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Superman Movie — Page 10

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It's probably because the film is going to have a major international release and that line will not be well received pretty much anywhere outside these borders.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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To have Superman merely fight for the American Way is bullcrap anyway - as in, not in line with the spirit of modern Superman comics - and it sounds aggressively imperialistic. Superman is a world figure, and the scope of his comics, while they may be based in the fictional U.S. city of Metropolis, go beyond even the world - interplanetary. They didn't even use the line in Superman II, so why does it matter? Not to mention the fact that we are talking about a Perry White quote - Perry White would say something dismissive like that, even about his own country - he's a newspaper editor...
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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As a non-US viewer, I totally agree with RedBaron.

Besides, it could be worse. They could have Perry White saying 'Great shades of Elvis'.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Anybody else feel dirty after reading that article? Or that the ad industry thinks we're all suckers?


Yeah.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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There will be subtle deviations from tradition. The slogan "Truth, Justice and the American Way" won't be heard; instead, newspaper editor Perry White says "Truth, justice, all that stuff." It's a nuance that could help bolster international appeal, at a time when the image of the United States is not exactly at its zenith.


I know I'm going to get blasted, but I'm am American and changing to line to "Truth, justice and that stuff" is political correct bs. Superman may not have said the line in Superman II, but he did say it in Superman I. Superman is an American so he should fight for the American Way(and I don't mean Bushes way), and we as truth and Justice. It is a classic line and should not be altered just try to avoid offending nonAmericans. If they get offended, too bad. The movie should make the studios more than enough $$$ in US alone without worrying about pandering to the rest of the world. And if your worring about offending people, what about the Americans you'll be offending by taking out the line?

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That's pretty much what I was trying to say, Warbie. You just said it better.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Warbler
There will be subtle deviations from tradition. The slogan "Truth, Justice and the American Way" won't be heard; instead, newspaper editor Perry White says "Truth, justice, all that stuff." It's a nuance that could help bolster international appeal, at a time when the image of the United States is not exactly at its zenith.


I know I'm going to get blasted, but I'm am American and changing to line to "Truth, justice and that stuff" is political correct bs. Superman may not have said the line in Superman II, but he did say it in Superman I. Superman is an American so he should fight for the American Way(and I don't mean Bushes way), and we as truth and Justice. It is a classic line and should not be altered just try to avoid offending nonAmericans. If they get offended, too bad. The movie should make the studios more than enough $$$ in US alone without worrying about pandering to the rest of the world. And if your worring about offending people, what about the Americans you'll be offending by taking out the line?


Superman is a Kryptonian, and he fights for humanity. Look at the first movie, Jor-El didn't send his son to America, he sent his son to Earth; and he didn't send him to help the Americans; he sent him to help humanity. It was by chance that Superman happened to land in Smallville, USA. If he landed in St. Petersburg, he'd be speaking Russian (even though he probably knows Russian anyway) and he'd be fighting for "Equality, Brotherhood, and the Russian Way." Hell, Superman per sé doesn't even live in the U.S.A - his Fortress of Solitude is in the North Pole for crying out loud! All I'm saying is that Superman doesn't suffer for the lack of nationalist rhetoric; rather, it helps put the whole story in its proper perspective.

Don't you think all that American Way crap is more at home with the Golden Age Superman? When was the last time you read the slogan in a Superman comic, and when was the last time you saw him fighting for the 'American Way'? If the new Superman movie was emblazoned with 'American Way', it would be received as a Team America minus the heavy satire. That is to say that the whole 'American Way' thing is not so much threatening or offensive to the world as it is just plain cheesy - hard to take seriously. Nobody wants to think that Superman fights for mom, apple pie, white picket fences and an SUV; not even democracy - comics are escapism, and I don't think comic fans place much faith in any of these things (not even American ones) - comic readers are people yearning for real heroes (not as in non-fictional, but genuine) in a world without heroes; real role-models; ones outside and above the spheres of politics, law, society, etc.

And let's not forget that Perry White's line is as much a throw-away one as anything else.

Perhaps it is weak, and perhaps it is motivated by not wanting to offend people, but if the line wasn't mentioned at all, the movie wouldn't suffer for it, and the spirit of the Superman mythos as a whole would be properly represented. If it was mentioned, however, it would be cringe-worthy to all non-Americans in the way that the Padmé/Anakin love scenes are cringeworthy to Star Wars fans (well, at least the ones that aren't creepy stalker types).
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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But Superman doesn't live in the Fortress of Solitude. It's more of a weekend/vacation spot than anything else, just when Supes needs to get away from it all. Otherwise, he lives in a regular apartment in Metropolis.

The American Way may be more Golden Age Superman than anything else, but so was the idea that Clark Kent was just a shell, a front for Superman's activities while only Superman was the dominant psychological persona, whereas the more modern interpretation is that Clark Kent is the real man while Superman is just a disguise. There's this qutoe out there "Superman is what I can do. Clark Kent is who I am."

But unfortunately, the new movie seems to be leaning towards this idea that Clark is just a non-persona again and that only Superman is the real psychological being, which sucks.

Originally posted by: Warbler
There will be subtle deviations from tradition. The slogan "Truth, Justice and the American Way" won't be heard; instead, newspaper editor Perry White says "Truth, justice, all that stuff." It's a nuance that could help bolster international appeal, at a time when the image of the United States is not exactly at its zenith.


I know I'm going to get blasted, but I'm am American and changing to line to "Truth, justice and that stuff" is political correct bs. Superman may not have said the line in Superman II, but he did say it in Superman I. Superman is an American so he should fight for the American Way(and I don't mean Bushes way), and we as truth and Justice. It is a classic line and should not be altered just try to avoid offending nonAmericans. If they get offended, too bad. The movie should make the studios more than enough $$$ in US alone without worrying about pandering to the rest of the world. And if your worring about offending people, what about the Americans you'll be offending by taking out the line?


Wouldn't surprise me if the line was dubbed into something different in another country, like the British accent gag in Robin Hood: Men In Tights, some countries had the line changed from "Because unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can actually speak with an English accent" to "Unlike other Robin Hoods, I do not cost the producters five million" and "Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I do not dance with wolves". Wouldn't surprise me at all if the line went from "I'm here to fight for Truth, Justice and the American way" to "I'm here to fight for truth, justice, and the human race." or something like that.

Can you imagine Superman delivering the "I hate sand" speech to Lois Lane?

Did we cover the fact that the actor playing Superman is too young to be returning from anything?
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Originally posted by: theredbaron

Superman is a Kryptonian, and he fights for humanity.

On this, we agree.

Originally posted by: theredbaron
Look at the first movie, Jor-El didn't send his son to America, he sent his son to Earth; and he didn't send him to help the Americans; he sent him to help humanity. It was by chance that Superman happened to land in Smallville, USA. If he landed in St. Petersburg, he'd be speaking Russian (even though he probably knows Russian anyway) and he'd be fighting for "Equality, Brotherhood, and the Russian Way." Hell, Superman per sé doesn't even live in the U.S.A - his Fortress of Solitude is in the North Pole for crying out loud! All I'm saying is that Superman doesn't suffer for the lack of nationalist rhetoric; rather, it helps put the whole story in its proper perspective.


If a movie were being about a Superhero who lived in Russia, and used the slogan you meantioned, do you think there would be any chance that liberal hollywood would change the slogan so to not offend nonRussians? I think not. Yeah the Fortress is in the North Pole, but that is not because he doesn't consider himself an American. The Fortess is up there because the North Pole is a good hiding spot. As I recall he has an Apartment in New York, and he grew up in KA. That's American enough for me.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

Don't you think all that American Way crap is more at home with the Golden Age Superman? .

Well aparently the creators of the Superman I disagree with you on that because they used the line "American Way" in the movie.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

When was the last time you read the slogan in a Superman comic, and when was the last time you saw him fighting for the 'American Way'?

true.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

If the new Superman movie was emblazoned with 'American Way', it would be received as a Team America minus the heavy satire. That is to say that the whole 'American Way' thing is not so much threatening or offensive to the world as it is just plain cheesy - hard to take seriously.


You may think it is cheesy, others might not. Just remember not to confuse all things Bush, with all things American.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

Nobody wants to think that Superman fights for mom, apple pie, white picket fences and an SUV; not even democracy


againg others might disagree with you. And what is wrong with fighting for mom, apple pie and democracy?

Originally posted by: theredbaron
comics are escapism, and I don't think comic fans place much faith in any of these things (not even American ones) - comic readers are people yearning for real heroes (not as in non-fictional, but genuine) in a world without heroes; real role-models; ones outside and above the spheres of politics, law, society, etc.


You said comics were escapism. I am certain that many comic fans yearn to "escape" into a world where the "American Way" is good and just and worthy for Superman to fight for.

Also I am sure that comic fans would not appreciate someone screwing around with Superman's classic tagline.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

And let's not forget that Perry White's line is as much a throw-away one as anything else.


then throw the line out.

Originally posted by: theredbaron

Perhaps it is weak, and perhaps it is motivated by not wanting to offend people, but if the line wasn't mentioned at all, the movie wouldn't suffer for it, and the spirit of the Superman mythos as a whole would be properly represented. If it was mentioned, however, it would be cringe-worthy to all non-Americans in the way that the Padmé/Anakin love scenes are cringeworthy to Star Wars fans (well, at least the ones that aren't creepy stalker types).


Either have the line in the movie correctly, or remove the whole line, but don't use a p.c. version. As for nonAmericans cringing, too bad. This is an American made movie, about an American Icon. I don't tell other countries how to make movies about their Icons, don't tell us how to make movies about ours.

Tell me, should we go back and cgi out the flag from this picture and instead add the flag of the UN just because it might offend nonAmericans?

http://www.supermancollectors.com/SupermanCR/autocrflag.jpg

Here are a few more pictures that should answer the question as to if Superman is an American or not:

http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/aos600sm.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/chronicles/sm178.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/supergirlgbasm.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/benefitpostersm.jpg

http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/flyingsupermanimagesm.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/patriotsup1.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/Godblessamericanhtroyersm.jpg http://www.supermancollectors.com/americanway/reeveflagsm.jpg

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Let's also also not forget that the "Superman" comic and product line was created by Americans in America. Not saying this is good or bad, but there's a reason outside the comics to explain why Supes happened to land in America.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Warbler
There will be subtle deviations from tradition. The slogan "Truth, Justice and the American Way" won't be heard; instead, newspaper editor Perry White says "Truth, justice, all that stuff." It's a nuance that could help bolster international appeal, at a time when the image of the United States is not exactly at its zenith.


I know I'm going to get blasted, but I'm am American and changing to line to "Truth, justice and that stuff" is political correct bs. Superman may not have said the line in Superman II, but he did say it in Superman I. Superman is an American so he should fight for the American Way(and I don't mean Bushes way), and we as truth and Justice. It is a classic line and should not be altered just try to avoid offending nonAmericans. If they get offended, too bad. The movie should make the studios more than enough $$$ in US alone without worrying about pandering to the rest of the world. And if your worring about offending people, what about the Americans you'll be offending by taking out the line?
I'm not offended by the line(and I don't think any Englishman would be), I just think it's cheesy as hell, and will get a lot of groans (even from Americans, especially young Americans). You have to remember that WB are trying to make money here, and the movie has to appeal internationally, and to a broad age range. I do see your point though Warb, and it annoys the s**t out of me when classic English TV shows and movies etc are reworked for the American market (and believe me, it happens a lot. The new Doctor Who series suffers from this).

While we're all posting superman images, try this one on for size:

http://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/97_4_0000058.jpg

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Warbler

Either have the line in the movie correctly, or remove the whole line, but don't use a p.c. version. As for nonAmericans cringing, too bad. This is an American made movie, about an American Icon. I don't tell other countries how to make movies about their Icons, don't tell us how to make movies about ours.

Tell me, should we go back and cgi out the flag from this picture and instead add the flag of the UN just because it might offend nonAmericans?


Some good points overall, Warbler, but I still disagree with a few things, which is fine. I too am of the persuasion that the line should either be included in its full capacity or not at all. It is weak to dilute it. HOWEVER, I am still of the persuasion that the line is no longer relevant to the post-Crisis Superman (I don't think any of those comic covers were from anything after the 70s, remembering that some were anniversary issues), and is regarded as much cheesy as it is classic amongst even American comic fans. I myself am a huge Superman fan - I think he is one of, if not THE most conceptually rich character in comics - but I do not consider the line to be absolutely essential to a Superman movie, much less a comic.

And I still stand by Superman being a Kryptonian above all things. This is what gives him the responsibility he has.

I would be careful about the whole it's-American-made-so-you-don't-have-a-say idea. This is a can of worms best left unopened (or discussed in another thread). If you extend it to the world of Star Wars (in that it was made by Americans), my opinions (or perhaps anyone's other than Lucas') on the Original Trilogy are redundant. The fact is, America is the only superpower and the dominant source of entertainment media. That is to say that many of America's icons are the world's as well. People from all over the world leave their home countries to 'make it big' in their respective arts in the U.S., so to say that Americans are the only ones that have contributed to the Superman mythos (let alone Hollywood, etc.) I think is a bit of a blanket statement.

HSVIJ, I think there's another approach to Superman out there, and that is that Superman is intrinsically Superman (or Kal-El) while Clark Kent is the alter-ego. But not just a shell - Clark Kent is the side of Superman that is an alien trying to live/fit in as a human amongst other humans. He is like the ultimate immigrant (like his Jewish creators), bringing his contributions to society as Superman. I don't think it's so much a case of one or the other, but merely what the writer wishes to spend his/her time/pages expositing a particular story (i.e. do I want to write a story about Superman, or do I want to write a story about Clark Kent?). I feel that the first two Superman movies were as much about Clark Kent as they were about Superman, and I'm sure the screen time reflects this.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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I don't think any of those comic covers were from anything after the 70s, remembering that some were anniversary issues


Take another look at the first two pictures I posted.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
I don't think any of those comic covers were from anything after the 70s, remembering that some were anniversary issues


Take another look at the first two pictures I posted.


That's why I said comic books - after all, isn't that what the movies should be based on?
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: theredbaron
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father

http://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/97_4_0000058.jpg


Lord, help us!

See what I mean? The Superman of old doesn't hold up well today!


The Superman of old has a better costume than the Superman of the 2006 film though.

That comic cover reminds me of this Max Fleischer Superman short called "Japoteurs" where Superman had to thwart some evil Japanese spy who was trying to steal an American warplane. Only in the 1940s...

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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'Japoteurs'. You have got to be kidding. But I know you're not.

War does not make one great.

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those old 40's war propoganda comics arent relavent to the topic at hand (imho). Something like that would never be published today as its a different time, but its still likely that a comic with superman holding the american flag on the cover would be.

but im not arguing either way, i just wanted to post these pics

Superman True Brit
http://www.fpigraphics.co.uk/acatalog/product_G8081.jpg
http://www.dailyllama.com/news/2004/images/superman_true_brit.jpg

Superman Red Son
http://theages.superman.ws/History/redson/balloon.jpg
http://theages.superman.ws/History/redson/runit.jpg


-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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he doesnt look as bad (keyword as) in one of the pages i found...

http://a-arca.uol.com.br/v2/images/gibi_news_superbrit_03.jpg

they def went with a totally different art style though

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Superman Red Son
http://theages.superman.ws/History/redson/balloon.jpg
http://theages.superman.ws/History/redson/runit.jpg
-Darth Simon


Supermensch!
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg