarily.
MTFBWY…A
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snipped
I've been reading SA. If ocpmovie is going to shun this forum and bash its moderators elsewhere, he certainly won't use it to communicate with anyone. - Jay
I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.
Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.
- Time
- Post link
snipped
I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.
Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
snipped
I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.
Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.