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The guy on the left of the first crowd shot rather reminds me of Omar Shah, but I'm sure that's just me being crazy.
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"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 29
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
The guy on the left of the first crowd shot rather reminds me of Omar Shah, but I'm sure that's just me being crazy.
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http://rapidshare.de/files/18282008/A_Creative_Man.mov.html
Meet a young Richard Williams as he is beginning work on the Nasruddin film, doing commercials and title sequences.
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"General Taboo."
"Anwar, the evil Grand Vizier of Persia, and his vulture Brutay."
"Chief Boozdil and the brigands."
The ending.
From 1972 ...
From the final film.
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By the way, in order for my film professor to get an idea of what The Thief and the Cobbler is before reading my term paper, I let him borrow my 3rd gen workprint DVD-R, the recobbled rough cut, and Arabian Knight. I can't wait to get his reaction from the recobbled cut and then Arabian Knight. How much do you want to bet he'll turn off the last one within 10 minutes? I'm word-of-mouthing the hell out of this film...
My paper is going to be pretty awesome, I think. I'm drawing parallels to the main silent comedians, as well as relating to modes of production and other silent films. I even got permission to include images as reference figures, so I can put photos of Harry Langdon and Tack side-by-side. I gave a rough draft to him, so I'm waiting for input on what I should/shouldn't do for the final paper. I also want to include a short part comparing the mangling to The Magnificent Ambersons and Greed.
Best of all, I'll be citing your interviews with Alex Williams and Roy Naisbitt. I'll be sure to post a link to it here. It'll be a great reference on the silent influences... I really think it'll enhance the appreciation of the film. I know spotting all the silent comedy homages made it more fun for me.
One thing that bothers me is that the workprint apparently got a bad reaction from people... well, it's weird how it's so loved now. It seems to get a lukewarm reaction to a lot of animation people (not a lot of reaction to the threads on the animation message boards), yet the people that aren't really specifically animation fans love it. Maybe I'm overgeneralizing...
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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http://rapidshare.de/files/18285366/Clapperboard_1.mov.html
1972 - Dick Williams shows us the making of the Nasrudin film. We watch Dick, Ken Harris and Roy Naisbitt work ...
The sound on this was terrible - I've done my best to make it easier to understand ... even if it now sounds kind of electronic.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Here is Clapperboard, part 1!
http://rapidshare.de/files/18285366/Clapperboard_1.mov.html
1972 - Dick Williams shows us the making of the Nasrudin film. We watch Dick, Ken Harris and Roy Naisbitt work ...
The sound on this was terrible - I've done my best to make it easier to understand ... even if it now sounds kind of electronic.
Here is Clapperboard, part 1!
http://rapidshare.de/files/18285366/Clapperboard_1.mov.html
1972 - Dick Williams shows us the making of the Nasrudin film. We watch Dick, Ken Harris and Roy Naisbitt work ...
The sound on this was terrible - I've done my best to make it easier to understand ... even if it now sounds kind of electronic.
That's OK with me! While noticing Granada produced the Clapperboard films, the other one, "A Creative Man" looks to have been shown on the old "NET" (National Educational Television). This was the predessesor to what we know today as PBS.
Chris Sobieniak
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The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.
So, the wide shot of the castle gate after Tack is captured should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut. The shot of the gate after the fade-to-black on Zig-Zag's face (after "go with princess yum-yum") should also be a fade from black. There should be dissolves between the slow-motion wounded soldier, the blood spurts, and then King Nod. The shot of Tack forming Yum-Yum's face in the string should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut.
Just a few examples.
Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage? The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later. It's just as important as cutting to storyboards to hide Tack's voice in some parts.
I'll be sending you a ton of music, but here's a piece you might find suitable to use as a theme for the thief:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/04AllegroPesante.mp3 (from Vaughan Williams' 9th symphony)
You might want to do a remix to just get the really good parts.
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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I know what those editor's marks mean ... =) I've had to cut film myself at times.
I've chosen to ignore them - I rather prefer having hard cuts, when the material available is limited. I probably should follow them, but I do my own thing.
EDIT: Bowing to peer pressure ... =) I've added a fade into "Open for the Royal Polo Ponies."
>> Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage?
Nope.
<< The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later.
Yep.
I'm working on the final cut. The processing that's being done to the workprint material is causing it to render at excruciatingly slow speed this time round. This is gonna take a while.
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Oh, I did some reading on how to interpret editor's marks...
The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.
That's true. I read all about this in "The Filmmaker's Handbook" years ago.
That would be neat to see the use of fades and dissolves in parts that were indicated in the workprint.
I'll be sending you a ton of music, but here's a piece you might find suitable to use as a theme for the thief:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/04AllegroPesante.mp3 (from Vaughan Williams' 9th symphony)
You might want to do a remix to just get the really good parts.
Oh, I did some reading on how to interpret editor's marks...
The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.
That's true. I read all about this in "The Filmmaker's Handbook" years ago.
So, the wide shot of the castle gate after Tack is captured should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut. The shot of the gate after the fade-to-black on Zig-Zag's face (after "go with princess yum-yum") should also be a fade from black. There should be dissolves between the slow-motion wounded soldier, the blood spurts, and then King Nod. The shot of Tack forming Yum-Yum's face in the string should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut.
Just a few examples.
Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage? The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later. It's just as important as cutting to storyboards to hide Tack's voice in some parts.
Just a few examples.
Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage? The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later. It's just as important as cutting to storyboards to hide Tack's voice in some parts.
That would be neat to see the use of fades and dissolves in parts that were indicated in the workprint.
I'll be sending you a ton of music, but here's a piece you might find suitable to use as a theme for the thief:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/04AllegroPesante.mp3 (from Vaughan Williams' 9th symphony)
You might want to do a remix to just get the really good parts.
Listening to it right now. I can see where this might come in handy!
Chris Sobieniak
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
>>The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.
I know what those editor's marks mean ... =) I've had to cut film myself at times.
I've chosen to ignore them - I rather prefer having hard cuts, when the material available is limited. I probably should follow them, but I do my own thing.
EDIT: Bowing to peer pressure ... =) I've added a fade into "Open for the Royal Polo Ponies."
That's the only point where I felt a fade was sufficient. The rest is OK as you have it.
>> Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage?
Nope.
<< The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later.
Yep.
I'm working on the final cut. The processing that's being done to the workprint material is causing it to render at excruciatingly slow speed this time round. This is gonna take a while.
>>The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.
I know what those editor's marks mean ... =) I've had to cut film myself at times.
I've chosen to ignore them - I rather prefer having hard cuts, when the material available is limited. I probably should follow them, but I do my own thing.
EDIT: Bowing to peer pressure ... =) I've added a fade into "Open for the Royal Polo Ponies."
That's the only point where I felt a fade was sufficient. The rest is OK as you have it.
>> Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage?
Nope.
<< The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later.
Yep.
I'm working on the final cut. The processing that's being done to the workprint material is causing it to render at excruciatingly slow speed this time round. This is gonna take a while.
Take your time! We're rooting for you!
Chris Sobieniak
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I haven't written him back yet ... but he did some nice work on Raggedy Ann.
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By the way, I went through the workprint to calculate how much usable finished footage is in the film. It's roughly 60 minutes of fully completed animation (I subtracted shots with full animation but are only tests like the bad line-up shot during the thief's flight or the 360 degree turnaround on the wire). However, if a restoration happened, there's really no reason to not use the finished shot of the thief coming into Yum-Yum's bathroom, the end title, the flyover (granted it's uncut on its negative) or some other shots (like Zig-Zag tripping over Tack and Tack's close-up early in the film) since they're in ones and feature no continuity/drafting flaws. Combined with the springs scene and the extra footage of the Thief trying to steal the jewel in the glass, I'd estimate that at least 70 minutes of finished material can be used. There's probably 10 minutes of stuff that never made it past the storyboards or pencil tests, then another 10 minutes of stuff animated from the storyboards or pencil animation that's unusuable due to continuity errors (Zig-Zag's eyes) or just being crappy animation (TAAAAAAACK!) No idea why Disney keeps hesitating since they basically just need Williams to do about 20-25 minutes of work.
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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I'm not fond of The Thief coming into Yumyum's bathroom because she should have soap on her back and there should be a mirror there ... but oh well.
I've heard from many sources that all the good material in the Calvert version, the stuff that looks like Dick's work, like the ending shot, was done by a team of real Thief animators in London, who were fired pretty quickly. Many of the key Thief animators were among them, still trying to bang out quality material for Calvert. Dick was not involved at this point of course.
Editing.
What a difference this better quality workprint makes. I can finally do "match dissolves" from the DVD to the workprint and have it look good .... I did this in my Return of the Jedi edit to good effect, and I'm doing it here.
It reminds me how much material I actually cut out because it was low quality pencil tests that you couldn't see. Much of that material is being reinstated. Although, again because of a dissolve, I'm still doing something else with Tack's introduction. I've prepared a version of the first Tack shot which puts the pencil test material on a background. It has a more magical feel to it. I'm currently using it as the second Tack shot.
I've started from scratch but I should be able to bang out part 1 in good time as that's the easier of the two. I'm amazed how good the new workprint looks, particularly the pencil tests.
I can see that in the bath scene, Yumyum and Meemee are drawn more like the early "Persian Miniature" designs ... kind of halfway to where Yumyum is in the final film. A pencil shot I originally cut out of Yumyum handing her shoe to Tack shows a roughed-in Tack, and less good Yumyum animation.
I'm going to do some new effects (and opening titles) for this cut ... I still don't know what to do with the introduction of Yumyum. It's clear that SOMETHING needs to be there, but what's in the workprint is just a concept, and is very poor. If it was finished animation it would be great. I think I need to create something here myself which approximates the storyboards.
EDIT: It would be nice to do this for the Hands of Fate as well, but that would require actual animation. Oh well.
Besides the material not being there on the DVD, another reason why I'm kind of ignoring the workprint's notes to fade in and out is because I'm aware that this cut needs to be faster and punchier than the workprint. A workprint by nature is a work in progress and has a pretty slow pace. Out of desire to do this version justice, and since I'm not Richard Williams, I'm not really cutting anything out, even though a few things probably should be ... anything I cut out would be very minor. But to give the appearance that this is a faster, more finished, more entertaining cut, I have to add music, sound effects, things that make it feel faster ... and cut out, say, the black screen between scenes which fade in and out. And the actual fade ins and outs if they don't feel necessary.
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My hands are slightly tied here as far as cutting things. I'm trying to remain pretty true to the workprint, since I'm not Richard Wiliams and not allowed to make these decisions ...
Still ... gimme some "forinstance"s.
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"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
You're talking about the Recobbled Rough Cut here?
My hands are slightly tied here as far as cutting things. I'm trying to remain pretty true to the workprint, since I'm not Richard Wiliams and not allowed to make these decisions ...
Still ... gimme some "forinstance"s.
You're talking about the Recobbled Rough Cut here?
My hands are slightly tied here as far as cutting things. I'm trying to remain pretty true to the workprint, since I'm not Richard Wiliams and not allowed to make these decisions ...
Still ... gimme some "forinstance"s.
Off the top of my head, I think there's a shot in the polo match where they cut back to the King for a couple seconds, and it just killed the humor of the Thief getting his ass kicked. Like you yourself noted, the workprint is a rough cut. Although I fully understand how delicate this whole operation is. One false move, and Williams gets really, realy sad.
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The Thief is stealing a sleeping Yumyum's shoes ...
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Yeah, the first two shots of Tack don't really have to be in some order since he goes back to sleep both times. I actually like the "thumb hit" take as the first shot of him (apparently Fred Calvert did, too).
Yeah, the first two shots of Tack don't really have to be in some order since he goes back to sleep both times. I actually like the "thumb hit" take as the first shot of him (apparently Fred Calvert did, too).
The thumb hit was a perfect way to set up his first few seconds on the screen, and I also that big of him threading the needle in his sleep (is that what he does?) if that can be set up to come in second when the Thief shows up.
Chris Sobieniak
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I picked up Richard Williams' "The Animator's Survival Kit" yesterday. It has a 3 or 4 page sequence of the witch running. Pretty damn cool.
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I'll go ahead and write you.
Note that the Animator's Survival Kit version of The Witch running is redrawn with a different design - to avoid copyright troubles! Preston Blair did the same thing with Mickey Mouse in his animation books, turned him into an elf or something.
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The problem is that I need a way to encode these onto DVD? What do you use? I have Sonic MyDVD and Pinnacle Studio 9, but they want $$$ before I can use the features. I'm just going to go ahead and download something, but I want some suggestions.
Now, the Recobbled Cut is going to just be a dupe of the rough cut you sent me. I need to send someone two other films (he helped me get the 3rd gen workprint right before you started on this), as well as get the disc ready for your stuff (the clips, the silent shorts, etc).
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"
- from The Bank Dick
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