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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 25

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Craig--

As stated a few posts above:
Folks wanting more info can email me at tygerbug (at) yahoo.com.


OCP--

Don't lose that box. So did your head explode a bit when he said he'd loan it to you? Congrats on that, btw. So right now, the only thing you really don't have much of is stuff pertaining to the lost 'Thief on Springs' scene.

Also, have you gotten the restored workprint and Miramax cut yet? I would imagine that you've at least gotten some test screens (you mentioned that you asked him to redo some of it, as it looked "blobby"). Could you post anything that he's sent you? I'm curious to see how all of that has come out.
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An ... entire...huge... box.

Let...Elly see...

You know... I remember the first time I read an article about The Thief and its unhappy fate, and the first time I went poking about online looking for information about it...everything I encountered led me to believe that there was really nothing left to be found from the early days of the film. I've got to say... it's really kind of beautiful, the kind of gorgeous stories and artwork that are kind of emerging from their hiding places now... a dorky observation, perhaps, but no less true.
Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
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If it's 3/4 U-matic, I have the machine to transfer it right here.
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An article by Alex about TTATC, and it's destruction:
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue1.12/articles/williams1.12.html

Something interesting from the article:
...John Leatherbarrow's superb camerawork has been made to appear unremarkable, the once subtle colors now vulgar and garish.


So the color balance was adjusted in the Miramax version, or is just the new animation that is fucked up? Garrett, did Alex or anybody else mention this to you? This might be a necessary adjustment in the Recobbled final cut.
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Well, since Richard Williams had no part in the color timing, it's probably not accurate on any prints or video masters.

Unless it's a byproduct of the transfer, the colors vary from shot to shot. One shot may have a very blue Zig-Zag, another will have him reddish. Some on the verge of dull pink.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Hmm...well Garrett now has models with color standards, if I remember correctly.
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I've done 123 scans so far. I'm about 1/50th of my way through the box.



I have to scan each image about 3 or 4 times, because they're so big my scanner can't handle it.



I recall Alex saying the colors were garish. Anyone who has the Miramax pan & scan DVD can see that the colors are indeed garish in that version.

However, the workprint we have now looks a lot like the widescreen Japanese DVD, the colors are similarly bright.

I liked how the colors looked when I took them down a notch in some early tests, but I soon abandoned that idea because it would affect the picture quality.


It is what it is.


I should add that Alex liked the look of the Recobbled Rough Cut, so ...










All right, can't leave you in total suspense. Here's a taster. Xeroxed model sheets made from drawings all by Dick Williams.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/zigzagsm.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/zigzagmodelsheetsm.jpg

Big:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/zigzagmodelsheet.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/tntackmodelsheet.jpg

Big:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/tackmodelsheet.jpg
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Here's some evidence that the "Eating Tack in Jail" subplot was partly animated!

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/phidoinjailsm.jpg


I'm holding a cel marked "Nasrudin." It's of The Thief, sneaking outside the place where he'll find the emerald.
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Again, out of curiosity, do you have any screenshots of the restored workprint?

And I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the fruit of your labors. I have a hunch at least one thing in that box will really surprise you, or just make you happy as all get out. Especially the early stuff.
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Was gonna reply to that. =)

No, no screenshots of the restored workprint yet. Chris is sending it on monday. He did send some screens of the restored Arabian Knight which look promising. I won't post those because I want to wait til I actually see what he's done for these transfers, so I know what I'm talking about!


As far as this collection goes ... it's an embarrassment of riches. This whole project is, at this point. I mean, it's gonna overwhelm anyone. I like that idea that we're collecting so much stuff that most people will never get to the end of it ... just be able to keep looking at it when they want.



I like the color promo brochures quite a bit. I'll just say that I've been waiting six years to see a logo for "Once ..." and it was worth every day of that wait to actually see it. You'll see.....
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http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/leafandthecobblersm.jpg



Click here for pictures of the crew jacket courtesy of Andreas Wessel-Therhorn and Beth Hannan, and more articles about Dick from back in the day including pics from some lesser known cartoons, courtesy of John Loter.

http://orangecow.org/thief/stillmorethief/
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Have you been a good little girl this Christmas? Tell Santa what you'd like!


http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumonlapsm.jpg
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http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/oneeyepartysm.jpg


One Eyes know how to throw a PARTY! (Art: Sahin Ersoz)
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Old witch laughs girlishly, in a scene that didn't make it to the final cut. Note the longer hair (which might just be for effect) and rear end.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/oldwitchlaughssm.jpg

Big:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/oldwitchlaughs.jpg





This one goes out to Patrick.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/zigzaggrinsm.jpg

big:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/zigzaggrin.jpg


http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumheadrollsm.jpg


And I KNOW when you look at that pic you're all craning your necks the same way. Yep.


http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/dancingbrigands1sm.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/dancingbrigandssm2.jpg

So, turns out that for about two seconds Dick considered having the Brigands do a dance number. He had Andreas do these concept sketches.

