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Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 32
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
I just have one problem right now, having lined all of the scenes in the movie in order for further editing: I cannot stand the bedroom scene. Portman's acting is weak, the style of shooting is weak, the conversation is weak, and I just think that this scene is a waste of time. I know that MTH was pushing for it, but I'm dying to remove this scene. Could you either OK this, or explain to me better how the benefits of this scene outweigh the losses? When viewing it in sequence, it just brings down the whole movie for me.
I just have one problem right now, having lined all of the scenes in the movie in order for further editing: I cannot stand the bedroom scene. Portman's acting is weak, the style of shooting is weak, the conversation is weak, and I just think that this scene is a waste of time. I know that MTH was pushing for it, but I'm dying to remove this scene. Could you either OK this, or explain to me better how the benefits of this scene outweigh the losses? When viewing it in sequence, it just brings down the whole movie for me.
I've always been for cutting this scene. Your analysis explains why. Be gone with it!
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And TM, Darth Richard makes a good point, have you put any more thought/made a decision on how/if to incorporate Maul=Greivous into the film in some small way? Is that a possibility that's still on the table, or have we jettisoned that idea?
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
He's a perfectionist, People!
Hey- I resemble that remark
No, I'll have you know that Episode III will probably take a good deal less time than SOTDS. I already have the system worked out, and on top of that, I was much more impressed with the colors and the cinematography for ROTS. General Grievous and the whole Upatu thing is what needs a major overhaul. But I think Lucas actually hit the nail on the head with the Palpatine/Anakin scenes- before Palpatine becomes disfigured. This scene and some of the ones that follow it are incredibly ridiculous. Some of the ways are very difficult or impossible to fix, such as Palptine's distorted voice and his awful makeup. But there is less to do on ROTS, and I already have the system and the universe/objectives set up.
He's a perfectionist, People!
Hey- I resemble that remark
No, I'll have you know that Episode III will probably take a good deal less time than SOTDS. I already have the system worked out, and on top of that, I was much more impressed with the colors and the cinematography for ROTS. General Grievous and the whole Upatu thing is what needs a major overhaul. But I think Lucas actually hit the nail on the head with the Palpatine/Anakin scenes- before Palpatine becomes disfigured. This scene and some of the ones that follow it are incredibly ridiculous. Some of the ways are very difficult or impossible to fix, such as Palptine's distorted voice and his awful makeup. But there is less to do on ROTS, and I already have the system and the universe/objectives set up.
Trooperman, any thoughts on how to 'fix' the Palpatine 'oh darn, my own force lightning is hurting me' scene?
The reason I ask that whatever Lucas states to the contrary, I've always believed that Palpatine always looked that way.
My thoughts are that being a powerful Sith he used the force to disguise his 'public' appearance. It's just not credible that he hurts himself to that extent with his own force lightning.
It would be more credible if:
a) The prolonged attack on Mace with the lightning causes a 'power drain' that removes his ability to disguise himself.
or
b) The reveal was intentional and made to look like damage from the force lightning to gain simpathy with Anakin and / or the senate.
I'm not sure how it could be made clearer to the viewer that it was not accidental injury with the limited shots we have. Maybe some sort of shot morphing Palpatine / Sidious later on to show he has the ability to 'restore' his face?
I just wish the scene was shot originally somethin like this:
Palpatine: 'Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?'
Palpatine stands, puts up his hood. Close up on lower part of his face, turning pale... Camera pans up to his 'evil eyes'. Shot of Sidious pulling out his light Saber, jump attack on the Jedi... etc
D.
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The sidious-darth-emperor-palpitine transformation from man to grandma will be difficult. We know why he did it: to make it seem like mace scarred him. (which didn't really seem necessary to me.) Thinking realistically, he simply seems to have the ability to become ugly. Idealy, he'd be something beyond human that wore the palpatine face like a mask, of which it freed itself to use the convenient excuse that he was scarred. but how to make it seem like he transformed at will, that's a problem. I agree. It would have been best if he sprang towards the jedi and transformed into the grandma at the same time, saying "now you see my true face for the first and LAST time. ha ha ha" or something like that.
"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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please use rapidshare to upload video clips and other stuff. YouSendIt expires already after 7 days, rapidshare after 30. I don't want to always ask the maker of a clip if he could reupload his clips, I guess I already got one somebody's nerves.
And please reupload the clip of AotC with scenes of Lawrence of Arabia and, if possible, the other clips, like rotoscoped lightsaber duel etc.
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I have uploaded a couple clips to rapidshare:
Lawrence of Arabia clone war
New rotoscoped saber
2-in-1
I'm sorry yousendit only hosted them for 7 days; I will use rapidshare in the future so that this won't be a future issue.
I WAS wondering what is going to happen with Maul=Grievous. We were discussing a scene coming directly after the Dooku/Sidious meeting, in which Sidious shows off his "work-in-progress". I'm a little bit confused by the logistics of that, though. What footage were we considering using to cover this again?
You fellows also bring up a really good point about the Emperor's transformation. I had always assumed (until Ep. 3) that using the Dark Side led to physical deterioration, and as the Emperor used it more and more, he deteriorated more and more. Obviously, this cannot happen now. The question is- how do we make it seem as though the Emperor revealed himself deliberately, and he wasn't injured by his own force lightning? My solution- the dream.
Sidious slowly fades on screen, his eyes glowing.
Voice of Anakin: Who are you?
Sidious: Someone you know. Someone you know very well.
I'll tackle that when I come to it, but I think that this can be developed through Anakin's dream in Ep. III.
Also, so that Erikstormtrooper wouldn't have to fool around with images (and so I could update the images more frequently), I decided to see if I could make a couple picture pages online. The layout isn't very good and the whole site might only be temporary, but it's kind of an experiment. I don't know too much about the Internet.
Pics 1
Nightmare sequence
And finally, the bedroom scene is cut, unless the defense speaks up soon (where are you, MTH?
) Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
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***
As quick as possible -- one last shot at the bedroom scene:
(My reason to keep it, put briefly, is to show one more step in this weakly presented romance. "Girl revealing herself to boy" is an important and missing beat from this movie. Here is the only sort of natural moment they get where she says something completely personal-- something about a part of her life that has nothing to do with the main story-- it's a window into who she is. It's a big deal that she feels like sharing something personal with "little Anni" whom she knew so little about just a day or so before.)
Of course, the scene has to be good enough not to grind the movie to a frickin' halt-- so if no way to make it more interesting occurs to you then let me suggest a way that I like-- Then you can try it, toss it out, etc.
To recap: the scene has a good purpose; but the scene is clunky and lacks elegance. Solution: add elegance. I say reduce the dialogue by 1/2 or so. First, pick the best/most romantic music you can to lift this scene and carry it. Second, start the scene just after Anakin's first line and let him look around wordlessly. Let Padme pack/unpack wordlessly. He looks at the picture on the wall and half-laughs, wordlessly. She notices and they look at it together.
Then she finally says the first line: "That's when I worked for a relief group. Their sun was imploding and the planet dying..." (I'm approximating the dialogue here) She keeps talking and says the one kid's name means "sweetheart."
Then she crosses back to her bags-- but we cut this dialogue-- nothing about how they were so full of life. Cut the movement and the over the shoulder shot on Anakin so that her next line (and it could be more powerful if read as we look over the shoulder at the picture) is "...They all died."
This way it's a little more brutal-- reveals more pain in Padme and therefore more of a surrender on her part for actually sharing this painful story in an honest way with Anakin.
I believe this more natural dialogue and ragged emotion (and better music) can lift the scene to being worthy.
Then comes the decision of where to put it-- I still say it should be the first of the scenes at Padme's house. Followed by meeting the parents and discussing things over dinner and then cleaning up in the kitchen-- This ordering lifts the importance of this scene to me too. It emphasizes the Anakin/Padme relationship. Rushing right into the dinner puts a wedge between these two which doesn't support the "look out the kitchen window" shot so well that's supposed to be romantic. The dinner scene puts Anakin in a weird spot-- he has to meet all these strangers and he has to disagree with Padme in front of them-- and embarrass her. It's not romantic-- but if the bedroom scene happens first, then we feel more about the romance that lies beneath the surface.
In my mind, anyway. See what you think. Great work TM!
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I love honesty- thanks! You won't believe me, but I had the exact same thought- it was on my list of things to rerecord. Rest assured knowing that a pickup was already recorded, and it sounds much better. The sound was kind of "temp".
MTH: The bedroom scene is making some more sense to me, particularly without as much yakking from Padme and some nice music that evokes the feelings that the scene has to to make it work. So far so good. The main issue I have with this is that it seems out-of-place and confusing, and I as an audience member would be wondering, "Why isn't Padme excited to see her parents after all this time? Why did she just slip upstairs to the bedroom without even saying hi?" This would be detrimental to the movie.
Then, I remembered...I have the power to make Anakin say anything I want. Something like "I'm looking forward to meeting your parents when they come home." at the beginning of the scene. This would explain why they went up to the bedroom to unpack- nobody was home when they came. Unfortunately, this scenario would require cutting the little scene with R2 and the children, which adds a lot more character. I guess you could assume that either the children were only left home for a little while, or Padme's sister was actually at home but didn't see them come in. We don't want to create negligent parents for Padme!
It seems to me that if they meet the parents, have the nice picnic in the meadow, and then have their first kiss, (in that order), presto! They are young kids in love, and you can cut out ALL the rest of their horrible, creepy love story, and I mean all of it.
Well, that's almost how it works, only we have a chat after they arrive on Naboo (which, thanks to the deleted footage, is now void of any politics or "terms"). Also, they do not kiss on the balcony, and the balcony scene leads into the fireplace scene. I do want you to know that my initial plan was to have them kiss on the balcony and completely delete the fireplace scene; this would make me happy. However, I've been convinced by MTH that a flat-out rejection is necessary to create a character arc for Anakin. Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, (boy loses mother), boy finally gets girl. In this way, we create an ultimate low point for Anakin in the garage, which makes everything he does far more reasonable.
Know, though, that in the new fireplace scene, it has a lot more to do with music and unspoken things implied by close-ups. None of the "Hoping that that kiss you never should have given me will not become a scar" garbage. Just "It's not possible." "What...what do you mean, Padme?" (very sad). "That was forbidden for a Jedi. I can't." Anakin is very upset. Some long close-ups. Anakin stands and walks a few steps. "Now, you do know....they wouldn't have to find out about all this." (his last shot). "We could keep it a secret." Close-ups and music plays. "No. I can't do that." Pause. "Could you live like that, Anakin?" Long pause and music builds. "No."
HOWEVER...aesthetically, I like your solution better, with the "We could keep it a secret" before the arena. There's a part of me that really likes the dramatic approach with "I love you", music builds, kiss. There's also a part of me that would really enjoy a more light-hearted touch to this. The OT was so much more fun that way. Maybe I could mix both of them- still have the partial fireplace scene, and then change the confession...
Padme: "I love you."
Anakin: (happy) "I guess you're able to keep secrets after all." Smooch.
I don't know- something like that. I think the whole "gloom and doom" atmosphere of the romance could be lifted with one or two comments like this. Anyhow, these are very good concepts. Thank you, guys!
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
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-Confession and Rejection
-Arrival at Coruscant
-Coruscant nights
-The Funeral of Shmi
-Chat with Palpatine.
-Garage Scene
The Uncle Owen dialogue should be on the way as well. And the dialogue for Lama-Su is still being reworked a bit, but I’ll let “Nanner Split” know when the lines are all set.
-TM
P.S.: As a kind of neat side note, I was able to augment the dream (and not have to use the same few seconds of footage flipped and flipped and recolored in every way possible), using a couple excellent close-ups of Tuskens taken from the old ’77 “Making of Star Wars” documentary. Who would have thought that film would be useful in an edit?
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Hi everyone! The following scenes have been dubbed:
-Confession and Rejection
-Arrival at Coruscant
-Coruscant nights
-The Funeral of Shmi
-Chat with Palpatine.
-Garage Scene
The Uncle Owen dialogue should be on the way as well. And the dialogue for Lama-Su is still being reworked a bit, but I’ll let “Nanner Split” know when the lines are all set.
