Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Welll, I suppose it depends on your definition of violence. I wouldn't call two puppies playfully wrestling on the ground to be violence, even if they get mildly hurt in the process. To put a Hitler in a full-nelson would, most likely, not injure him at all, but just keep him from moving. But if one Hitler's staring down even 100 Gandhis, it would be very easy to be able to incapacitate him, even if he was carrying a gun.
again that calls for an act of violence. Ric, you are the Gandhi expert, would Gandhi be against using a full-nelson to take down Hitler?
without resorting to violence? I doubt it. You may achieve peace, but not freedom.
Originally posted by: ricarleite<brIf we can't, if what you guys are saying is right, and if there isn't any hopes, well, give me that gun, I'll be the first to blow my brains out.
Welll, I suppose it depends on your definition of violence. I wouldn't call two puppies playfully wrestling on the ground to be violence, even if they get mildly hurt in the process. To put a Hitler in a full-nelson would, most likely, not injure him at all, but just keep him from moving. But if one Hitler's staring down even 100 Gandhis, it would be very easy to be able to incapacitate him, even if he was carrying a gun.
again that calls for an act of violence. Ric, you are the Gandhi expert, would Gandhi be against using a full-nelson to take down Hitler?
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Hehe, I must admit this hypothetical situation is starting to sound rather silly, like one of those geek conversations about pitting two unrelated superheroes or supervillains together to see who'd win in a fight.
see my answer to Ric on this below.
If a man is not free, can he really be at peace? Ric, we are never going to agree on this because I have been brought up in a nation where freedom, justice, and peace are worth fighting for, dying for, and yes even killing for.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
I am still alive because I belive we can acomplish what I wish for, a peaceful and free world.
Hehe, I must admit this hypothetical situation is starting to sound rather silly, like one of those geek conversations about pitting two unrelated superheroes or supervillains together to see who'd win in a fight.
see my answer to Ric on this below.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
But to get it a bit more serious, how about the Civil Rights movement? Sure, there was a lot of violence involved on both sides, but some of the most famous examples and imagery in the movement were peaceful protests and marches led by people like Martin Luther King against violent police forces, yet the Civil Rights Movement was regarded as successfuly eventually. Their peaceful methods overcame the violence of their opposition.
But look at what country it worked in. The U.S.A. Do you really King's methods would have worked in Nazi Germany? In the Middle East? Against Stalin? Against Bin Ladin? Sadam? I doubt it. Also, what ended Slavery in the U.S.? The American Civil War.
you didn't answer my question. And in my question, I never said that you're dying would give other people peace and freedom. My question is solely about just you, your life, your rights, and your freedom.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
If a man is not at peace, is he really free?
But to get it a bit more serious, how about the Civil Rights movement? Sure, there was a lot of violence involved on both sides, but some of the most famous examples and imagery in the movement were peaceful protests and marches led by people like Martin Luther King against violent police forces, yet the Civil Rights Movement was regarded as successfuly eventually. Their peaceful methods overcame the violence of their opposition.
But look at what country it worked in. The U.S.A. Do you really King's methods would have worked in Nazi Germany? In the Middle East? Against Stalin? Against Bin Ladin? Sadam? I doubt it. Also, what ended Slavery in the U.S.? The American Civil War.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
First, as for the whole Hitler vs Gandhi discussion, it is a silly and ridiculous scenario and has no porpouse on our current discussion.
bullsh__, it goes to prove that total and complete pasifism doesn't work against people who care nothing for human life. Hitler would rule the world in my scenario because Gandhis refuse to fight him. That's the point.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
I didn't mention ANY of the possibilities. If there was a way people could live freely and in peace, and I belive we CAN (all we have to do is stop being such mean sons of bithces), and if to acomplish that I would have to give my my own freedom or life, but making sure the rest of the world is free and at peace, I would give up my life in a second.
First, as for the whole Hitler vs Gandhi discussion, it is a silly and ridiculous scenario and has no porpouse on our current discussion.
bullsh__, it goes to prove that total and complete pasifism doesn't work against people who care nothing for human life. Hitler would rule the world in my scenario because Gandhis refuse to fight him. That's the point.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
I didn't mention ANY of the possibilities. If there was a way people could live freely and in peace, and I belive we CAN (all we have to do is stop being such mean sons of bithces), and if to acomplish that I would have to give my my own freedom or life, but making sure the rest of the world is free and at peace, I would give up my life in a second.
you didn't answer my question. And in my question, I never said that you're dying would give other people peace and freedom. My question is solely about just you, your life, your rights, and your freedom.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
If a man is not at peace, is he really free?
If a man is not free, can he really be at peace? Ric, we are never going to agree on this because I have been brought up in a nation where freedom, justice, and peace are worth fighting for, dying for, and yes even killing for.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
I am still alive because I belive we can acomplish what I wish for, a peaceful and free world.
without resorting to violence? I doubt it. You may achieve peace, but not freedom.
Originally posted by: ricarleite<brIf we can't, if what you guys are saying is right, and if there isn't any hopes, well, give me that gun, I'll be the first to blow my brains out.
fine *gives Ric the WarbSP™* Just so you I have no intention of killing myself afterward. Just becaue we can't achieve peace and freedom without resorting to violence every once is a while, doesn't mean there is no hope. But if you feel that way, go ahead.