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Sometimes we're too spoiled.
Sometimes we're too spoiled.
***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have! — Page 2
Sometimes we're too spoiled.
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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
basically what they are offering is the same laserdisc master as the definitive collection/Faces releases
basically what they are offering is the same laserdisc master as the definitive collection/Faces releases
I hope that doesn't mean the DVDs will have the butt-ugly temporal smoothing like the definitive/faces/German/French OT LDs have, freeware software of today can clean up grainy video better than paid-for software of 13 years ago, I've gotten some amazing clean-up results with captured grainy LD footage that hasn't been pre-treated before the LD was mastered.
***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Look, there's a couple different interpretations of Ward's statement. Those have been brought up in this thread already. It's way too early to definitively state what's going to happen with these transfers or not, and it's WAY too early to start calling for boycotts and running willy nilly all over the internet trying to pooh-pooh anyone thinking about buying this set. When there's more solid info, yeah, I can see the self-righteousness that Neil is known for rearing it's head and making it's presence felt, but as of right now, way too soon to start stomping on everyone's hopes in the name of eternal disappointment with Lucas
Again, people aren't so much fans of Star Wars as they are fans of BITCHING about Star Wars, and this announcement reinforces that, as does Neil and Tom's immediate negativity towards an announcement a LOT of people have been clamoring for.
Yes, it's entirely possible they're just porting the laserdiscs It's also entirely possible they're using the original elements from the 93 restoration and making a DVD out of THAT.
It's also possible they've been working on this for quite a decent amount of time before it was announced, and if that's the case, then this rush job isn't THAT much of a rush job then, is it?
It's wait and see time. We have till September to see what this thing looks like, to start jumping at shadows and running with possibly skewed interpretations of a marketing mans patter is irresponsible at least.
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Regardless of what they do, the release will be better than any laserdisc or certainly vhs release. Most likely better than any bootleg except possibly X0 project. The fact that the original films (at least in some form) are actually going to be released deserves a lot of praise. Just the fact that dvd has more resolution and telecine transfers have improved should make it look better, even if they do nothing else. It can be pretty much assumed that there will be a blu-ray ultimate set in '07 that should have everything. I'm just surprised Lucas will have released three Star Wars ot dvd sets. What was the point of last years release without the bonus disc?
Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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Here is how it went as far as i know. In 1993 Lucasfilm began preparations for the 20th anniversary and the first thing they did was go back to the original negative. They were horrified to discover it had deteriorated far beyond anyone's expectation and so an exhaustive restoration was undertook. At the same time, Lucas began speculating about redoing special effects, mostly Mos Eisely and the Death Star. The restored negative was finally handed over to ILM where the CGI additions were put in.
Then in 2003 i believe, Lowry Digital began working on the trilogy. Now, i have come to the conclusion that they were working from the negative of the 1997 special edition. Because if they WERENT, if they had a CLEAN un-SE'd version that would mean that ALL of the 1997 SE changes that remained (in other words, 95%) would have to be RE-COMPISITED exactly as they were into the print. I'm 99% sure this didnt happen. They just took the SE, superficially added a few more things like Hayden, redid the one landspeeder shot when entering Mos Eisley and re-comped Jabba. So the Lowry restored version is the SE.
Now, the ORIGINAL original trilogy, unaltered and as it was (probably with the Episode IV crawl) is preserved and cleaned up from the 1997 SE (in 1993). This is probably why Jim Ward says the picture will be from 1993--this was the last and only time the original prints were restored. And like he says, its not as good as the 2004 Lowry restoration--but it was damn close. I mean, you all remember how great it looked in theatres--a scratch here, some grain there but otherwise nice and clean.
So this is why Jim Ward made those infamous comments. Because if he didnt we would all assume its of the same quality as the 2004 Lowry digital edition and when we discovered it was less pristine we would have seiged Skywalker Ranch in anger. So this is preparring us for a still-great but less-than-perfect transfer. The comment about sourcing Lucasfilm archives is probably in reference to obtaining the original crawl element, as well as possibly even implying that the original cleaned-up 1993/1997 print has been stored in the LFL archives since then, since the 2004 used the final SE print as the starting point.
Thats my opinion. I could be wrong but i have a feeling I'm right. I hope i am anyway! So the worst-case scenario that we will just be getting an LD transfer PROBABLY isn't true. I mean i cant think of any reason why my above-hypothesis shouldnt be the case. All the elements are there nice and clean. Lucasfilm is known for their quality, i think its more likely that they would spend a hundred thousand dollars and scan a new high quality telecine of the original restored 1993 print in their archives rather than transfer the noticably-soft LD rip which even casual consumers would realise is poor quality even for an old movie.
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At absolute worst, I think the difference will be comparable to the difference between the early 90s restoration of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and the 2001 DVD; not perfect, but a vast improvement over what was previously available. What I really hope is that the grayscale is maintained a la what Mike Verta was trying to do with his Star Wars Legacy project, among the other corrections he was making. The 2004 DVDs have very crunched blacks.
Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
I think you're on the right track, zombie84. I don't think Fox would distribute the product at this stage of the game if it was simply going to be a port of an LD transfer.
I think you're on the right track, zombie84. I don't think Fox would distribute the product at this stage of the game if it was simply going to be a port of an LD transfer.
Except for the fact that this is being included as a bonus disc. The actual release is the 2004 version with this little bonus disc of that original version included, if anybody wants to even see that.
My prediction is that this little bonus item will be the old 1993 4x3 video transfer on a single layer disc.
Neil
Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.
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Oooookaaaayyy...
Neil, you need to chill for a second. Just because it's a "bonus feature" doesn't mean anything. hell, the theatrical version of E.T. was also a bonus feature. marketing is gonna call it a bonus feature, but marketing is also promoting the Originals like CRAZY over the 2004 editions that are "supposed to be" the primary draw here. So obviously "Bonus features" isn't exactly carrying the same weight as "bonus features" typically does.
Dude, you're just guessing. you don't know just like the rest of us don't know. We got a ways to go, and it seems a lot of people think the ALTERNATE interpretation of Ward's comments are correct. Would I be surprised if it really was just the original LD master ported over? Not really. But then again, I don't really know.
Difference is I'm not taking my spite-fueled "prediction" and running all over the internet trying to stir up a grassroots boycott campaign. You're shooting your load way too early Neil. Ease back. You were right with the swapped surrounds, and got messageboard martyred for it or whatever, but don't get too eager to repeat that whole bit of whirlwind "success" you had. Chill for a second. If you end up being right, THEN it's time to call down the thunder. But you literally DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT yet. None of us do.
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I have no way to prove this of course. (And it's not just wishful thinking. I would have assumed that it would be there.)
Now, will they still have the pretty green Lucasfilm Ltd.?
– Bill
Never tell me the odds.
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Originally posted by: Tallguy
Ok, Starwars.com has apparently edited thier site. Last night it stated that the "Episode IV" would be gone from Star Wars.
I have no way to prove this of course. (And it's not just wishful thinking. I would have assumed that it would be there.)
Now, will they still have the pretty green Lucasfilm Ltd.?
Ok, Starwars.com has apparently edited thier site. Last night it stated that the "Episode IV" would be gone from Star Wars.
I have no way to prove this of course. (And it's not just wishful thinking. I would have assumed that it would be there.)
Now, will they still have the pretty green Lucasfilm Ltd.?
Yes, it was definitly there last night. Are you saying its gone now??
EDIT: Your right!! It used to say "see Star Wars before it was Episode IV, see the original, if date, motion control work, and yes, see Han shoot first." or something like that. That section has been removed. This doesn't necessarily mean that Episode IV will be in the video though, but it is strange that they would alter the news release like that. Maybe they realised that they shouldnt speak of what is and isnt on it until its finalised?? I dunno but it makes me cautious.
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It was more than likely removed for aesthetic reasons than it was anything else, considering they left in the quote that these will be the editions you saw in theaters in 77, 80, and 83.
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zombie84, that's pretty close. Good memory.
– Bill
Never tell me the odds.
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And Scruffy never begs for anything.
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Scruffy sounds like a jilted girlfriend, actually.
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Responding to legions of fans, Lucasfilm and 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment have agreed to release the original versions of the first three Star Wars movies, unmodified by digital enhancements, on Sept. 12. Each of the films, Star Wars (1977), The Empire Strikes Back (1980), and Return of the Jedi (1983) will be released separately and will be accompanied by a second disc offering the digitally reedited version produced in 2004. They will be withdrawn from circulation on Dec. 31. A promo for the new releases states: "See the title crawl to Star Wars before it was known as Episode IV; see the pioneering, if dated, motion-control model work on the attack on the Death Star; groove to Lapti Nek or the Ewok Celebration song like you did when you were a kid; and, yes, see Hans Solo shoot first."
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Yeah... we're all like lemmings going to fork over our cash to the lucas-god... for his table scraps....
Minimal effort, $$$ reward... this is all about business... and while we 'whiny fans' keep screaming that we want OUR films back, he's going to give us the minimum he can...
George Lucas is a whore.... and what's worse is that he's whoring his bastard children instead of cherishing them like they deserve.
It's a sad day, when the Star Wars Trilogy is treated worse than Willow! At least that film received a new anamorphic transfer and a 5.1 mix... or E.T. which has a quality transfer of both versions!
We would scream if this were the only releases of the films... why the hell are you guys williing to accept this disgusting crap that you are being force-fed... We ONLY HAVE NOW to stand up and say DO IT RIGHT!!!! DON'T SHORT CHANGE OUR MEMORIES!!!! DON'T GIVE THE CLASSIC FILMS... THE ONES WE TRULY WANT... LIKE BASTARDS... PERHAPS 'WE' ARE THE BASTARD LOSERS IN THE END.
I for one want quality... If they aren't going to even retransfer the films for this release, you can bet your life that this is the FINAL release of the theatrical versions of the films... Are you willing to live with this crap forever?! I'm not.
(Guys... I'm passionate... and truly on your side... don't flame me... join me!!!)
Before “Intentional Creative Decisions”!!! it was “…A certain point of view”???
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Originally posted by: CorellianSmuggler
Does no one else feel outrage that lucas will short change us like this? Great... he's going to become a bootlegger himself... good for him... what's the difference from what we are doing here and him... oh yeah.. .he has a few generations better copy of the films. If he isn't going to take care of the films, then George is an offensive whore.
Yeah... we're all like lemmings going to fork over our cash to the lucas-god... for his table scraps....
Minimal effort, $$$ reward... this is all about business... and while we 'whiny fans' keep screaming that we want OUR films back, he's going to give us the minimum he can...
George Lucas is a whore.... and what's worse is that he's whoring his bastard children instead of cherishing them like they deserve.
It's a sad day, when the Star Wars Trilogy is treated worse than Willow! At least that film received a new anamorphic transfer and a 5.1 mix... or E.T. which has a quality transfer of both versions!
We would scream if this were the only releases of the films... why the hell are you guys williing to accept this disgusting crap that you are being force-fed... We ONLY HAVE NOW to stand up and say DO IT RIGHT!!!! DON'T SHORT CHANGE OUR MEMORIES!!!! DON'T GIVE THE CLASSIC FILMS... THE ONES WE TRULY WANT... LIKE BASTARDS... PERHAPS 'WE' ARE THE BASTARD LOSERS IN THE END.
I for one want quality... If they aren't going to even retransfer the films for this release, you can bet your life that this is the FINAL release of the theatrical versions of the films... Are you willing to live with this crap forever?! I'm not.
(Guys... I'm passionate... and truly on your side... don't flame me... join me!!!)
Does no one else feel outrage that lucas will short change us like this? Great... he's going to become a bootlegger himself... good for him... what's the difference from what we are doing here and him... oh yeah.. .he has a few generations better copy of the films. If he isn't going to take care of the films, then George is an offensive whore.
Yeah... we're all like lemmings going to fork over our cash to the lucas-god... for his table scraps....
Minimal effort, $$$ reward... this is all about business... and while we 'whiny fans' keep screaming that we want OUR films back, he's going to give us the minimum he can...
George Lucas is a whore.... and what's worse is that he's whoring his bastard children instead of cherishing them like they deserve.
It's a sad day, when the Star Wars Trilogy is treated worse than Willow! At least that film received a new anamorphic transfer and a 5.1 mix... or E.T. which has a quality transfer of both versions!
We would scream if this were the only releases of the films... why the hell are you guys williing to accept this disgusting crap that you are being force-fed... We ONLY HAVE NOW to stand up and say DO IT RIGHT!!!! DON'T SHORT CHANGE OUR MEMORIES!!!! DON'T GIVE THE CLASSIC FILMS... THE ONES WE TRULY WANT... LIKE BASTARDS... PERHAPS 'WE' ARE THE BASTARD LOSERS IN THE END.
I for one want quality... If they aren't going to even retransfer the films for this release, you can bet your life that this is the FINAL release of the theatrical versions of the films... Are you willing to live with this crap forever?! I'm not.
(Guys... I'm passionate... and truly on your side... don't flame me... join me!!!)
Your are outrageous, your don't work for LFL and you have no idea what you are talking about. No one nows what this transfer will look like. Some poeple........
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I have grown to hate Lucas these last 10 years, but I just can't see him putting out a crap product on DVD. Call me naive, but I still think this will satisfy the majority of fans who have wanted the O-OT, but of course there are always going to be some fans that are never happy.
I have one theory in that they are making these versions worse quality wise to prove a point that the SE are superior, and possibly turn the non-hardcore fans off about the O-OT. Lucas knows he can't change the diehards, but there are many younger fans on the bubble who have never seen Han shoot first. So in the end, many fans will just buy these just to have them for history sake, but will chose the SE for quality reasons in the end. This way Lucas makes his money, and he can say he released the O-OT. Just a theory......
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It seems that we've been divided once again. There are those of us like Neil who are immediately suspicious. I admit that I am a bit wary myself, and, beyond my initial celebration, I won't be dealing out any praise until I pop those suckers in my DVD player and find out whether or not we've gotten what we've clamored for. I'm not suggesting boycotting them, because, as many have pointed out, we just don't know what it's going to be. But I'm also a bit annoyed with those who are immediately reversing every bad thing they said about Lucas (I admit that I said this when I first found out, but I've come back down to earth) just because of this announcement. There are still four months to go, and I really doubt that Lucas is suddenly standing around in a big, red Santa Claus outfit, chuckling heartily throwing down presents to all of us good kids who have waited for so long. I doubt he's happy about this at all. And I know if Santa gave me the exact opposite of what I wanted for ten years straight and then sent me a letter in April saying that I was finally going to get exactly what I wanted, I'd be a little suspicious that the fat bastard would screw me over again. So let's all just get a little perspective. The worst-case scenario is always possible with Lucas. On the other hand, we could finally be satisfied and rejoice in the streets. And I certainly hope that's the case. I'm very, very excited about this announcement, and I can't wait until September because of it. But let's not take leave of our senses until we know exactly what we're dealing with.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.