-TM
P.S.: As a kind of neat side note, I was able to augment the dream (and not have to use the same few seconds of footage flipped and flipped and recolored in every way possible), using a couple excellent close-ups of Tuskens taken from the old ’77 “Making of Star Wars” documentary. Who would have thought that film would be useful in an edit?
Hi everyone! The following scenes have been dubbed:
-Confession and Rejection
-Arrival at Coruscant
-Coruscant nights
-The Funeral of Shmi
-Chat with Palpatine.
-Garage Scene
The Uncle Owen dialogue should be on the way as well. And the dialogue for Lama-Su is still being reworked a bit, but I’ll let “Nanner Split” know when the lines are all set.
-TM
P.S.: As a kind of neat side note, I was able to augment the dream (and not have to use the same few seconds of footage flipped and flipped and recolored in every way possible), using a couple excellent close-ups of Tuskens taken from the old ’77 “Making of Star Wars” documentary. Who would have thought that film would be useful in an edit?
Will Uncle Owen be Obi-Wans brother in this edit?
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Will Uncle Owen be Obi-Wans brother in this edit?
No, because this would probably take too long to set up and explain. I only have a couple lines of dialogue to set up the new character. Would there be a storytelling advantage in this? (besides the fact that it was in the original script for ROTJ). If so, I'd love your ideas on this
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Will Uncle Owen be Obi-Wans brother in this edit?
No, because this would probably take too long to set up and explain. I only have a couple lines of dialogue to set up the new character. Would there be a storytelling advantage in this? (besides the fact that it was in the original script for ROTJ). If so, I'd love your ideas on this
Will Uncle Owen be Obi-Wans brother in this edit?
No, because this would probably take too long to set up and explain. I only have a couple lines of dialogue to set up the new character. Would there be a storytelling advantage in this? (besides the fact that it was in the original script for ROTJ). If so, I'd love your ideas on this
I was only wondering because it makes the end of ROTS make more sense because then your like ok Obi-wan brought the kid to his brother instead of what? wait? why did he jsut drop them off to someone he never met.
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I'm thrilled that the Making of Star Wars documentary could contribute a shot. That's thinking outside of the box.
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Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
The 2000 version of "Dune" was a wonderful suggestion, and it has some GREAT shots. We now have a much more dangerous looking fall for Padme (out of the gunship), a close-up of Boba-Fett's eyes as he watches his father's murder (the guy looks just like him), a fabulous and critical shot for the dream sequence coming in Ep. III, and several great battle shots for Geonosis, including one complete with the back view of the two pilots. The style of the shots is 100% Star Wars.
The 2000 version of "Dune" was a wonderful suggestion, and it has some GREAT shots. We now have a much more dangerous looking fall for Padme (out of the gunship), a close-up of Boba-Fett's eyes as he watches his father's murder (the guy looks just like him), a fabulous and critical shot for the dream sequence coming in Ep. III, and several great battle shots for Geonosis, including one complete with the back view of the two pilots. The style of the shots is 100% Star Wars.
thats awesome. I can't wait till this edit is in my DVd player
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Neither can I!
I just thought I would put this out there in case anyone had some free time to spare. I need C3PO dialogue for his introduction on Tatooine, dialogue similar to this, with minimal music in the background:
C3PO: I am See-Threepio, human/cyborg relations. At your service. So pleased to meet you, sir. I need not take the liberty to inform you that…(or some other typical 3PO ramble).
Anakin: I’m here to find my mother- Shmi Skywalker.
C3PO: Your mother! Well, the proper procedure is ….etc. etc. (blah blah blah- establishing him as a very annoying character from the get go).
Anakin: Just take me to your master.
C3PO: Oh, yes. I see. My master. Follow me, please.
CUT to EXT: Owen’s place.
And a little later, we need something similar to this line:
C3PO: Sir, sir! There must be some mistake!
---------
If anyone wanted to do a search through the radio dramas for this dialogue, it would be much appreciated and would save me a lot of time looking through them myself. Unfortunately, I can't find any of the radio drama scripts online, so you'd have to do it by listening to the audio.
Thanks for your help,
-TM
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition