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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 36

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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Wouldn't work in the least. Noise reduction is a crapshoot as is.

Even if we lived in an alternate universe where that did work, that would take away all the quality that's the reason I'm using the Princess sound in the first place.


A lot of the material I'm using has minimal score actually ... but the FX-heavy soundtrack gives it away every time. =(


Yeah, that's what I thought. It seemed like a good idea at the time!


By the way, looks like my applications for Feature Screenwriting and Film Production at Georgia State U. have been turned down. I'm still on the waiting list, but I didn't make the top. I can at least fulfill credits by taking more film history courses (at least involving some of my favorites - Hitchcock and neo-realism), but I'm aching to get into actual creative work.

Maybe I should just go into film historian fields...
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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My opinion: You don't learn how to make films at film school. You learn how to make films by making films, as many as possible. For example - I was working on four features and a 3-hour musical script in the first half of the year 1999 alone ... my last year of high school.

Film school did help. It focused my creativity by giving me an unappreciative audience, forcing me to step my game up to professional level to avoid ridicule. Apart from that, take it or leave it.

You learn how to write screenplays by writing screenplays. You learn how to edit by editing. That's the way it goes ...
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Yeah, you're right. Although, I feel that I could learn a lot of the mechanics in a professional way. By professional, I mean what gets you paid.

I did check out a great book on screenplay writing... while I disagree with some points in it, it gave me a lot of ideas and advice that's helping me form something coherent. I want to please myself creatively, but I also want others to enjoy it as much as I do.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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I picked up some bad habits in film school along with the good, and I've seen good writers ruined by film school, ruined by reading textbooks on what your average screenplay is.

I knew a guy who was a gifted writer ... his screenplays were very Hollywood, and would sell ... he needed to learn experimentation, to push the envelope creatively.

Instead he learned structure and theory, which he already knew. He was a very Hollywood writer before, and they drilled it ten thousand times more into his brain until he became the most boring and banal writer you can think of. Suddenly his scripts were derivative junk, and he'd write terrible endings to all of them which ignored the characters entirely, seeming to say to the audience, "you're stupid, so this is what you're supposed to want" ... rather than what they really wanted.


Cautionary fucking tale. What films need are new ideas. Fuck film school and fuck film theory.
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Starting sound editing on part 2.

This is the part of the edit where I look at what works and what doesn't ... and think, what INSANELY COMPLICATED THINGS can I create ... which shots can I animate, what new shots can I create, to make this work?

This is the part where I go insane ... again. You may recall when I did this on part 1.


http://orangecow.org/thief/gasp5.jpg

Gasp!

This was a pan & scan shot, where you didn't see Tack or Yumyum's hands/elbows on the sides. You may recall my earlier attempt at this shot, which looked ridiculous.

This entire shot has been entirely reanimated by myself, frame by frame. I drew a new mouth on Tack, drew a new elbow on Yumyum, a new hand on Tack, and a new right hip. I redrew Tack and Yumyum's hats a bit. I cut out Tack and Yumyum to place them on a new backdrop. I did some other things. All this in Photoshop, frame by frame, whole shot.

Yep. I'm insane.

Lovely, huh?


Let's talk witch scene.


The entire witch scene has only been released on DVD in pan & scan, since it was cut from the Miramax release.

I decided, as you know, to convert it to widescreen anyway. Here are the final results.


http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch1.jpg

Pan & scan witch placed on a new background by me. Her spotlight is keyed in from the workprint over the background. The background changes lightness and color as the lighting changes.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch3.jpg

Same shot ... Her hands are now keyed in from the workprint at the sides, and placed over the new background.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch2.jpg

Same shot. Suddenly it starts moving! Combination of new moving background (matchmoved to match the real shot), pan & scan DVD and workprint. The background changes lightness and color as the lighting changes.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch4.jpg

New background drawn in for pan & scan Calvert shot, not in the workprint.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch5.jpg

New background drawn in for pan & scan Calvert shot, not in the workprint. Shot cropped to widescreen.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch6.jpg

New background drawn in for pan & scan Calvert shot, not in the workprint. I created an image of the eunuchs carrying the treasure box ... you don't see much of it, but it's very detailed, taken from various screen grabs ... and I animated that into the shot using keyframes. It moves.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch7.jpg

This shot used to be only in pan & scan. Yep. I created a new background for it (from other screen grabs), and matchmoved it to the moving pan & scan shot ... panning down as the Thief falls. It transitions to the Miramax shot invisibly at the very end.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch8.jpg

This shot isn't in the workprint either ... the pan & scan image is placed over rare footage from the Calvert WIP.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch9.jpg
Two originally black and white shots have been colorized with a blue sky and brown hand.

http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch10.jpg
Pan & scan shot placed over workprint, seamlessly.

Ditto:
http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch11.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch12.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch13.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/widewitch14.jpg
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Wow! It's so much more seamless... and I see that the last "fumes" shot utilizes the Calvert WIP version.

BTW, I used Photoshop to do a color replace:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/enuchs.jpg

I had to cut a matte around them, though, since it would slightly darken Tack due to his grey shades. (BTW, what's with his hands being so huge in that shot?)

What's funny is that you can tell it was inked and painted in Korea... because they did the same thing to black characters when the Looney Tunes were colorized in the 1960's. One cartoon has a gag with a ghost in blackface and he's in purpleface instead.

Ah, political correctness...
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Okay you win. I'm going through the movie and turning them black in most shots.
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For Andreas Wessel-Therhorn, who animated the lackeys, I decided to do a very complex restoration on a few shots which ARE in the Miramax cut, but in which the lackeys are blown out and hard to see. The pan & scan image was very carefully merged with the DVD image. This was the hardest shot I've had to do for this edit.

"get those balls ..."
Original at top, mine on bottom.

RESTORED!

http://orangecow.org/thief/getthoseballsrestoration.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/getthoseballsrestoration2.jpg
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Done.




Black in every shot I think.


Whoa, I was only showing it as an example (I didn't think color correcting would be practical, not to mention worthwhile). You keep doing all these awesome corrections.

By the way... I noticed some more oddities from the re-cuts. The shots of Zig-Zag charging after Tack, then grabbing Yum-Yum are in ones. Does this mean it was a Williams origin shot or did an animator get away with drawing it better? Also, I noticed that really awful added shot of the Thief at the banana leaves. Ugh. The pullback at the end seems to be in ones (which makes sense since we see the snow/confetti camera test in that test reel), but the close-up for "I love you" is in twos. You probably noticed this, but did you spot the gags in the background while Zig-Zag is showing Mighty One-Eye the map? I spotted one of the One-Eyes holding two female One-Eyes under his arms and they're squirming.

Also, is the Calvert WIP basically everything from Williams (and the other London animators post-takeover - for shots like for "The end") regardless of completeness? Obviously, with the crude storyboards added in for Calvert's version. It also seems like he wanted less to be cut out - as seen by the longer bathtub scene, the Maiden scene, more war machine, and fewer overdubs. One change that never made sense to me is the overdub for Mighty One-Eye. Unless I'm missing something, none of his dialogue was changed or added to, so what gives? Paul Matthews' voice is just demonic... like the rest of the redubbers, Kevin Dorseys' voice is just lame.

ADD:

Wow, I was actually going to suggest that for the shot, but again didn't think it would be worth the trouble. I actually overlaid the Princess DVD that way for a forum signature (so Zig-Zag looked bluer). I'm convinced that the telecine operator for the Japanese DVD transfer decided to take a nap instead of carefully adjusting the image.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Very little has been added to King Nod either, yet they redub him. Eh. (Of course they planned a lot of extra lines for King Nod as seen in the WIP.)


A good chunk of the Calvert stuff is actually on ones if you look. Certainly much of the Tack/Zigzag fight is on ones. I have sped up some stuff in my cut to put it on ones, or used other tricks.


The confetti and the pullback is actually on twos to start with.



A lot of the Williams stuff is on twos if you look too ... only when appropriate though.




It's not clear what actual Williams animation, if any, made it to the final version that wasn't in the Calvert WIP. The London team did a pretty good job finishing some Williams shots.

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Holy....shit. Good lord man, now I know where all that money went:

Crank. Lots and lots of it.

That is some truly ungodly work you did. The color adjustments you did on the edges of the pan-and-scan DVD did absolute wonders for the P&S over widescreen shots. That's absolutely beautiful Garrett. I had no idea how insane this was going to get. Nice.

But one thing I just noticed--in that last corrected shot of Zigzag with the lackeys, why is his cloak green on the right and bottom sides? In the other corrected shot, the color is consistent. Odd.

But again...wow. I'm really impressed with how improved the witch scenes are. They were a real mess, and only having the P&S and workprint to work with didn't help. Get some sleep man. I would send you money, but I'm down to cashing in my change to buy fucking gas. God, I hate being broke. Haven't been this destitute since I was 16 (five years ago). Cannot...wait...till...summer.
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Party on!

>> I had no idea how insane this was going to get. Nice.

You're still surprised? =) With how insane things have gotten already, one shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore.


>> But one thing I just noticed--in that last corrected shot of Zigzag with the lackeys, why is his cloak green on the right and bottom sides? In the other corrected shot, the color is consistent. Odd.



No such thing as consistent color in this sequence ... anywhere. You have no idea how difficult it was to get it looking like one shot. There was no similarity.



EDIT: That said, screw it. Screw excuses. I just fixed it. I fixed the robes with chromakey. Looks great now.


>>> One-Eyes holding two female One-Eyes under his arms and they're squirming.


Looks like more of Sahin Ersoz's work.
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OBSCURE VIDEO FORMAT REQUEST!

Michael Sporn writes:

Tissa David animated for about a year and a half on The Thief, round 1977. I have all of her pencil tests on video, however there's a big problem. She worked on an old style Lyon-Lamb machine, reel-to-reel tape. When the machine died on her, she wasn't able to view these tests, so she gave them to me. About three reels full of them and other animation she did at the time. I haven't been able to find anyone who can figure out how to transfer these old tapes - done at 24fps on that machine - to any other useable format. If you can figure it out, you're welcome to a copy of them.
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Wow! It's so much more seamless... and I see that the last "fumes" shot utilizes the Calvert WIP version.

BTW, I used Photoshop to do a color replace:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/enuchs.jpg
I had to cut a matte around them, though, since it would slightly darken Tack due to his grey shades. (BTW, what's with his hands being so huge in that shot?)
Now it's perfect!

What's funny is that you can tell it was inked and painted in Korea... because they did the same thing to black characters when the Looney Tunes were colorized in the 1960's. One cartoon has a gag with a ghost in blackface and he's in purpleface instead.

Ah, political correctness...

I'm surprised you had to bring up those atrocities. I had to grow up on those horrible things back when the Looney Tunes were still on UHF television. I even have several of these cartoons on 16mm (with the Warner-Bros.-7 Arts logo I grew too fond of).

Nowadays cels from those redrawns get sold for rediculous prices on eBay. I'm surprised they weren't incinerated!

Lord knows we should never go back to those dark days of color television!

HA! Here's one I spot from "Ali Baba Bound!"
http://images.andale.com/f2/113/114/23383504/1146448878304_Image.jpg
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
OBSCURE VIDEO FORMAT REQUEST!

Michael Sporn writes:

Tissa David animated for about a year and a half on The Thief, round 1977. I have all of her pencil tests on video, however there's a big problem. She worked on an old style Lyon-Lamb machine, reel-to-reel tape. When the machine died on her, she wasn't able to view these tests, so she gave them to me. About three reels full of them and other animation she did at the time. I haven't been able to find anyone who can figure out how to transfer these old tapes - done at 24fps on that machine - to any other useable format. If you can figure it out, you're welcome to a copy of them.

Damn! More interesting things we need, yet the near-inaccessibility of getting to see it proves to be quite the challenge.

Hopefully the Elstree Studios trip will prove to be fruitful as well!

Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Hopefully a ray of light...

What's DVD-RAM, and does that help?

A friend of mine has a DVD-RAM recorder. I didn't know until about five minutes ago. If I can record directly on to that and get you those discs are you able to use that data/info??

I know they're different to DVD-R and DVD+R, but are they usable or no?
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Hell yeah!


As far as I know, DVD-RAM is the same thing -- it's M2V video, which is what we need. I think the audio is MPEG and there are some weird compatibility issues -- but yeah, that'd be perfect!

Damn great. Let's get to transferring then ...
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I found this thread last night and took about four hours reading it and watching the YouTube clips.

Wow.

I was thinking last year about how someone should take the workprint and combine it with Arabian Knight - but what you're doing here is absolutely insane.

I know it's been said 100 times already, but thanks ocpmovie.

I've been thinking about how I can help the project. Not sure if you guys have access to it, but I have a Proquest account that allows me to search newspapers and magazines dating back to the 1970's.

I came across several articles about "Thief and The Cobbler" that I'm not sure you've seen.

U.S. News & World Report; Jul 25, 1988. (Williams interview):
Click to read

Los Angeles Times; May 20, 1992:
Bond Firm Takes Over `Thief' Animation

"The Thief and the Cobbler," a feature-length film that Oscar-winning animator Richard Williams has been making for more than a quarter-century, has gone over budget, prompting a Los Angeles completion bond firm to take control of the project, The Times has learned.

On Friday, Williams told a staff meeting in London that his company, Richard Williams Animation, would cease operations and lay off about 30 animators plus other personnel.

"He was obviously not very happy about it, but it was out of his hands," said David Brown, one of the film's animators. Brown said he had heard that the film will be finished in Los Angeles by another company.

The move is a blow to Williams, the director of animation for the Academy Award-winning "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." Friends said Williams sacrificed family life and much of his own money attempting to bring "Thief" to the screen.

Warner Bros. had placed "Thief"-a movie with an Arabian Nights setting-on its release schedule, but now the studio must wait to see if it can be delivered in time for Christmas.

"We're discussing with Warner Bros. the best way to finish the film," said Steven Fayne, an attorney for Completion Bond Co. of Century City, which now controls the fate of the production. Fayne said it is possible some of the production will be moved to Los Angeles, but said that negotiations are still under way.

"He (Williams) could do it himself or we could farm out pieces of it (to other animation companies)," Fayne said.

The bond company insures investors that a movie will be completed on time and on budget, and has legal authority to make any decisions-financial and creative-to bring it in as quickly as possible. Completion Bond Co. became involved in "The Thief and the Cobbler" two years ago, but its attorney would not identify the investors.

Williams could not be reached for comment and officials in his London office declined requests for interviews.

"The Thief and the Cobbler" focuses on the efforts of a thief to steal the golden spheres that protect an enchanted city from harm.

Meanwhile, Warner Bros. must be looking over its shoulder at Disney, which is readying its own animated Arabian Nights tale, "Aladdin," for release during the holidays.

Sources in the animation field who are familiar with "The Thief and the Cobbler" say that the completed parts of the film are so technically demanding that to complete Williams' vision would cost millions of dollars and take more than a year of work.

But Fayne doubted that estimate: "I think it will take some time (to finish). However, I can't imagine it will take over a year. But animation is a slow process."

How much work remains is a topic of discussion. So far, about 70 minutes have been completed, according to animator Brown, but roughly 17 minutes more needs to be done and that involves "major character animation."

Fayne could not confirm the 17-minute figure, but said that the completed movie will be 78 to 81 minutes long, the average length of an animated feature.

Neither Fayne nor Warner Bros. would say exactly how much money has been spent on "The Thief and the Cobbler," but Fayne said that $20 million was not an unreasonable estimate.

When he began the feature about 27 years ago, Williams promised a film that would be "more fully animated than any animated movie ever," and artists who saw the footage compared the results to a moving tapestry.

The 15 or so minutes he had completed by the early '80s offered intricate designs and dazzlingly complex movements. In one scene, a character named Zig Zag, an evil vizier, had five fingers and a thumb on each hand, with four knuckles per finger and a ring on each knuckle-details that pose significant challenges to animators.

Although the bond company first had an inkling that the project was in trouble late last year, it didn't seize control of it until Williams had completed filming an "animatic," which combines sketches with a rough soundtrack. Once the bond company could calculate how much work remained, it stepped in.

Throughout the years, Williams' artists worked on the film whenever they had a few free days or hours between commercial jobs. He persuaded some of the finest American animators to come out of retirement to work on the film, including the last animation done by Grim Natwick, the creator of Betty Boop; Art Babbit, who animated the dancing mushroom and thistles in "Fantasia," and two of the top animators of the Warner Bros. shorts: Ken Harris (who animated many of the Road Runner cartoons) and Emery Hawkins. All four artists have died.

The bond company's action marks the second time this year that a film Warner Bros. has agreed to distribute has been embroiled in financial difficulties.

The other much-publicized film is Spike Lee's "Malcolm X," slated for November release. The bond company took over the project earlier this year when Lee's film exceeded its budget by $5 million.

Los Angeles Times; Aug 30, 1995. (Arabian Knight production, quotes from Alex Williams, Jake Eberts, Fred Calvert):
How This 'Thief' Became a 'Knight'

For more than a quarter of a century, Oscar-winning animator Richard Williams labored to bring forth his signature film, one that would rival the best of Disney. And then it was gone.

His epic work-in-progress, originally titled "The Thief and the Cobbler," was seized in 1992 by a completion bond company, which ensured investors that the film would be completed on time and on budget. Last week, Miramax Films released the wide-screen fable, retitled "Arabian Knight."

The $28-million film includes animation, dialogue and music inserted after Williams departed the project.

Williams, the director of animation in the 1988 Academy Award-winning film "Who Framed Roger Rabbit," has steadfastly declined to discuss the events. But his oldest son, who spent two years as an animator on "Arabian Knight," has expressed strong reservations about Miramax's movie.

"I think the film has been substantially altered--and in my view, not for the better," Alexander Williams said in a telephone interview from his London home. "What I saw is nothing like the original."

The film's story line revolves around a humble cobbler and his adventures in ancient Baghdad. One major departure from his father's work, Williams noted, was adding voices to two major characters--the cobbler (Matthew Broderick) and the thief (Jonathan Winters)--when the characters originally were mute.

"They decided, in their wisdom, to have them speaking," Williams said. "But it's very hard to have them speaking when their lips don't move. So you have them speaking in the bits they added, and in the other scenes they didn't animate, they put voices over the top. It looks ridiculous, but that didn't stop them."

But the film's executive producer, Jake Eberts, whose British-based company, Allied Filmmakers, invested $10 million in the project over nine years, said Miramax has done a "fabulous job" taking the film to the big screen.

"It was significantly enhanced and changed by Miramax after Miramax stepped in and acquired the domestic {distribution} rights," Eberts said. "They made extremely good changes."

As for giving the cobbler and thief voices, Eberts said the original way did not work for two reasons.

"There wasn't a strong enough story line in and of itself that you could get the story through the actions and appearance of the cobbler," Eberts said.

"Secondly, the cobbler itself didn't have the kind of design that convey feeling. He didn't have enough characteristics in his face to convey full emotions. He also serves as the narrator."

Eberts, who said he still has great admiration for Richard Williams and his animation skills, nonetheless added that "Arabian Knight" is a classic case of art clashing with commerce.

Williams' problem, Eberts said, was that "he could never finish a scene."

"He loved the thief to death," Eberts said. "He would churn out frame after frame of the thief and not spend time on other points of the movie."

In the end, Eberts said, Williams "felt he should have absolute control over the way cuts were made. That was not possible. Only one or two directors in the world have that kind of power. He wanted final everything. . . . He was playing with over $25 million of other people's money. You have to respect that."

A Canadian, Eberts has invested in many films over the last two decades, including "Dances With Wolves," "Driving Miss Daisy" and "Gandhi." One of his first movies was the animated film "Watership Down."

Eberts said he met Williams, also a Canadian, in 1986 when the animator was receiving an award at a ceremony in London.

"I walked up on stage after he was through {getting an award}, introduced myself and he told me he wanted to show me some footage," Eberts recalled. "The rest, as they say, is history."

Eberts said that he was not only impressed by the size and scope of the film in progress but that he became sold on the project because he believed Williams was an "absolute genius" at animation and that it was the kind of film entire families would attend.

"If I had known then what I know now, I never would have done it," Eberts said. ". . . I would have hired someone else."

When Williams began the feature, he promised a film that would be "more fully animated than any animated movie ever," and artists who saw the footage compared the results to a moving tapestry.

Over the years, the project attracted some of the finest American animators: Grim Natwick, creator of Betty Boop; Art Babbit, who animated the dancing mushroom and thistles in "Fantasia," and two top animators of the Warner Bros. shorts, Ken Harris ("Road Runner") and Emery Hawkins. All four have since died.

Some of the original voices, including actors Vincent Price (Zigzag) and Sir Anthony Quayle, who was to have been King Nod (Clive Revill now is Nod's voice), also died.

Warner Bros. had been set to distribute the movie, but after the bond company took over the project, the studio dropped out. The bond company handed the film to animator Fred Calvert in Los Angeles to complete.

"I really didn't want to do it," Calvert said Tuesday, "but if I didn't do it, it would have been given off to the lowest bidder. I took it as a way to try and preserve something and at least get the thing on the screen and let it be seen."

When he got the project, Calvert said, it was only about 60% completed. "A lot that was left was in storyboard and rough pencil animation. The story wasn't there yet. So, we kind of restructured it."

Calvert said he asked a number of animators who had worked with Williams in London to help him finish the film. "It took us a year and a half to finish it," he said, estimating that 30% of the film was original work developed under his supervision.

Although Calvert said the decision to give the cobbler a voice came while he was supervising the project, it wasn't until he turned it in that he discovered that Miramax was going to give the thief a voice, too.

"I never conceived of putting a voice on the thief," Calvert said. "That was a surprise to me. Whatever is wrong with the film, I'm sure someone will blame me for it."

Miramax, he said, also added music to the production.

As for the story itself, Calvert confirmed that some of the additional dialogue in the film is credited to Bette L. Smith, who at the time was president of Completion Bond Co.

"She revised a few things," Calvert said. (Smith could not be reached for comment.)

Eberts, meanwhile, said he had his last contact with Williams "a couple years ago."

"We exchanged pleasant and polite letters," he said. "I invited him to finish the film. I have no hard feelings. . . . It's a great tragedy for him."

Alexander Williams said he does not think his father is bitter but wishes he had had a chance to complete the movie he set out to make.

"We were getting the film out," the younger Williams said. "They just chose to take it off to the States and finish it there. I think there was 15 minutes left to do. It would have taken about four months more."

Asked to sum up the experience, Williams said: "The idea was to make a film better than Disney in something that was not the Disney style. I was amazed when they took it away."

Williams added that the additional footage he saw made it look like "a different movie. . . . It looks like Saturday morning TV, the stuff I saw."

Even Miramax's marketing effort ran into trouble. Early print ads for the film called it the first wide-screen animated film since "Snow White," later changed to "Sleeping Beauty"--both, of course, classics from Miramax parent Disney.

The film opened poorly over the weekend, taking in only $319,723 on 510 screens.
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Great finds! Many thanks for 'em. The Calvert quotes in the last article are great:

"I never conceived of putting a voice on the thief," Calvert said. "That was a surprise to me. Whatever is wrong with the film, I'm sure someone will blame me for it."




Heh. Right you are.



(Calvert DID put a voice on The Thief in the WIP, sort of, giving him a Gollum like voice which is very odd. In Calvert's final version, Ed E. Carroll wheezes for the Thief, lending another creepy atmosphere to the scenes which I also find odd.)
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I'm studying DVD-RAM now.


DVD-RAM
DVD-RAM has the best recording features but it is not compatible with most DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players. Think more of it as a removable hard disk. DVD-RAM is usually used in some DVD Recorders.

DVD-RAM is more of a removable storage device for computers than a video recording format, although it has become widely used in DVD video recorders because of the flexibility it provides in editing a recording.


It's often recorded in a cartridge, and is often used for DVD-recording camcorders.


As far as I know, it's still M2V video ... so it looks good to me. =) I should be able to rip the video from a DVD-RAM disc.

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Any flicker you saw had to be the pulldown frames.

DVD video on the left, filtered on the right.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4183/compare0100002yz.jpg

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4308/compare0200009lp.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/666/compare0300009ep.jpg

Send those Tissa David reels my way. I can transfer them.
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It would be wonderful if you could transfer the Tissa David stuff --- dear God, that would be amazing. Yes!


It was the pulldown frames as I said.

Can you make the image darker and not so blue? The image is too bright as it is, and you're making it brighter. It looks good in stills, but in practice we're losing highlight detail. I've asked for this several times before.

At any rate, this has taken so long that I'm done with the edit anyway. Not that I couldn't replace it if you came up with something great quickly.









Holger Leihe animated many of the Thief scenes, continuing the legacy of the late Ken Harris. Here he remembers The Thief flying shot ...

I remember referencing old b/w
footage of biplanes doing air acrobatics. One shot was
70 feet long. While I was working on it I was getting
worried that I was generating footage that was
destined to be edited. I remember making a joke about
it and Dick made holy promises not to cut it. Oh
well... but you're bringing it back. Dick also used
this sequence as an example why he was refusing to do
storyboards. While he felt it was hilarious to see the
Thief flying for so long, he would not have been able
to justify this sequence with storyboards. For the
last shot Dick wanted to use the BG strobing idea that
Roy had come up with for the chase sequence, so for
the BG layout I animated a hand closing and then made
lots of xeroxes of these animation drawings that I
pasted down, the spacing lining up with the increments
of the pan and slightly vibrating up and down. The
idea was that the hands are trying to grab him, as he
flies by. In the film you actually miss the effect, I
think, as you are focusing on the Thief. When I was
done I rolled the whole layout out. It reached almost
through the entire studio. Probably the longest BG in
the film.




A while back, Oscar Grillo sent me some beautiful material from the original film, The Amazing Nasruddin. This is the best glimpse I've ever seen into the original film that eventually became The Thief. A must-read, with beautiful artwork. Check it out.


http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_1.jpg

Poster and logo for the film. It appears that a prisoner is being brought before the King of Persia (proto-King Nod). Anwar the Grand Vizier is visible - proto-Zigzag, as are the proto-Goblet, and the other wise men.

If the plot is similar to the final film, the prisoner in chains could be the townsperson who caused Anwar the Grand Vizier to slip on a banana peel ... but perhaps not. My real guess would be that it is Nasruddin, but the colors aren't right. Since the "wise men" are there, this could be the introduction to the "bread scene," where Nasruddin is brought forth for trial as a heretic.

The text shows that Nasruddin's donkey had been named Thunderbolt. His wife, Kerima.

Princess Meemee's original name, here, is Princess Nura.

As we already know, Chief Roofless was Chief Boozdil, and the Mad Holy Old Witch was the Mad Holy Old Indian Witch of Benares, a "kind of fraudulent female Maharishi." The Thief is the "dopey, loveable Thief-who-always-gets-caught," which seems consistent with the "emerald scene" in the final film, and his encounter with Nanny early on ... both of which we know were Nasruddin scenes.

There are references to a terrible magician, "Zappo the Great," and the "roly-poly Grand Vizier of India, so devious he outwits even himself."

http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_2.jpg

A similar scene of The Persian Court can be seen here - except there is no prisoner in chains that I can see, and Nasruddin and his donkey are seen safely outside the palace, on the other side of the wall. Anwar and the King can still be seen in the same places, and the wise men seem to be there too, though in a different position and none of them look like Goblet.

The Mogul of India is not yet in One Eye like "sitting on a throne of women" mode ... He is simply chubby. Clearly when Nasruddin was removed, Williams relished removing references to real countries, so he could make the good guys good and the bad guys bad.

The mogul of India smokes a hookah, as did King Nod in early boards.

Note the upside-down perspective used at top left "In a Persian market." Very cool.

A VERY close look at this and I've spotted The Thief. Lower left of the picture, below Nasruddin's donkey.

The "Magic Garden" is where Nasruddin sees Princess Nura (Meemee) and her beastly lover.

An early Thief is visible in "Nasruddin Arrives." I just noticed that. A similar scene is seen in "The Caravan Departs" ... It looks like Nasruddin is posing as a wealthy nobleman as he sets out to visit either the mogul of India or the King of Persia. My guess? He poses as a nobleman in Persia, gets the call to be ambassador to India, sets out with great fanfare, but after encountering the brigands will arrive in India in tatters again.

We see some men on horses riding through a graveyard. In Clapperboard we also see Nasruddin running through the same graveyard, scared.


http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_3.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_4.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_5.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_6.jpg

"If I'm right side up in this world, I want to be upside-down in the next ..."

http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_7.jpg

Picture at top left suggests that Kenneth Williams, who plays two lackeys in the final film, was the original choice to play the Vincent Price role. Strange. Richard was working with Kenneth a lot at this time - Kenneth narrated "Love Me, Love Me, Love Me," and the unfinished epic "Diary of a Madman," the soundtrack to which was more recently released as a radio play. Judging from his part as the proto-Goblet "wise man" seen in the documentary "The Creative Person" (1966), Kenneth was to have a larger part in Nasruddin, playing several roles. His role was fairly small in the final film.

It's also known that Anthony Quayle was not the original King, so ... who knows.


http://orangecow.org/thief/nasrudin/Nasru_8.jpg

The figure Ken Harris is animating seems to be the sidekick of "General Taboo," seen briefly in the 1972 Clapperboard documentaries.
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I'll show some highlight comparison shots tomorrow.

When you get a chance, send the Umatic tapes over.
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How much of the Nasrudin stuff was animated? It's just a shame that when that stuff was cut, it just disappeared. Had to have been gorgeous animation. I hope that it's still lying around somewhere, waiting to be restored and slapped onto a 3-disc "Thief and the Cobbler" Special Edition set.