Between this and suggesting that Yumyum sing at the beginning in the script, it seems that Dick had come up with something similar to two of Calvert's song numbers himself, before Calvert. =) Weirdsville.


http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumfromoncesm.jpg

This early Yumyum from "Once ...", circa 1988 or 1989 or so, is the one seen on the "Once" poster. She is more demure and wears more clothing than the sexy Yumyum we know and love. Underneath the clothes though this is mostly Yumyum as we know her.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/princesm.jpg

This background character is possibly another version of the Ogre prince, unenchanted.
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Bubba.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/princebubbasm.jpg

This is the only shot of the Ogre prince I've ever seen animated ... and I've seen this same shot about ten times now in ten different places. So I'm guessing it was the only one animated ... or nearly so. Andreas said that very little of Meemee and Bubba was ever done.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumconcept1sm.jpg

This test for Yumyum was successful in removing her clothing and increasing her breasts four cup sizes. Her face is also becoming more beautified, although still quite nicely Indian or Middle Eastern looking here.

Dick liked the Yumyum seen in the 1988/9 Once... poster (where new designs for Tack and Phido were also tried out, which also made it into the final film), who had heart shaped jewelry.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/roseofthelandsm.jpg

"Rose of the land ..."

She's gained a veil and her stomach is now impossibly thin - she has no ribs.

This test shot was used in the final film, becoming the Yumyum we know and love today.
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http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/earlytacksm.jpg

Early Tack. Possibly from around the time of "Once ..." Possibly by Therhorn ... an attempt at modernizing the old Art Babbit Tack.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/therhornyumyumsm.jpg

Yumyum idea by Andreas Wessel-Therhorn I believe. What I like: more ethnic features, a slight belly, holding the two flowers, and the three golden balls on her forehead. Don't think this design was really in the running.



I've done 367 scans and I still haven't touched the Ken Harris or Art Babbit scenes yet ... or hit anywhere near close to bottom. It's 4:31 am.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Have you been a good little girl this Christmas? Tell Santa what you'd like!


http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumonlapsm.jpg


Or:

Look, No Hands.

War does not make one great.

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http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/earlytack2sm.jpg

Another early Tack, in his "looks like the Hawaiian Punch Guy" days. Not an angular Babbit Tack though.

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/tackprogressionsm.jpg

From cobbler to action hero in six easy steps! Step 4 is missing. The change seems much subtler in the finished film - then again, Williams didn't get to animate Tack in the ending, so who knows what that would have been like. Clearly Tack was coming together now.

Big:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/tackprogression.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumfromonce2sm.jpg

More Yumyum from Once ... 88/89ish. Without her extra clothes we can see she's not far from Yumyum as we know her, minus all the hearts and curves ....

Bonus unpainted cel:

http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/dyingsoldiersm.jpg
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Hmm...Yum Yum kinda puts Jasmine to shame, doesn't she? Big rack, little waist. I do like the more realistic depictions, but the one with the slight belly, though realistic, looks a little...weird. It's far more realistic, but I think that once it was animated, it would be a little disconcerting looking. It's kind of a shame that he simplified her looks as much as he did, but it's still an interesting looking character. And while I haven't seen the film, it's interesting to see how sexualized the film is, as evidenced by the sketch of Yum Yum sitting on Nod's lap with her boobs in his face. That ain't an accident.

And think about it...her name is Yum Yum.

Also, unless you start finding a lot more modern sketches of the Cobbler in his more masculine form, I'm inclined to think that Williams decided that he didn't want the Cobbler to change by such a degree, as the audience might have stopped empathizing with him. He's interesting as an innocent looking, rounded character. But the skinny angular looking version is just...meh.

Looking forward to seeing all of this stuff. Should I expect to suddenly see my gmail account completely filled up a couple weeks from now, with about 4000 attachments?

Edit: And I think that sheet of Witch models has scarred me for life.
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Zig-Zag grinning is hilarious. No wonder Williams saved a lot of his shots for himself - every expression is great. It would be neat if you had a sheet with his expression for the end of "Shall we take his head away?" So delightfully sinister.

(I drew a quick sketch of that frame from the film - it's pretty bad, but I think I might attempt to draw some more again since the model sheets are bigger.)
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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hello again. in anticipation for the recobbled cut i am attempting to download the workprint from myspleen. unfortunately, there are few seeds and the pace is extremely slow. i apologize for my impatience, but is there anyway someone can help seed this file or potential send it through other means? Thank you all.
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I really like that last one of Yum Yum. There's a really nice flow going through the curves and overall look of the art. Very nice stuff.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Click here for pictures of the crew jacket courtesy of Andreas Wessel-Therhorn and Beth Hannan, and more articles about Dick from back in the day including pics from some lesser known cartoons, courtesy of John Loter.

http://orangecow.org/thief/stillmorethief/

I think someone auctioned this off on eBay sometime last year.

Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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JustBanter - the workprint on myspleen is of poor quality. Although Chris loaded up that particular torrent with a lot of other stuff that is of much more interest.

The good workprint from Emule needs to be torrented somewhere.



>> it's interesting to see how sexualized the film is, as evidenced by the sketch of Yum Yum sitting on Nod's lap with her boobs in his face.

That shot isn't in the film - that's why I posted it. Very strange pose.

I like the final Yumyum, but then I like sexy princesses. The early designs are neat, but would be way too tame and Disney. Wouldn't really fit in this film. Think about it - at the time of "Once" she might as well be your Standard Disney Princess. Belle comes close.

The abstract sexuality of the final model actually fits the abstract design of the film, in a weird way. Her curves are bizarre but artful, and fit the bizarre but artful curves elsewhere. The face is expressive and appealing.


But yeah, that pose isn't in there. The movie is more like this (my traced art):
http://orangecow.org/thief/yumyumnodscancolorsoftweb.jpg

Than this:
http://orangecow.org/thief/thieffromtherhorn/yumyumonlapsm.jpg

>> Also, unless you start finding a lot more modern sketches of the Cobbler in his more masculine form, I'm inclined to think that Williams decided that he didn't want the Cobbler to change by such a degree, as the audience might have stopped empathizing with him. He's interesting as an innocent looking, rounded character. But the skinny angular looking version is just...meh.

I think they decided to make the change less obvious, yeah, especially in the face. But it's still evident in any storyboard in the workprint. Because Williams never animated anything of Tack in the entire end sequence, it's really hard to tell. Calvert's team didn't quite understand the changing Tack ... or anything else. Although you can still see it in your work.

>>Looking forward to seeing all of this stuff. Should I expect to suddenly see my gmail account completely filled up a couple weeks from now, with about 4000 attachments?

I'm a link man.




Upon watching the first scene with King Nod again, it looks to me like the test shot of Tack walking (seen in the Warner trailer) was used, for the most part, as Zigzag says "This lowborn cobbler of no worth attacked me in the square today" .... I think the first shot of Tack being shuffled into the throne room is also from that test shot. I'll have to check when I have a proper copy of the Warner trailer I suppose.
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What's interesting is that Yum-Yum is really beautiful and sexy - but she's calling the shots a lot. Compare to Aladdin where Jasimine is pretty naive and shallow.

This is why the idiotic "feminazi" slant added by Calvert's team was pointless. Yum-Yum is already quite a leader and outside of the normal conventions of princesses in films. She saves Tack, goes on the journey to the Witch, and calls on the brigands.

Come to think of it, "Thief" breaks a lot of rules in terms of characters. Whenever the egos of Zig-Zag and Mighty One-Eye are going over the top the film basically mocks them. Phido just rolls his eyes at Zig-Zag when he's attention whoring to him. Mighty One-Eye has the long drawn-out speech while the one survivor is getting away. King Nod acts a little senile, but it's hinted that he was probably once a great fighter (the original dream scene with him punching the air).

Tack is sort of a reluctant hero, but he's always doing what's good for everyone else. Peaceful and calm, too - this is why I'm glad the fight was cut out between Zig-Zag stepping on a tack and him being carried off (it's in the script only). As Yum-Yum says, he's resourceful. He immediately goes to work breaking out of his cell, immediately ties up Roofless's shoes, and goes on a chase just for a shoe.

The thief? He's the best example of obsession in the film. It doesn't matter how many times he has to attempt to do so, he'll get the gold or jewels. Seems like a lot like how Richard Williams would allow things to be re-done over and over again until it was right. Yeah, it's impractical, but that's obsession.


Also, I went through The Princess and the Cobbler and that WIP again... all the vocal stuff they added for Zig-Zag is laughably bad. They recycled his laugh from the card shot twice in a row at one place. The one line of dialogue added ("What, cobbler?") is a horrible impression of Vincent Price. At times, I hated how squeaky Yum-Yum's voice was (Bobbi Page redubbed all of her for the Princess cut, right?) while Hilary Pritchard's voice was more intelligent. For those familiar with MST3K, the narration and new audio dubs are as bad as the narration for The Creeping Terror. Yes, we need to know that Tack is cobbling in his sleep since it's not obvious enough while we're looking at him...
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick