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.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 18

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Presumptions are pointless at this stage, but moaning on about light saber colours and will they get the saturation right etc, is pointless. We don't have a frame of reference for any of these things anymore, as no one has seen the originals in the theatres in years. If you can remember what the colours were like when you last saw the OOT in theatres your a better man than me.
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Goes without saying.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, I say that it would be best to continue the X0 Project. I still plan on making my first donation soon. I'm sorry that I haven't yet, but there have been so many things come up.

I have more faith in the X0 Project than the Official release since the 2004 DVD's were so screwed up. When I say screwed up, I'm talking about the colors, reversed audio, etc. and not the added CGI stuff. I hated that as well though.

I could be wrong, but also I think all of these homemade DVD versions of Star Wars had something to do with Lucas's decision. The other factor is of course money.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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What Fatned in the General Discussion forum posted disturbs me greatly:

" I hate to be a negative nancy and piss on everyone's parade, but Lucas isn't doing this because of overwhelming demand, internet petitions, or because he's suddenly been possessed by Shebastian Shaw. It's simply a business decision. Remember this little tidbit:

"The other movie, it’s on VHS, if anybody wants it. ...[] ... it doesn’t really exist anymore."

His lawyers must have shit enough bricks to build a great wall along the mexican border. That statement would make it almost impossible to sue anybody for copying/distributing copies of the real Star Wars. How could he claim damages resulting from someone copying something that "doesn't really exist anymore?" The release of "the other movie" on dvd will change that. He'll be able to claim lost revenues for this dvd. He'll be able to sue anyone copying and/or distributing copies of TRSW and he'll win in court.

He probably wasn't lying when he said the OOT would never be released on dvd. His lawyers on the other hand, after he made the foolish statement quoted above, obviously let him know only an idiot would disown a piece of work that is such a huge money maker. A good lesson for all artists, don't ever disown a piece of work no matter how much you despise it, it may cost you considerable $$ down the road.

On the positive side, at least you get the OOT on dvd like you've always wanted! Too bad you have to buy the crap versions too! But Lucas is still the selfish fat hack he's always been. (Gee, can you tell I still hate his fatnecked guts?)

Ned"

__________________

I believe what he says is true, that might bring LFL lawyers beating down our doors. I pray they won't post a cease and disist notice on this forum as we know LFL has people watching us.
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That's why this thing may have to go completely underground.
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Patrick, the X0 isn't dead yet.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
If anybody remembers the Chicago Tribune article, I think one of the persons involved said even if Lucas suddenly announced the release of the originals, he would finish it just to see how it measured up. I have a feeling this project and most definitely this site may have been decisive in getting the originals released because Lucas doesn't want to lose money from fans that he could get.


If I'm not mistaken, that was OCPmovie and his Classic Editions. Which makes me wonder why he's so upset.
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Original Trilogy.com in the Press

"I have had a lot of fun doing what I'm doing, and someday might even like to do something like this for a living," adds Payton, who is serving in the military. "I'd say even if by some miracle Lucas decides to release the original `Original Trilogy' right in the middle of our project, I think I'd still finish it, just to see how well it stacks up to the real thing."


Please keep up the fun!

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Let's say, for argument's sake, that the picture quality is perfect on the new release. The sound is still not going to be as rich as the PCM from the XØ Project.

My belief on the new release is that they should make both crawls available on "Star Wars" via a multi-angle option. It's ten-year-old technology so there is no excuse for it not being done.

PCM being too much to expect from LFL, I would still expect them to release the REAL mono soundtrack as an option for SW, and the ORIGINAL 5.1 mix for Jedi. They created a real 5.1 mix (wasn't it the first in history, sparking the now-ubiquitous surround-sound trend?) so it only makes sense that it should be preserved.

2.0 is fine for ESB, though there are some notably different mixes. I personally think every official mix on each film pre-SE should be included. I'll keep wishing.

This is SUPPOSED to be a preservation of sorts from LFL, but it already sounds like a money-grabbing hack job. I'll buy it to protect my license and give George his pound of flesh, then likely watch the XØ Project release instead. The lawyers shouldn't have a problem with that, should they?

P.S. I hope you guys will update the x0project.com home page soon with info on why your work is still important. Call Lucas out on the carpet for what has been announced thus-far.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Couple of questions for the X0 team (not related to the new DVD releases).
Sorry if these have been answered before: I *have* read this whole thread and the newsletters, but I never got clear answers to these questions.

1. Does theX0 project (one of the members) actually own the HLD-X0?

Or is it just a loaner from someone/once off?

2. Did you ever try the 5 x re-sampling like Citizen tried with his German PAL LDs? (Or any amount of re-sampling).

He appears to have gotten another incremental level of accuracy/detail out of that, but perhaps it wouldn't be so useful for the X0 - maybe it gets pretty much all the original encoded detail that is there (I seem to remember it internally does some resampling of several analog paths)


Thanks.

Darth Lucas: I am altering the trilogy. Pray I don't alter it further.
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I absolutely agree with casualimp, in fact I said something similar on another thread.
What is interesting though is what the legal situation really is since it will be "out of print" by December.

Does that reset the copyright clock or something, or is it once again "no longer available" and no monetary loss can be claimed?
Sometime I wish I was a lawyer and understood the intricacies.
Mind you if it's format dependent, we can just start over in the Hi Def formats...

Dr. M

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"1. Does theX0 project (one of the members) actually own the HLD-X0?

Or is it just a loaner from someone/once off?"

The X0 belongs to someone else. The LDs were sent to said person, and he made the captures for us.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I want to thank everyone for writing in and expressing their concern over our project in light of the recent news from Lucasfilm.

First, let me just say that The X0 Project will continue!

We will finish what we started and I have every reason to believe that it will be just as good - if not better than those $30 DVDs coming out in September.

Check your email for the latest blurb from the X0 Team. Or check it out here.


Originally posted by: ronlaw
2. Did you ever try the 5 x re-sampling like Citizen tried with his German PAL LDs? (Or any amount of re-sampling).

He appears to have gotten another incremental level of accuracy/detail out of that, but perhaps it wouldn't be so useful for the X0 - maybe it gets pretty much all the original encoded detail that is there (I seem to remember it internally does some resampling of several analog paths)


Thanks.

The HLD-X0 player does basically the same thing internally before it outputs the composite signal, so an averaging pass wouldn't do much to improve it.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I'm an eminently trusting person. I will wait till September before I pass judgement on these DVDs.
I think it's hilarious how harsh some people are being though. Pretty much the only preservation project that ever interested me was Moth3rs version, because there was absoultely no bullshit. None of this 'presentation will truly blow your MIIIIND' crap... just the movie. Bam.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Take it from ocp kids:
Don't ever re-edit in what a moderator edits out of your post. You won't get to play with us anymore.

Z
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I really thought the same.
But to make it a bit more fairer to compare make the pictures of the 2004 dvd the same size of the X-Zero ones.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5543/yodabg2.png
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Hey OCP! What on earth are you trying to prove, you even appear to be cheating your comparison shots

The X0 and TR47 shots are about 720pixels wide, which is to be expected, but the shot of Leia, and of Anakin etc. supposedly straight from DVD are 843 x 363pixels.
Now DVDs be 720x480 or 720x576 if NTSC or PAL, do I detect some processed images here, at least compare apples with apples.

And what are the greedo and vader shots meant to prove? The X0 vader shot is blown up by a few hundred percent and has the chroma boosted by a whole heap to show noise levels (as far as I understand it?) , so you compare it to a non blown up DVD shot with the chroma untouched as a comparison?

Ditto for the Tie fighter shot, you take a half resolution image and compare it to a full resolution shot, same again with greedo.

At least be honest with your posts (or were you just to stupid to realise in the case of Vader and the Ties?), at least compare apples with apples.

Aren't you missing the point anyway? My understanding was the X0 project was multifaceted. Wasn't it to get the laserdisc as great as you could so that people like you could use bits from it in your DVD cut and paste projects????
One thing was to preserve the laserdisc copy as best as possible. The other thing was when that was done, then any footage required to do DVD rebuilds like your own classic edition type stuff would then be as good as you could get at the time.

So the new DVD announcement makes the second thing a bit obselete now probably. So what? Why shouldn't they continue on and preserve the laserdisc edition? It is something people are interested in, what skin is it off your nose if they want to finish it.
If the DVD announcement hadn't been made, you would probably be begging them for a copy of the footage for your own projects rather than pissing on them.

You wanna start your own thread about the LID or whatever, feel free, but why piss on other people's projects? It is their business if they want to continue, and they should be able to without you harrassing them for no reason. It is one thing to give an opinion, it is another to just keep shouting in people's faces constantly.

Anyway, you are making some big assumptions aren't you?????
You are assuming that the Lucasfilm release of the untouched trilogy will look as good as the current DVD release, that is yet to be seen.
You are assuming that there won't be any footage that still needs to be replaced.
You are assuming that the X0 guys and TR47 and Mother and Citizen and those chaps won't turn their attention to the DVD release anyway.

No one can even think about working on the new DVDs until September anyway, so why not keep working on current projects till then???

Even assuming all your assumptions are right, I still wanna see the X0 stuff, I enjoy my laserdisc collection, and would like to see what my discs would have looked like if I was rich enough to by a X0 player. I'd like to compare it to the other transfers and see just how far a laserdisc capture can be pushed.

Going on the pictures you did post though, what do I see when I look at the DVDvs X0 pictures you posted? I still see an awful garbage mat around the tie on the DVD picture that is fixed on the X0 picture.
On the anakin DVD picture I see what looks like oversharpening and too much contrast as well as some weird noise in the left hand side behind his head.
I'm assuming the DVD release will have more detail than the X0 transfer, but will it look as good as the new DVD release, maybe maybe not, we won't know until we see it, and neither will you.

Give me the OT or give me death!
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I'd like to see this "LID" project Ocp, the only version from you is so badly pixelated I almost couldn't stand to throw away my HD copy of the Isomix trilogy. When we asked if you were doing a 2.0, it was because we thought you kinda screwed up the first one.

http://orangecow.org/starwars/swcegrab6.jpg
http://orangecow.org/starwars/swcegrab8.jpg

No I'm not picking a fight, but...

http://users.pandora.be/poolmansven/shut-the-fuck-up.jpg

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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It seems we have a new AWK.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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That STFU poster is hilarious - where did you find it?
Give me the OT or give me death!
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I agree, stoppit ocpmovie!

Yes we just recently heard news of excellent new source material which will surely be better than any laserdisc tranfer can hope to be. But that is totally uncalled for! These people, along with all of us who attempted to tinker with the OT, believed that the OOT would never see the light of day again.
So they invested more money, time, and effort than anyone else here to try to obtain the best OOT transfer physically possible. And just because we hear the OOT is coming to DVD (with NO details yet), that does not automatically institute an immediate shutdown of their precious efforts!
I, for one, am still looking forward just as much to the XO project's final release. Who knows, it MAY still be necessary.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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" That STFU poster is hilarious - where did you find it? "

How's this? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/stfu.jpg

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
>>The X0 Project will continue! We will finish what we started and I have every reason to believe that it will be just as good - if not better than those $30 DVDs coming out in September.


I'm sure it will be better than Lucas' DVDs as you claim! After all, everyone knows that laserdisc is higher quality than DVD!
Only time will tell if what they put out will be any better. Resolution-wise - of course it will be better. What I'm saying is that there's no way LFL spent the time and money to clean up the film and resotre the original color like we are.


Originally posted by: ocpmovie

Conclusion: LID project wins. Laserdisc is dead. You claim to be utterly obsessed with quality, but I think you're obsessed with a dead format. If you were really obsessed with quality, you would be working from DVD quality sources, as you could have been doing two years ago when the OT came out on DVD. Some people ridiculed (and ridicule) me for doing this with my Classic Editions, but people seemed to like them. Some people even laughed at PAL sourced laserdiscs which are better quality than NTSC ones, but people seemed to like them. People want to see the OT in good quality - that's why they follow this project. So why on earth are you cleaning up, meticulously, frame by frame, removing dirt and splotches, from a fuzzy old laserdisc transfer? You could have cleaned up the 2004 DVDs instead and been done with this project a year ago.

Well, it's over now. Laserdisc is dead. And I'm glad. We can see the OT in pristine quality.

I am not picking a fight, simply trying to inject some truth and sanity into a thread that has gone, in my eyes, off the deep end.


That's too harsh. What I'm really trying to do is to get this forum to stop looking back at the past and start looking at its own future. When an HD master of Star Wars shows up on some TV channel in a few months, we're not gonna still be sourcing from laserdisc ...

Message ends.


Let's take it from you then, shall we? Because we all know ANH CE was amazingly brilliant in all its quality and expert video editing!

Your attempt to restore the OOT using DVD footage is a prime example of why we didn't do the same thing. You just can't take laserdisc footage and splice it in with the higher-resolution DVD footage. The difference is night and day - especially when you mix the two in a single shot.

The initial purpose of the X0 Project was to create the best transfer possible from the laserdisc. We intend to finish what we started.

As for these new DVDs, will they provide a great starting point for any future projects? Of course they will! We're looking forward to working with them just as much as anyone else.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]