Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I actually believe that Flight 93 was shot down by the US airforce in order to stop it reaching it's target. .
Do you have any proof?
Also if they did shoot it down, how is it that no one saw the plane being fired upon?
Jag, what are you trying to do? these two posts are in direct contrast to each other. Is this some kind of joke? Are you doing this for your own amusement? To make fools of us? I'm not laughing. We are tring to have a serious discussion here. So unless you actually change your way of thinging on the subject, don't post the way you just did. And if you don't want to have a serious discussion on this issue (or any other issue), go post somewhere else. OK? This sort of posting makes my troll detector go off.
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Um, ok sure. Btw, what's trolling? I think I get the idea but what is it EXACTLY?
I actually believe that Flight 93 was shot down by the US airforce in order to stop it reaching it's target. .
Do you have any proof?
Also if they did shoot it down, how is it that no one saw the plane being fired upon?
Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Regarding this example, it made me think for a while. It's hard to say how justifiable it would be, as they were clearly fighting to save their own lifes. I belive that, on this case, the whole action was beyond the violence/non-violence issue. Imagine that the pilots were unconscious, wouldn't the passengers do something as well? Regardless of what is imposing the threat, they did the one action they had in mind, stopping the plane from crashing.
What difference does it make wheither they were trying to save their own lives? The point is, the only chance they had to save their lives, the lives of people on ground in the target area, even the lives of the terrorists was to use violence against the terrorists. And Ric, I think the terrorist had already made up their minds before boarding the planes, negotiating with them was out of the question.
Ric, you keep talking about what to do to prevent the Hitlers from coming to power? My question what do you do when he has already come to power and has taken France, Poland, and is trying to take Russia and Britain? You talk about what do to prevent the bullets from flying, but what do you do when they are already flying at you?
Tell me, how did using violence against Hitler create Sadam? Name one evil dictator that was created as a direct result of our using violence against Hitler, and would not have been created and could not have been had violence not been used on Hitler? You can't really think the world would be a better place place if we had just let Hitler take over the world, can you?
You still havent answered this question:
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Yes it is ok to kill when your life is threatened, directly or indirectly.
Yes it is ok to kill to withhold the rights of all humans beings, ie. freedom
[
Regarding this example, it made me think for a while. It's hard to say how justifiable it would be, as they were clearly fighting to save their own lifes. I belive that, on this case, the whole action was beyond the violence/non-violence issue. Imagine that the pilots were unconscious, wouldn't the passengers do something as well? Regardless of what is imposing the threat, they did the one action they had in mind, stopping the plane from crashing.
What difference does it make wheither they were trying to save their own lives? The point is, the only chance they had to save their lives, the lives of people on ground in the target area, even the lives of the terrorists was to use violence against the terrorists. And Ric, I think the terrorist had already made up their minds before boarding the planes, negotiating with them was out of the question.
Ric, you keep talking about what to do to prevent the Hitlers from coming to power? My question what do you do when he has already come to power and has taken France, Poland, and is trying to take Russia and Britain? You talk about what do to prevent the bullets from flying, but what do you do when they are already flying at you?
Tell me, how did using violence against Hitler create Sadam? Name one evil dictator that was created as a direct result of our using violence against Hitler, and would not have been created and could not have been had violence not been used on Hitler? You can't really think the world would be a better place place if we had just let Hitler take over the world, can you?
You still havent answered this question:
Originally posted by: Warbler
Tell me Ric, would you be for getting rid of our police forces? When criminal resist, the police resort to violence to stop them. Would you be against that? Do want choas and anarchy to rein supreme? Do you want laws against murder, assult, rape, and theft inforced?
Now, on the Jagdlieter:
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Killing someone in self-defense isn't moral by my standards. Killing *anyone* for whatever reason isn't moral--ever.
Tell me Ric, would you be for getting rid of our police forces? When criminal resist, the police resort to violence to stop them. Would you be against that? Do want choas and anarchy to rein supreme? Do you want laws against murder, assult, rape, and theft inforced?
Now, on the Jagdlieter:
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Killing someone in self-defense isn't moral by my standards. Killing *anyone* for whatever reason isn't moral--ever.
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Jag, what are you trying to do? these two posts are in direct contrast to each other. Is this some kind of joke? Are you doing this for your own amusement? To make fools of us? I'm not laughing. We are tring to have a serious discussion here. So unless you actually change your way of thinging on the subject, don't post the way you just did. And if you don't want to have a serious discussion on this issue (or any other issue), go post somewhere else. OK? This sort of posting makes my troll detector go off.
Originally posted by: Jagdlieter
Um, ok sure. Btw, what's trolling? I think I get the idea but what is it EXACTLY?
don't insult our intelligence, I'm sure you know what trolling is. This is meant to accuse of you of trolling in the past or present, but I have my eye on you . . . .