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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 9

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>> Does the music from the workprint appear at all (like during the March of the One-Eyes)?

What do you think? (No. Don't be silly.)


http://orangecow.org/thief/japaneseDVDmenu.jpg

Japanese DVD menu.

Here it is Photoshopped onto that tiny image of the cover.

http://orangecow.org/thief/japanesedvdcoverphotoshopped.jpg

Fun with Photoshop!

I had a small scan of the Thief from the Cannes Brochure painting, so I added him to the large scan of that painting, where he would have been.

large image --
http://orangecow.org/thief/cannesbrochurewthief.jpg

Lower quality than the rest, but you get the idea. I also threw the Old Witch in there. Not sure where she was exactly in the painting.
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I really liked the image, so here's something I cooked up using the DVD cover. I'm no expert, but I worked with it in The GIMP for a little while. More things could be done, I know. Looks like some of the things I learned making simple sigs went to good use. ^_^

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5572/japanesedvdcover25mg.jpg

I'm still looking forward to seeing this. I've played a bit of the workprint, and it does look interesting. Being the animation fan that I am, I've got to check it out. It'll be interesting to see how you've combined elements from different sources.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Tony White writes:

Dick was a perfectionist. He had the uncanny ability to spot a spec of dust on one frame of film as it went through the 'dailies' projector at the studio. No-one else could see it but he would.
He would then rant and rave and insist on a re-shoot... even though it was quite likely that the scene took two days to shoot in the first place and no-one in the world would see what he saw. (He was invariably right about seeing it however!) His quest for perfection was both his greatest friend and his ultimate enemy of course... in the sense that he was repeatedly fired from major productions (beyond his own creation) for being behind time and over budget. But 'genius'?... yes, he was... and probably still is, wherever he is and whatever he is doing right now. I owe everything in my career to him and could never replace the fantastic two years I had as his personal assistant/apprentice and the subsequent five years I was a director/animator for him at the studio. (By the way, the sequence you are talking about in the documentary... where he criticised the assitant's inbetweens... that was Dick on his best behaviour for the cameras! I could tell you stories about how he could really tear into unfortunate employees for far, far less reason!)

Maybe one day someone will write the definitive book on Dick that will lay out the truth and the tragedy of his life. (s)
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B writes --

"I was in the top office with Dick and Roy Naisbitt (his assistant, and a genius himself) one afternoon, and Dick came in and told us that Jim Henson had died. We were shocked at this, and we expected Dick to come out with some critical or distasteful comment as he did from time to time. But he surprised us both. He told us he had great respect for Jim and called him one of the most talented animators there was. We didn't understand this, and questioned what he had meant by this. He said, 'If you're watching The Muppet Show or Sesame Street on TV, turn the sound down. Henson was so good that you could tell what Kermit the Frog was saying even though you couldn't hear him'."
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Sounds a lot like Richard Williams is the animation equal to Stanley Kubrick or Erich von Stroheim.

That's one thing I noticed on all the Thief screenshots, as well as Roger Rabbit entirely... the cel animation is so perfectly crafted. Even in the best Disney cartoons (even Snow White, Bambi, and Fantasia), there's a lot of mistakes (many corrected for DVD).

But on those two films, I can't see a speck of cel dust, any uneven cel painting, or reflections. Not even film grain. Although, I've read that when you deal with animation (drawn or models), you can fully expose a frame with absolutely perfect exposure and lighting. Thus, a very, very low amount of grain texture.

In sort of Machievellian terms, yeah, he'd go over budget and over schedule, but the end result justifies it.

I think Williams would have been able to avoid some of his later problems by just cranking out a handful of excellent, but quickly made films in the 1970's. Even if they were not as polished, as long as they made enough money... this is how Charlie Chaplin was able to gain independence. He could spend 3 1/2 years on a 80 minute film like City Lights, with almost 300 takes for one scene... having months out of production... rehearsing on film. But no one could say no because he was in full control.

He should have had a different contract, too. After the success of Roger Rabbit, he should have been more forceful on the terms - like being allowed more time and money. Honestly, with three Oscars in hand and right off a huge blockbuster movie, what's 7 more years in production instead of 4? Considering the money being poured into crappy movies in the 1990's, as well as good ones... surely "Thief" wasn't eating up too much money. The War Machine sequence cost a quarter of a million and it was the most complex part of the movie - I can't imagine the whole production costing more than $30 million. Any idea on the costs?

Who Framed Roger Rabbit cost $70 million, but "Thief" didn't require all those practical effects, compositing, live-action shooting, etc.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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BIG UPDATE!



EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED.


Everything.



Stanch has sent me a VHS tape and a DVD.


The DVD contains Williams' workprint, the one we all have in poor quality, in what I can only describe as "very good quality."

http://orangecow.org/thief/workprint1.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/workprint2.jpg
http://orangecow.org/thief/workprint3.jpg

This is a copy made from a copy of Fred Calvert's copy. The picture is very clear. The worst thing I can say about it is that it shows signs of definite DVD compression, so the original VHS would have been preferable.

It's clear and clean, and compared to the awful VHS copies of the workprint that are out there, this is remarkable.

The sound drops out almost entirely around the witch scene, which doesn't affect my edit much as I can just use the sound from another copy, and the picture is still clean. But it will annoy those watching this lovely DVD.

Also on the DVD is the rare and wonderful "censored" 90s Warner Bros cartoon, Blooper Bunny. Unrelated to The Thief of course, but any animation fan will love both. And hey, they both have a remarkable moving camera.


The VHS tape Stanch sent contains something equally interesting, and completely insane.


Fred Calvert's work in progress for The Princess and the Cobbler.

I want to call it a workprint, because it definitely resembles Williams' own workprint, except for the Calvert version of the film. Calvert's film has barely been begun at this point - he hasn't recorded final voices or done any animation of his own. The storyboards are hilariously off model to what Williams did, and look like they were done by retarded monkeys. The temp voices are equally bad.

The quality of this is pretty good, but not as good as the Williams workprint Stanch sent, so I'll only be using it for a few things.

This is an insane version of the film. It bears no resemblance to any version of the film you've seen before. It's wrong on so many levels, and fascinating. It really takes you behind the scenes to show you EXACTLY what Calvert did to the film, because you can see EXACTLY what Williams didn't complete, which happens to be a lot. You'll be impressed, and say, wait, Calvert actually did that shot? And during the new scenes you'll be horrified and laugh.

The film has a female narrator who is best described as "sassy." She narrates way too much of the film, describing things we already know, and her audio is really clumsily clunked into the film (all other audio cuts out as she speaks).

The Thief talks in this version (he doesn't in Calvert's final version), and he sounds like Gollum! He's constantly saying things like "Ooh, pretty pretty ... ooh, mine." It's bizarre.

King Nod is still voiced by Anthony Quayle, and Yumyum by Hilary Pritchard, except in the new scenes Calvert is adding, which appear in storyboards voiced by terrible terrible actors.

These storyboards are different from the final film, and longer, showing that Calvert had more bad ideas which didn't make it. Calvert seems to blame King Nod for everything that goes bad with the kingdom - he has a soliliquy where he wonders, what have I done?

The song sequences are limited to "She is More" and "Am I Feeling Love?" ... "Beem Bom" and "It's So Amazing" are not present at this point. Some kind soul has decided to cut both song segments out of this tape entirely, which I'm grateful for. Though it would have been amusing to see these segments as storyboards.

Okay, what you're waiting for - Williams animation that doesn't appear in any other version of the movie?

Oh yes.

There certainly is some. Not a lot, but there certainly is some.

Most notably, the entire first scene with One Eye, on the battlefield, has been completed by Williams! It's not just pencil test anymore. "And I will gnaw the golden city to the bone- and spit it out!" COMPLETED yo.

There is entirely different pencil animation for the princess in the bath - "where is my backscratcher?" - Princess Yumyum's twin is entirely gone from this version.

"None shall escape!" "Except for the princess ..." The entire scene with Zigzag and One Eye, which Williams cut out from the workprint but Calvert put back, is present here. It's mostly pencil tests, which is remarkable because it looks like Williams work in the final cut. Guess it's good Calvert inks. The amazing thing is that the original One Eye voice is present here, not Kevin Dorsey, so if I really wanted, I could put back the original voice! But I've gotten used to Dorsey. Hm.

The Witch scene is much more complete than in the workprint. Which is nice because the Princess and the Cobbler DVD isn't widescreen, and this is.

In the beginning of the witch scene, we see some Williams pencil animation of the witch originally appearing as an Aladdin like magic lamp. (This is hinted at in the workprint, but not clearly.) An eye pops out of the lamp and flies around a bit. Then the witch becomes the witch we expect. This is different from any other version.

As in Calvert's final cut, the witch is still voiced by Joan Sims, except for the beginning and end of the scene. Calvert's voice for the witch, who I think was Mona Marshall, has already been recorded at this point. It's the only voice which is identical to Calvert's final cut.

The voice for the Nurse/Nanny is hilariously bad in this cut.

There is some extra Williams pencil test animation as Zigzag charges on his horse toward Tack at the end. This scene is much longer than it wound up, and matches the workprint much more closely. It's a few extra pencil shots of Zigzag's horse attacking Tack.

MUCH more of the film appears in pencil test rather than storyboards. Most of these scenes were things that Calvert had his animators complete, but it's nice to see Williams' original pencils.

You see Zigzag talking to the crocodiles - that entire scene was animated by Williams, but inked by Calvert's hacks.

The king saying "The Prophecy has been fulfilled!" appears in pencil test, meaning that Calvert's men apparently inked that, which surprised me as it looks pretty good. Ditto Yumyum at the polo game asking "Do you know where my cobbler has gone to?"

Amazingly, the entire ending of the film - Tack saying "I love you", them kissing ... that whole bit is still storyboards at this point! Not even Williams pencils.

I can't imagine that Calvert's men did this shot. I can't. But I guess they did. Wow. Jesus.

That explains why Tack's animation here doesn't match Sean Connery's voice track.

Actually, this cut explains a lot of things. Why certain shots match Williams' voice tracks and others don't. It's because occasionally Calvert replaced the original voice tracks with his own tracks before the animators got hold of them.

Also amazingly, the entire last shot with the Thief stealing the film is still pencil test at this point. I'm shocked that this was a Calvert shot, but it is.

Most of the stuff with the brigands appears in pencil test form - like them consulting the brigand's handbook, and "I am Roofless, the Chieftain!" These shots always looked like Williams work, but slightly off somehow. This explains why - Calvert inks of Williams pencils.

A lot of what Calvert's men did in this cut makes me laugh out loud, because it matches what I did in my own edit.

There's a cut from Zigzag getting killed to the Thief, identical to what I did! And I'd thought that one bad Calvert shot of Nod at the end matched the workprint storyboards for him saying "My wonderful daughter." Well, I was more right than I could have known. =) That storyboard appears there, right there, with that voice track.

The entire "What is your name?" scene with Tack and Yumyum where they're getting to know each other - this has more Williams pencils in it, and matches what I wound up doing with my edit of it pretty damn closely! This is a weird recut of what Williams had done. Tack doesn't speak in the visuals.


STUFF FROM THE WORKPRINT?

For the most part, Calvert and company have already made their little cuts and trims to the film. Even at this early stage, they've already cut out most of the little things that are cut out in the final version.

So there is no eating Tack in jail, no Thief getting his hands chopped off, none of that. There's no extra material with the thief and the emerald, and there's none of The Thief attacking the buddha ruby with springs on his feet (sigh).


BUT much of the "adult" material that got cut out is still present here.

You'll be shocked at the random things that are still in this cut.

The maiden from Mombassa is in here. YEP. THE KING HAVING SEX WITH THE MAIDEN FROM MOMBASSA IS IN THIS CUT. I fell out of my chair when I saw that.

Since you asked, it's no more finished than it was in the workprint.

King Nod's bloody dream about the One Eyes appears, in a different spot in the film - at the very beginning actually.

There's more stuff with the Thief at the polo game, which wound up in Calvert's credits.

There's more of The Thief bouncing around as he's trying to get the golden balls from the minaret, again in the credits.

There's part of an extra shot during "Night on Bald Mountain."

The Thief flying his makeshift airplane is in here! Again, wound up in Calvert's credits.

The entire destruction of the war machine is much much longer, and includes most of the stuff from the workprint. The "scissors" and "flyswatter" gags are in here, and so is the Thief dangling precariously over a hot pool at the very end of the sequence.


HILARIOUS TEMP MUSIC!

Oh dear, you're gonna piss yourself. Roughly all of Williams' lovingly chosen music has been replaced by temp music from bizarre sources. Whoever put it together has a weakness for Danny Elfman.


The love theme for Tack and Yumyum? It's the love theme from Edward Scissorhands!

In the Miramax version, Matthew Broderick refers to One Eye's "Army of Darkness." But you can't imagine how funny it is to watch the One Eyes marching to the theme from "Army of Darkness!"

Man, Bruce Campbell and his deathcoaster versus the One Eye War Machine. I think that's a pretty even match.


Once in a while, some Williams music will poke through. They made an attempt to match the music for the witch's dance with Tack - a failed attempt, but it's the same song.

The opening notes of Scheherezade still play when Zigzag does his playing cards thing.

Aaaaaand ..... and this is really cool ..... they matched the music on the reveal of One Eye's camp - that insane shot going away from Zigzag through the fires and dancers, out of One Eye's eye - "Throne!"

It is a different mix or different recording of the same song, whatever that song actually is.

And it plays for much longer than in Williams' version, actually drowning out much of Zigzag's dialogue in the scene. It's nice to hear an extended version of this great music cue.


MEA CULPA

Okay, so I made the decision, six years ago and then this year, to include the final fight between Zigzag and Tack in my edit, even though it doesn't appear in the workprint and seems like the kind of thing Calvert added to make the film more conventionally Hollywoodlike.

I said that the scene was entertaining in its own right, and was animated better than pretty much any other Calvert scene ... even being animated on ones in many shots! It's off model and anime-looking, but unusually well done. I said that because of this level of animation quality, some of it was probably Williams' work, hidden in there somewhere (particularly at the end as Zigzag and Tack are throwing each other around). A certain someone who worked on the film also suggested that Williams did work on some of this.

Okay, well, I've been completely proven wrong by this cut.

The entire fight scene appears here in storyboard form, drawn by idiots, and completely off model. It was humbling to see that, and really be proven, in my face, that this had nothing to do with Williams.


Will I take the scene out of my edit?


I'll think about it. The animation is still good and I've included other Calvert "ideas" in my cut, so who knows. The reason I would take it out is I think it would piss off Richard Williams to see the film this way, if he ever saw it.


Hmm.
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A certain someone is asking some questions and providing some info on the workprint. I'll put this info here as it might help understanding of what exactly the workprint is.

"A workprint was produced a few months before the project was taken from Dick and put onto 2 U-Matic cassettes for exhibiting to would-be composers, financers etc, and also so the crew could view it. (I was actually left in charge of this workprint over night. Oh if only i had a time machine!) The reason I ask is that we produced a HELL of a lot of footage after this workprint was produced as we were on our 'final push'. Dick spent a week storyboarding the unshot sections of the movie to be inserted into the working cut. I don't think a U-MATIC was produced of THAT workprint. It's a shame that i can't see all of the versions you have because I could tell you exactly was Dick's work and what was added after it was taken away."



Me:

And, let me guess, the break between the two U-Matic tapes the workprint was stored on was ...

Tape 2 starting when the Thief passes by the many language signs going for the Buddha Ruby.
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First off, a fully remastered/5.1 sound version of Blooper Bunny appears on the first Looney Tunes 4-disc set. It even has a Greg Ford commentary.


I just finished getting the torrent of both Thiefs (Miramax and workprint), as well as extras (Christmas Carol, commercials, I Drew Roger Rabbit, Animation Art, the making-of).

The Miramax version has a wall-to-wall voice track. They just couldn't let one second pass without someone yakking. The new music is distractingly overloud and drowns out the voices sometimes. It was shocking to see the jump cuts in several places where some of the coolest sequences were originally. All I can say is that it's a shame The Princess and the Cobbler isn't available in widescreen.

The shots not drawn by Richard Williams stand out like a sore thumb. I can't stand Robert Folk's score, either. I was annoyed that the ending clearly intended to have another really long zoom out, ending with the THE END and they covered it up with a freeze-frame (geez, this is THEATRICAL not saturday morning crap) and jump cut to it.

About the "added" shot... you know, I just don't think Williams would have had Tack toss Zig-Zag. That's out of character for both.

However, I was playing around with Vegas (the video editing program I have) and trying out some audio filters to enhance audio. I decided to see if I could modulate some of the Kevin Dorsey overdubs to match the original One-Eye track. Well, I will say that if you absolutely need audio from the Calvert mix, at least lower the pitch to be more gutteral. I tried to an extent, but the problem is that Dorsey didn't read the lines with an English accent like the original voice actor. As a result, the lower-pitched voice fits better, but the lack of an accent hurts.

Oh, and I found something really interesting... I think that the original actor's voice was actually slowed down or made to be a lower pitch. When I adjust the pitch to be higher, it sounds very natural. This makes sense because the workprint voice has a really demonic feel to it that does seem manipulated.


Also, one possibility why the Calvert workprint has stuff that was still in storyboard form in the 2nd workprint... it's possible that Williams had all the paper animation finished but never photographed them for a workprint. One other possibility is that what if some stuff was fully inked and painted already, but not photographed?

One thing that really bothers me, though... in the Miramax LD transfer (via torrent), there's an alarmingly high amount of print dirt and scratches. The DVD isn't this scarred I hope?



By the way, I'm willing to reconstruct "Animation Art" to an extent by replacing all of the clips from DVD versions. This way, we can get high quality shots of Dumbo, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, etc. It'll contrast a lot with the noisy non-clip stuff, but it'll at least do justice to the original animation.



As for GBS-TV airing... now that you have some new footage to work with, there's no question that the airing should wait until you can drop that stuff in.

Whenever it's ready to go, this would basically be the line-up for "An Evening with Richard Williams, The Thief, and The Cobbler"

1. The Commercials Reel (and I'm going to add the title sequences to Casino Royale, The Return of the Pink Panther, and The Pink Panther Strikes Again)
2. A Christmas Carol
3. Animation Art (a reconstruction with clips restored)
4. I Drew Roger Rabbit
5. Who Framed Roger Rabbit trailer
6. The Thief Who Never Gave Up
7. Arabian Knight (in all its mediocre glory)
8. The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut

I don't know if I want to air the workprint, though. The marathon as it is now will be nearly 5 1/2 hours, so adding the workprint would raise it to 7. Showing Arabian Knight and the Recobbled Cut back to back would be more effective, IMO since the workprint and recobbled cut would be pretty similar.

I'm working a commercial bump that'll air on GBS-TV until we have the RW marathon. Once I finish editing it, I'll post it here.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Other things I missed about the Calvert work in progress --

They change certain characters' names.

King Nod becomes King Zod - Nod is just a nickname. Yes, Zod, like Terence Stamp in the Superman movies. General Zod.

...

Even in the final Calvert version, the narration says "Everyone called him King Nod," suggesting again that in Calvert's world this is just a nickname.

(Yet other characters can have names like Tack, Yumyum, Thief, Zigzag, One Eye etc ... why this one character was singled out for his name I have no idea.)

The witch is called the "Magja." Not sure on spelling, but it's a female version of "Magus", singular form of "Magi."

All this merits a huge "WTF?"

>> First off, a fully remastered/5.1 sound version of Blooper Bunny appears on the first Looney Tunes 4-disc set. It even has a Greg Ford commentary.

I knew that it was on one of the sets somewhere, but I don't have those sets and I'd never seen it before. It's great! =)

>>The Miramax version has a wall-to-wall voice track. They just couldn't let one second pass without someone yakking. The new music is distractingly overloud and drowns out the voices sometimes. It was shocking to see the jump cuts in several places where some of the coolest sequences were originally. All I can say is that it's a shame The Princess and the Cobbler isn't available in widescreen.
The shots not drawn by Richard Williams stand out like a sore thumb. I can't stand Robert Folk's score, either. I was annoyed that the ending clearly intended to have another really long zoom out, ending with the THE END and they covered it up with a freeze-frame (geez, this is THEATRICAL not saturday morning crap) and jump cut to it.

LOL. Yep, that's the Miramax version. Well described.

>>About the "added" shot... you know, I just don't think Williams would have had Tack toss Zig-Zag. That's out of character for both.

True enough. I actually cut a couple of things out of the fight sequence in my current cut. I'm thinking of cutting it down shorter, and that might mean cutting it out entirely. Who knows?

>>I decided to see if I could modulate some of the Kevin Dorsey overdubs to match the original One-Eye track.

I'm sure the original track was lowered. I only used Dorsey's dub in that one scene, because that scene didn't appear in full in the workprint, and I wanted to keep it complete with music, from the Princess version. It was weird to cut from the music-y Princess audio to the workprint audio.

I now have the original recordings of both lines from that one scene (with temp music on it - it would match the Princess audio well), so I am considering using the original voice. But I've gotten used to Dorsey's reading of that one scene!

>> Dorsey didn't read the lines with an English accent like the original voice actor. As a result, the lower-pitched voice fits better, but the lack of an accent hurts.

The english accent comes out really thick in the new line from the Calvert work in progress. =) "Nonn shell ischype!"

It's weird to hear that after all these years.

>> Also, one possibility why the Calvert workprint has stuff that was still in storyboard form in the 2nd workprint... it's possible that Williams had all the paper animation finished but never photographed them for a workprint.

No, they were still working on it. A few weeks passed before it was taken from Williams. I knew that before, but our friend has talked about it in his post above.

>> One other possibility is that what if some stuff was fully inked and painted already, but not photographed?

It's a possibility. I've kind of suspected that some stuff of Phido (in Phido's first scene), and other "too good to be Calvert" shots were inked by Williams. Who knows, though.

>> One thing that really bothers me, though... in the Miramax LD transfer (via torrent), there's an alarmingly high amount of print dirt and scratches. The DVD isn't this scarred I hope?

The DVD is not a great print. It's kind of "blown out" - the bright parts of the image, like Tack's face, get overexposed and lose detail. It's not scratchy though. I have no choice but to use it, but I think the colors are truer in the Princess version, which is also an ugly print. For example, One Eye is blue the first time you see him in the Princess cut, but red in the Arabian Knight disc.

Anyway.


>> By the way, I'm willing to reconstruct "Animation Art" to an extent by replacing all of the clips from DVD versions. This way, we can get high quality shots of Dumbo, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, etc. It'll contrast a lot with the noisy non-clip stuff, but it'll at least do justice to the original animation.

That could be nice. There's not many clips, but there are some. There's also Goofy in that one where they're moving, with the piano. You can send them to me, and I'll cut them in when I'm making my DVD of Animating Art. I'm waiting on a better version from Eddie Bowers.


>> As for GBS-TV airing... now that you have some new footage to work with, there's no question that the airing should wait until you can drop that stuff in.

Nah, go ahead with it. At 320 x 240 nobody can tell the difference. Go ahead and show it, it'll be a good preview for it.

You can show the final version later.

1. The Commercials Reel (and I'm going to add the title sequences to Casino Royale, The Return of the Pink Panther, and The Pink Panther Strikes Again)

CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE. That's his best movie work. Include it.

>> I don't know if I want to air the workprint, though.

Please don't. It's crap, and Chris Sobieniak's copy looks like the one I had years ago.

Princess and the Cobbler, again, would be much more fun than Arabian Knight. It's much rarer, it's fullscreen which will play well on your tiny little screens, it's still got all the stupid stuff (including one extra song) but you can watch it without slitting your wrists.

[quote] Does the 2nd workprint have better audio, at least?[/quote]

What, the Calvert work in progress?

There's not much audio that's useable, it's covered by wall to wall music, most of it hilariously recognizable. There are a few things I can use though.

This new copy of the Williams workprint seems to have pretty decent sound, apart from the witch scene and thereabouts where it has almost no sound at all. I'll see what I can do with it. It's certainly all gonna come in handy.
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Yeah, I noticed the contrast was a little odd (I wasn't sure if it was meant to be diffused or not).

By the way, for Animation Art, I have every single clip on DVD except for Pinocchio (I sold my DVD a while ago for a quick $40). However, the GSU library has it, so I'll just rip them from their DVD.

Chris's torrent was excellent, though. Arabian Knight has some interlacing issues (I think I can fix it in Vegas) and Animation Art looks pretty bad... but A Christmas Carol and the Thief documentary both look and sound terrific.

Unless someone can send me the animation segments of "Charge" I think I'll omit it from the credits reel since it's excerpted in the Thames doc. The two Pink Panther credit sequences I'm including mainly because I have the DVD's.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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So'd you have a nerdgasm watching these new materials? Sounds like it'll at least be of some help to you. So where's that put the possible finish date at? Kinda sounds like you get to start over again. Typical. No hurry though.

And just a thought--anything that you cut out that is of any redeeming value, could you possibly include it as extras? Basically, anything that Williams did that you cut for any reason, and the good Calvert material...and it'd be cool if you could include the crazy temporary soundtracks as an alternative soundtrack. It'd be kinda entertaining to hear all of those movie themes popping up throughout the movie.

Anyways, this sounds like it's a pretty big step up. Congratulations.
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I do not envy you the create decision you have ahead of you OCP.

Dr. M

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>> Unless someone can send me the animation segments of "Charge" I think I'll omit it from the credits reel since it's excerpted in the Thames doc.


Chris Sobieniak has them, I just sent them to him. He'll also have Raggedy Ann and Andy now, which is terrible but a lot of fun. And he'll have Princess and the Cobbler, and anything else you need.
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>> anything that you cut out that is of any redeeming value, could you possibly include it as extras?


I didn't cut out anything important that Williams did. And none of the Calvert stuff I cut out has any redeeming value. =) That goes for you, "Beem Bom."


I would like to include some of the rare Williams pencil tests from the Calvert work in progress - that would be a lot of work though!

Speaking of rare pencil tests, I've got some coming to me in the mail, but I don't know what they are. =)


There won't be an alternate audio track, that would be insane - but you'll be able to snag any of the other four (!) versions of the film from me.
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Well the reason I asked about the cuts was that I was concerned that you were going to cut out some of the dirty parts (yeah, I'm juvenile, so what?), and you're talking about cutting the Calvert ending, so...

And hopefully somebody ups the alternate versions at Myspleen.
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I would never cut the dirty parts. I was talking about how Miramax cut the dirty parts. The ones they noticed anyway.

If I cut something that Calvert did, it's because it has little or no artistic value, has no place in a Williams director's cut, and will not be missed. You can "enjoy" the Miramax cut at myspleen.net already anyway ... =)

If you really care about the alternate versions and extra material, you're gonna have to get them from me I'm afraid. I can only guarantee that the Recobbled Cut itself will be upped at myspleen ...

I am fascinated by the four completely different opening sequences this film has had - from Williams' version to Calvert's rough to Calvert's final to Miramax's. Those would be amusing to include.




Tony White writes:

I got your package today and was overwhelmed by it all... again. The
quality is so good... much better than I thought it would be. Thank
you.

I haven't looked at all of the movie yet but the first 30 mins or so
reminded me why I totally think that Dick was (and is) a genius. (A
wayward genius... but a genius nevertheless.) It reminded me why he
trained us up to be ready for just this one film. But, unfortunately,
wasn't able to hold it together long enough to enable us to.

I feel very much that I would love to go back and help him finish it,
his
way... if that were ever able to happen. At the very least, I will at
least write to my contacts in Disney and see if they will re-open the
possibility of Dick finishing it... now that John Lasseter is
effectively
running the animation division. (Yee-hah!!!) Hmmmm??? Must think
seriously about how this could be achieved!

I hope you can send me the new material sometime, included in the
present
edit when its done please? I showed some of my students the 'Charge of
the Light Brigade' material and the trailer you did and they were blown
away by it all. I promised to show them a little more of Dick's work
as
the term goes on and maybe even show them the full movie edit on the
last
day of term. It would be great to include the new material you have
just
got... but if that's not at all possible I will understand.

Anyway, thanks again Garrett... I really appreciate all you are
doing...
and for Dick too. I don't have any contact with him anymore but my
heart
still lies at the core of his 'obsession'.
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Would it be possible to send me a high-quality mp3 of the opening music and narration from the better quality pre-Calvert workprint? I'm assembling a GBS-TV "promo" and it'll be edited around the narration, along with the music.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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I'll do what I can. Gimme a bit tho'.
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Definitely sounds like you've got more work cut out for you. Still, what an excellent find.

I should probably get to watching the workprint. Though I was hoping to put it off until this version was released. Reading this thread has me almost like I've seen the movie. ^_^


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Hold off on watching the workprint, and just watch this cut, when it comes out. =)

http://orangecow.org/thief/gnawthegoldencity.jpg

"And I shall gnaw the golden city to the bone, and spit it out!"

Completed animation only found in the Calvert WIP.


http://orangecow.org/thief/Thiefopening.mp3

For Ogg ... This is how good the sound is gonna sound now! This is the opening narration of the film ... and boy does it sound better than it did.
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Wow, that sounds really good, compared to the workprint. Is this off of the new tapes? And this theme was never used in any of the commercial cuts? My god man.

Lynchings on the front lawn of Miramax's headquarters, first thing tomorrow morning. Yeesh.
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That's my new copy of the workprint. I think it will do nicely. =)



Miramax, if they still existed, deserves a lynching for far more than that. Arabian Knight is an insult disguised as a film. =) It's terrrible.



Here's another oddity I noticed in the Calvert WIP. The witch swinging through the air and hitting the Thief has been cut out entirely. Calvert put that back for the released version, but reedited it a bit from Williams' workprint. I've gone with Calvert's sequencing in my edit.
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Good lord! I can't believe how much better it sounds.

You know, I forgot to ask, but could you possibly also post an mp3 of the March of the One-Eyes? I have an mp3 from my copy of the workprint, but it's very distorted.

I will say this, the GBS-TV airing will just have to wait for the new workprint stuff. Even though it's a mono feed, having that better quality soundtrack will make a huge difference. We may get a huge viewership for the Richard Williams evening I'm planning... hopefully it'll get a lot of people interested.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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I don't know if this is useful or not, but I photoshopped the hands concept art... perhaps you can use it:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8120/hands1ok.png
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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If this is useful...

http://www.vegalleries.com/misccels/43thief0_.jpg

Inserting several digits (as far as I can recall, 1 to 6) instead of the underscore will give links to a number of sketches from the film.