Originally posted by: theredbaron
Superman is a Kryptonian, and he fights for humanity.
On this, we agree.
then throw the line out.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Perhaps it is weak, and perhaps it is motivated by not wanting to offend people, but if the line wasn't mentioned at all, the movie wouldn't suffer for it, and the spirit of the Superman mythos as a whole would be properly represented. If it was mentioned, however, it would be cringe-worthy to all non-Americans in the way that the Padmé/Anakin love scenes are cringeworthy to Star Wars fans (well, at least the ones that aren't creepy stalker types).
Superman is a Kryptonian, and he fights for humanity.
On this, we agree.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Look at the first movie, Jor-El didn't send his son to America, he sent his son to Earth; and he didn't send him to help the Americans; he sent him to help humanity. It was by chance that Superman happened to land in Smallville, USA. If he landed in St. Petersburg, he'd be speaking Russian (even though he probably knows Russian anyway) and he'd be fighting for "Equality, Brotherhood, and the Russian Way." Hell, Superman per sé doesn't even live in the U.S.A - his Fortress of Solitude is in the North Pole for crying out loud! All I'm saying is that Superman doesn't suffer for the lack of nationalist rhetoric; rather, it helps put the whole story in its proper perspective.
If a movie were being about a Superhero who lived in Russia, and used the slogan you meantioned, do you think there would be any chance that liberal hollywood would change the slogan so to not offend nonRussians? I think not. Yeah the Fortress is in the North Pole, but that is not because he doesn't consider himself an American. The Fortess is up there because the North Pole is a good hiding spot. As I recall he has an Apartment in New York, and he grew up in KA. That's American enough for me.
You said comics were escapism. I am certain that many comic fans yearn to "escape" into a world where the "American Way" is good and just and worthy for Superman to fight for.
Also I am sure that comic fans would not appreciate someone screwing around with Superman's classic tagline.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
And let's not forget that Perry White's line is as much a throw-away one as anything else.
Look at the first movie, Jor-El didn't send his son to America, he sent his son to Earth; and he didn't send him to help the Americans; he sent him to help humanity. It was by chance that Superman happened to land in Smallville, USA. If he landed in St. Petersburg, he'd be speaking Russian (even though he probably knows Russian anyway) and he'd be fighting for "Equality, Brotherhood, and the Russian Way." Hell, Superman per sé doesn't even live in the U.S.A - his Fortress of Solitude is in the North Pole for crying out loud! All I'm saying is that Superman doesn't suffer for the lack of nationalist rhetoric; rather, it helps put the whole story in its proper perspective.
If a movie were being about a Superhero who lived in Russia, and used the slogan you meantioned, do you think there would be any chance that liberal hollywood would change the slogan so to not offend nonRussians? I think not. Yeah the Fortress is in the North Pole, but that is not because he doesn't consider himself an American. The Fortess is up there because the North Pole is a good hiding spot. As I recall he has an Apartment in New York, and he grew up in KA. That's American enough for me.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Don't you think all that American Way crap is more at home with the Golden Age Superman? .
Well aparently the creators of the Superman I disagree with you on that because they used the line "American Way" in the movie.
againg others might disagree with you. And what is wrong with fighting for mom, apple pie and democracy?
Originally posted by: theredbaron
comics are escapism, and I don't think comic fans place much faith in any of these things (not even American ones) - comic readers are people yearning for real heroes (not as in non-fictional, but genuine) in a world without heroes; real role-models; ones outside and above the spheres of politics, law, society, etc.
Don't you think all that American Way crap is more at home with the Golden Age Superman? .
Well aparently the creators of the Superman I disagree with you on that because they used the line "American Way" in the movie.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
When was the last time you read the slogan in a Superman comic, and when was the last time you saw him fighting for the 'American Way'?
true.
You may think it is cheesy, others might not. Just remember not to confuse all things Bush, with all things American.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Nobody wants to think that Superman fights for mom, apple pie, white picket fences and an SUV; not even democracy
When was the last time you read the slogan in a Superman comic, and when was the last time you saw him fighting for the 'American Way'?
true.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
If the new Superman movie was emblazoned with 'American Way', it would be received as a Team America minus the heavy satire. That is to say that the whole 'American Way' thing is not so much threatening or offensive to the world as it is just plain cheesy - hard to take seriously.
If the new Superman movie was emblazoned with 'American Way', it would be received as a Team America minus the heavy satire. That is to say that the whole 'American Way' thing is not so much threatening or offensive to the world as it is just plain cheesy - hard to take seriously.
You may think it is cheesy, others might not. Just remember not to confuse all things Bush, with all things American.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Nobody wants to think that Superman fights for mom, apple pie, white picket fences and an SUV; not even democracy
againg others might disagree with you. And what is wrong with fighting for mom, apple pie and democracy?
Originally posted by: theredbaron
comics are escapism, and I don't think comic fans place much faith in any of these things (not even American ones) - comic readers are people yearning for real heroes (not as in non-fictional, but genuine) in a world without heroes; real role-models; ones outside and above the spheres of politics, law, society, etc.
You said comics were escapism. I am certain that many comic fans yearn to "escape" into a world where the "American Way" is good and just and worthy for Superman to fight for.
Also I am sure that comic fans would not appreciate someone screwing around with Superman's classic tagline.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
And let's not forget that Perry White's line is as much a throw-away one as anything else.
then throw the line out.
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Perhaps it is weak, and perhaps it is motivated by not wanting to offend people, but if the line wasn't mentioned at all, the movie wouldn't suffer for it, and the spirit of the Superman mythos as a whole would be properly represented. If it was mentioned, however, it would be cringe-worthy to all non-Americans in the way that the Padmé/Anakin love scenes are cringeworthy to Star Wars fans (well, at least the ones that aren't creepy stalker types).
Either have the line in the movie correctly, or remove the whole line, but don't use a p.c. version. As for nonAmericans cringing, too bad. This is an American made movie, about an American Icon. I don't tell other countries how to make movies about their Icons, don't tell us how to make movies about ours.
Tell me, should we go back and cgi out the flag from this picture and instead add the flag of the UN just because it might offend nonAmericans?
Here are a few more pictures that should answer the question as to if Superman is an American or not:
