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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 32
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So I'm doing what I can to minimize the Folk-ness.
There's almost no way to NOT add music to this film with what I'm doing with it.
It's a judgement call. I have to make a lot of decisions to do what I feel will make the most entertaining film. As a filmmaker, I just have to look at it critically and do what I can.
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Sorry for my frankly shite timing - I'm actually a director, helming my first project and getting more and more tied up in production. I was actually thinking of starting a thread up for people to stay in contact directly since I am not getting the time to keep up to date and on track of the few threads I'd like to help out on - there's so much going on here that I'd like to have done myself or be able to participate in!
I can't exactly remember what I was looking for in relation to The Thief, but I see The Little Island is a possibility. Let me know if you need transfer costs, I could maybe manage to send on $60 if need be.
Re: Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit - I found the tapes. Good news: Animating Art is in good shape, on BetaSP. Lesser good news (but not totally bad): I Drew Roger Rabbit is NOT on BetaSP, but a copy on S-VHS from the original U-Matic source. Still probably better than what you have but no harm in sending it all and you can match up what's best.
Roger Rabbit And The Secrets Of ToonTown - found both of these (the original off-air VHS and my "special edition" with extra Richard Williams speaking about the Benny The Cab sequence). Again, I can send both out if you'd like.
Academy Awards 1989/1990 - found a stash of VHS Oscar tapings, but the earliest they went back was 1992 (frustrating!!). Bear with me as I have another bunch of tapes to go through and am *fairly* confident that we may have this yet.
WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE??
On the supplements: seem you may beat Warners with their 14-disc Superman set this Christmas!
My only problem is...I have no home equipment - it's all pro-stuff at an edit suite at Elstree Studios. Therefore, the only formats I can really play out to easily are VHS (but then losing a generation) and DVCam (note NOT MiniDV. DVCam is the pro-version of that and uses the same size tape but at a faster, non-drop out pitch. DVCam will not automatically play back on home camcorders, but some may surprise).
Burning to DVD has never been needed as an option (it's all usually done out of house), although I have been thinking about a DVD recorder for home. This will probably wait until after the shoot is done, which will be a few months. So...if anyone can handle DVCam and get that coverted, let me know. It'll be PAL of course, and recording the contents to tape will have to be fit in as and when I can, but I'll get it done eventually!
I'm still here, but under various pressures, as I hope you'll understand.
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BH also knows that feeling at the moment I'm sure - might explain why he's so busy. I'll give you his address, as I'm sure he can handle the transfer ... somehow.
Wonderful that you've tracked most of it down ... keep looking for the Oscars and The Little Island. I forget if you had the 1983 pre-Williams Roger Rabbit scenes.
As for beating Warners' 14-disc Superman .... if you count my "optional discs for completionists", I already have. =D
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Something weird -- I noticed that the scene where Zig-Zag and Tack pass each other on the stairs, ("We'll see who wins at the end of the day") is not only horribly mangled by being squished into fullscreen (sigh), but...
I'd thought this was my imagination. It isn't. On the Miramax dvd, Zig-Zag clearly says "I'm taking *the* balls and leaving!", but in the workprint, he clearly says "I'm taking *my* balls and leaving."
Why...was this changed? Was it really worth the trouble? Is the most obvious joke really not the comparison to a "I'm taking my toys and going home!" sort of statement?
Even more interesting, on the Miramax dvd, if you listen closely to the echo while Zig-Zag is speaking, his echo still says "my".
Can anyone shed some light on this weird thing?
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Bastards!
Pt. 6 - One Eyes Win Again! (with new footage) Zigzag plots away, The Thief steals Yumyum's shoe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72pW-ccZP2Q
Part 7 - A dream! A nightmare! A vision of invasion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXNxBlc4nUo
Part 8 - The Thief gets the balls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJ0Olrv_Ik
Pt. 9 - The balls are gone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2voah-CeIc
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It sounds PERFECT for the re-cobbled version, especially the last half.
EDIT: AND THIS TOO: http://www.lhsmusic.com/Orchestra/OrchMedia/SoundFiles/2004-2005/winter%20concert%2004-05%20scheherazade.mp3
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"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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I still don't wanna spam Don Hahn!
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It reads: XFER (transfer) DATE: 10/16/92
AME INC.
CALVERT/COBBLER PROD. INC.
"THE THIEF & THE COBBLER"
Interesting since this version was clearly titled "Princess and the Cobbler." But there's your production title, and date where he was pretty much still starting.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
There's a timestamp on the Calvert Work in Progress.
It reads: XFER (transfer) DATE: 10/16/92
AME INC.
CALVERT/COBBLER PROD. INC.
"THE THIEF & THE COBBLER"
Interesting since this version was clearly titled "Princess and the Cobbler." But there's your production title, and date where he was pretty much still starting.
There's a timestamp on the Calvert Work in Progress.
It reads: XFER (transfer) DATE: 10/16/92
AME INC.
CALVERT/COBBLER PROD. INC.
"THE THIEF & THE COBBLER"
Interesting since this version was clearly titled "Princess and the Cobbler." But there's your production title, and date where he was pretty much still starting.
Interesting.... http://www.geocities.com/eddie_bowers/edsummer.html says that Williams gave Calvert a workprint in September of 1992. The version shown in L.A. was apparently produced in June.
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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Great...thanks for understanding. Pretty cool news for us geeks: we just got Vic Armstrong on board as our stunt advisor and second unti action director. Went up to his place at the weekend and saw his awesome home theater as well as the ORIGINAL Indy hat and whip! Had a good chat about projectors and what I felt was the best out there, as he is looking to get a new one. Surreal, geek paradise!
"BH also knows that feeling at the moment I'm sure - might explain why he's so busy. I'll give you his address, as I'm sure he can handle the transfer ... somehow."
Who's BH, and what's the best way to get stuff to him? I can, over the next couple of weeks, start dubbing the stuff to DVCam, but wanna be sure he can handle it before spending any time that might end up wasted.
"Wonderful that you've tracked most of it down ... keep looking for the Oscars and The Little Island. I forget if you had the 1983 pre-Williams Roger Rabbit scenes."
No pre-1983 RW Roger scenes, but I would dearly, dearly love to see more and have all of that stuff (I'm pretty obsessive about Roger Rabbit. Actually, another project I'm involved in just landed Bob Hoskins for the lead, so I'm heading down to set to get all my Roger stuff signed)! Will try again on Oscars and Little Island at the weekend.
"As for beating Warners' 14-disc Superman .... if you count my "optional discs for completionists", I already have. =D"
I thought we were up to 12/13?? I guess with the new stuff that pushes it past. The Thief is going to easily be the best collector's edition set ever, by the sounds of things!
"I still don't wanna spam Don Hahn!"
Okay...here's the thing. I have Don's phone number and direct email address. I was working on an animated musical at one point (co-wrote 16 song demos and did some artwork) and we proposed taking it to Disney. By chance I met the producer of a movie shot at Elstree who knew Don - she'd given him his first producer gig on Roger Rabbit - and she suggested we take it out to him. So we hopped on a plane and had a fun meeting with Don at WDFA in Burbank. The project ended up (eventually) at the direct-to-video department, where they wanted to water it down and take out half the story to get it to video budgets at the time (1998). We then had an offer from Fox Animation (another Don, this time Bluth, who had the experience with the fairytale format we were drawing on) and we decided to go with them, but then Bartok The Magnificent and Titan AE both crashed and burned and that was the end of Fox Animation!
BUT...I still have Don's WDFA contacts. Not sure how I would approach him, or if he's the right guy to talk to, but thats a possible possibility. I also potentially have links to Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, if we wanted to be more stealth like and just possibly get an idea if this is floating around anywhere right now at the Mouse House.
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By the way, what's the story behind the Majestic Films booklet? It has all the original voice cast listed... didn't the CBC already redub everyone by the time they picked it up?
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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Very, very nice! An honor to work with him.
>> I can, over the next couple of weeks, start dubbing the stuff to DVCam, but wanna be sure he can handle it
I'll PM you about this ... I've asked him.
>> No pre-1983 RW Roger scenes, but I would dearly, dearly love to see more and have all of that stuff (I'm pretty obsessive about Roger Rabbit.
Been trying to dig this stuff up! We'll see. My various contacts for it have fallen through though. But maybe ...
>. Actually, another project I'm involved in just landed Bob Hoskins for the lead, so I'm heading down to set to get all my Roger stuff signed)
Great! Bob Hoskins ... one of the greats.
>> I thought we were up to 12/13??
Technically it's more like 15. =) That's counting 4 discs that aren't really part of the main collection tho'. We've got 11 "must have" discs.
>> I still have Don's WDFA contacts. Not sure how I would approach him, or if he's the right guy to talk to, but thats a possible possibility. I also potentially have links to Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, if we wanted to be more stealth like and just possibly get an idea if this is floating around anywhere right now at the Mouse House.
Very nice! Good story there, always curious about projects which never quite made it.
It would be nice to get some DVDs over to Eric Goldberg and Andreas Deja, I think they'd be interested rather than angered, and might give some info.
Now, Patrick ...
>> Ok, I'm very low on the green being that it's the end of the semester. I just can't practically burn enough DVD-R's for my class by Wednesday.
Aaargh. Not even a couple?
>> By the way, what's the story behind the Majestic Films booklet? It has all the original voice cast listed... didn't the CBC already redub everyone by the time they picked it up?
That's the back of the "Once ..." booklet. Majestic Films was involved even at that early stage ... 1988ish.
Really, it wouldn't be far off to include the Majest Films and even Warner Bros logos at the beginning of the Recobbled Cut. They were involved.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
>>Pretty cool news for us geeks: we just got Vic Armstrong on board as our stunt advisor and second unti action director. Went up to his place at the weekend and saw his awesome home theater as well as the ORIGINAL Indy hat and whip!
Very, very nice! An honor to work with him.
It's becoming a small world after all!
I'd like to help if anyone didn't mind me burning copies on my PC. I would gladly do it if someone offered me some cash for blanks and postage to whomever.
>> By the way, what's the story behind the Majestic Films booklet? It has all the original voice cast listed... didn't the CBC already redub everyone by the time they picked it up?
That's the back of the "Once ..." booklet. Majestic Films was involved even at that early stage ... 1988ish.
Really, it wouldn't be far off to include the Majest Films and even Warner Bros logos at the beginning of the Recobbled Cut. They were involved.
>>Pretty cool news for us geeks: we just got Vic Armstrong on board as our stunt advisor and second unti action director. Went up to his place at the weekend and saw his awesome home theater as well as the ORIGINAL Indy hat and whip!
Very, very nice! An honor to work with him.
It's becoming a small world after all!
>> I can, over the next couple of weeks, start dubbing the stuff to DVCam, but wanna be sure he can handle it
I'll PM you about this ... I've asked him.
>> No pre-1983 RW Roger scenes, but I would dearly, dearly love to see more and have all of that stuff (I'm pretty obsessive about Roger Rabbit.
Been trying to dig this stuff up! We'll see. My various contacts for it have fallen through though. But maybe ...
>. Actually, another project I'm involved in just landed Bob Hoskins for the lead, so I'm heading down to set to get all my Roger stuff signed)
Great! Bob Hoskins ... one of the greats.
>> I thought we were up to 12/13??
Technically it's more like 15. =) That's counting 4 discs that aren't really part of the main collection tho'. We've got 11 "must have" discs.
>> I still have Don's WDFA contacts. Not sure how I would approach him, or if he's the right guy to talk to, but thats a possible possibility. I also potentially have links to Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, if we wanted to be more stealth like and just possibly get an idea if this is floating around anywhere right now at the Mouse House.
Very nice! Good story there, always curious about projects which never quite made it.
It would be nice to get some DVDs over to Eric Goldberg and Andreas Deja, I think they'd be interested rather than angered, and might give some info.
That would be neat to see what they might have to say about it too.
Now, Patrick ...
>> Ok, I'm very low on the green being that it's the end of the semester. I just can't practically burn enough DVD-R's for my class by Wednesday.
Aaargh. Not even a couple?
I'll PM you about this ... I've asked him.
>> No pre-1983 RW Roger scenes, but I would dearly, dearly love to see more and have all of that stuff (I'm pretty obsessive about Roger Rabbit.
Been trying to dig this stuff up! We'll see. My various contacts for it have fallen through though. But maybe ...
>. Actually, another project I'm involved in just landed Bob Hoskins for the lead, so I'm heading down to set to get all my Roger stuff signed)
Great! Bob Hoskins ... one of the greats.
>> I thought we were up to 12/13??
Technically it's more like 15. =) That's counting 4 discs that aren't really part of the main collection tho'. We've got 11 "must have" discs.
>> I still have Don's WDFA contacts. Not sure how I would approach him, or if he's the right guy to talk to, but thats a possible possibility. I also potentially have links to Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, if we wanted to be more stealth like and just possibly get an idea if this is floating around anywhere right now at the Mouse House.
Very nice! Good story there, always curious about projects which never quite made it.
It would be nice to get some DVDs over to Eric Goldberg and Andreas Deja, I think they'd be interested rather than angered, and might give some info.
That would be neat to see what they might have to say about it too.
Now, Patrick ...
>> Ok, I'm very low on the green being that it's the end of the semester. I just can't practically burn enough DVD-R's for my class by Wednesday.
Aaargh. Not even a couple?
I'd like to help if anyone didn't mind me burning copies on my PC. I would gladly do it if someone offered me some cash for blanks and postage to whomever.
>> By the way, what's the story behind the Majestic Films booklet? It has all the original voice cast listed... didn't the CBC already redub everyone by the time they picked it up?
That's the back of the "Once ..." booklet. Majestic Films was involved even at that early stage ... 1988ish.
Really, it wouldn't be far off to include the Majest Films and even Warner Bros logos at the beginning of the Recobbled Cut. They were involved.
Always had the nerve of wanting the opening logo/caption to be "Sobieniak International Ltd. Presents".
(something of a thing I kinda had about one day wanting to release fine cinematic works under such a cheesy title)
Chris Sobieniak
For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Originally posted by: Studio Toledo
It's becoming a small world after all!
It's becoming a small world after all!
How do you mean??
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Originally posted by: Tequila Mockingbird
How do you mean??
Originally posted by: Studio Toledo
It's becoming a small world after all!
It's becoming a small world after all!
How do you mean??
Oh, figure of speech in that we're getting so many names coming here of pros and such!
Chris Sobieniak
For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Do we have someone who has a PAL DVCam camera or deck? (I'm told that's the slightly pro version of MiniDV ... probably the same as NTSC's DVCPro.)
All of Ben's material is going to be transferred to DVcam ... not MiniDV. We need these tapes to then be transferred to PAL DVD, via a DVD recorder or whatever.
Can anyone handle this? Because ** can't, so crap.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Crap. Okay, we got a problem.
Do we have someone who has a PAL DVCam camera or deck? (I'm told that's the slightly pro version of MiniDV ... probably the same as NTSC's DVCPro.)
All of Ben's material is going to be transferred to DVcam ... not MiniDV. We need these tapes to then be transferred to PAL DVD, via a DVD recorder or whatever.
Can anyone handle this? Because ** can't, so crap.
Crap. Okay, we got a problem.
Do we have someone who has a PAL DVCam camera or deck? (I'm told that's the slightly pro version of MiniDV ... probably the same as NTSC's DVCPro.)
All of Ben's material is going to be transferred to DVcam ... not MiniDV. We need these tapes to then be transferred to PAL DVD, via a DVD recorder or whatever.
Can anyone handle this? Because ** can't, so crap.
I wish I could help. I was about to send out some more DVD's worth of my materialt o you, but I wasn't sure if it'll get delivered to you early or not before you leave. Wanted to put off that for a while in case you can locate a new place of address I might get in touch with you at. Also of note is the tape I STILL haven't gotten back from you as well.
Chris Sobieniak
For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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that's not synth. It's the actual score, and won't be replaced, no.
Here's a full playlist for all 9 parts, plus two One Eye clips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2czfar4Zg4&feature=PlayList&p=97C1FA98D07ACC21&index=0&playnext=1
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Coz that is DVCam format and will play my tapes. If anyone in the UK has that at least then they can capture via Firewire into their computers.
Or... REALLY CRAZY IDEA... How much is a 20/30gb hard drive? I could perhaps shift everything onto one drive and send that out? It would be in the Matrox uncompressed AVI format (which DEFINATELY plays in Quicktime and FCP). That's a pretty crazy idea.
---------------
BTW, I checked out that Raggedy Ann And Andy disc - did you guys realize that the WHOLE THING is anamorphically stretched, and lot just the opening shots of the girl? At least the version I have is.
Now, imagine a 2.35:1 movie (which Ann And Andy is), and chop the ends off to roughly 1.78/1.85 - THAT's what is retained in the version I have - it's so clear from anything circular that the image is stretched. It's only at the end that the manual extra squeeze comes in to push it back to the full 2.35 squash, but the rest of the movie is DEFINATELY vertically stretched out and retains much more picture image than a regular pan-and-scan job would do.
I can't work out if it's an LD transfer or not, but the quality is higher than VHS and there doesn't seem to be the "VHS line" that you get at the bottom of the image in overscan. There is ONE tape-like dropout on the CBS/FOX logo at the top of the print, but after that I did not detect any other defects and even red colors were locked in and looked good. Horizontal lines are also strong, so I suspect this is an LD transfer.
I agree with a post above - the stair chase scene is a dead ringer for the same in The Thief...definitely some kind of test (or maybe a time saver, to use already completed animation, albeit uncolored, for the sequence).
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Ha ... if you can capture that way, surely you can compress the material into M2V format (MPEG-2), the DVD format, in which case it's a DVD and no further steps need to be taken!
You could burn it in whatever format onto DVDs 4GB at a time also.
>> BTW, I checked out that Raggedy Ann And Andy disc - did you guys realize that the WHOLE THING is anamorphically stretched, and lot just the opening shots of the girl? At least the version I have is.
In my version, which is from VHS, it is SLIGHTLY stretched anamorphically, but not much. Not much at all.
Chris Boniface has done a lovely restoration from my disc which stretches the image out again ... I haven't received his final version in the mail yet though. I have an early attempt.
I really want to see your version here ... I'm sure it's better than mine, which suffered from compression issues.
>> I agree with a post above - the stair chase scene is a dead ringer for the same in The Thief...definitely some kind of test
Yep. The Raggedy Ann sequence was based on a Little Nemo comic. Williams liked it so much he put a similar but better sequence into The Thief.
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BTW, I found the VHS to be roughly 1.66:1 when de-warped, but it's clearly cropped on the top and bottom, too... just like The Princess and the Cobbler.
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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Where were you in '77?