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Understanding the saga - A perspective from T.F.N — Page 2

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Thanks Ell.

But, it seems that every time I post things like this that I find interesting (and that I think might be of interest to others), it turns into a hate thread...
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Don't worry, Adam, we don't hate the playa....just the game.
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Originally posted by: Scout trooper
Yes, you're 17 years old and we're supposed to take your opinion seriously.


That's not really a fair generalization, because I'm 17 too and my opinions and Adam's are completely different (not just on Star Wars-related issues, either). So just remember, not all teenagers are teenyboppers.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Originally posted by: Scout trooper
Yes, you're 17 years old and we're supposed to take your opinion seriously.


That's not really a fair generalization, because I'm 17 too and my opinions and Adam's are completely different (not just on Star Wars-related issues, either). So just remember, not all teenagers are teenyboppers.


That's correct. And you're probabaly implying that I'm one. But the problem with that belief is that I'm not.
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i feel like ive suffered from ADD ever since i first watched tpm
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I think the OT is infinitely better than the PT, because Lucas knew what Star Wars was all about when the OT was made. The OT was about fulfilling his duty as a storyteller, to reframe the myths and legends that mankind has been telling since the dawn of history as a heroic science fantasy. He was the finest student of Joseph Campbell in his hey-day, but I have to say he has lost his way from *at least* '97 onwards. Campbell would be disappointed in Lucas if he was around to see the PT, because the PT only shares surface references to iconic myths and legends. For instance 'Padme' means 'lotus' in ancient Chinese - there was a saying that 'the jewel is in the lotus' - meaning (to simplify it) that "the truth is in the world". In the OT, Lucas would have sought to illustrate the ideal of the proverb itself rather than simply naming a character after a word in the proverb, and then having her hold a massive glowing jewel at the end of TPM, not to illuminate any meaning whatsoever, but to carbon-copy 'manifest' a proverb in a bunch of on-screen actions...don't know if any of that made sense to you guys, but basically, Lucas couldn't see the forest from the trees. He was too busy drawing pretty little trees instead of looking at the whole forest of myth and legend and manifesting it in a new trilogy of sci-fi stories...

Oh, and I'm 21 and my opinion counts.
MTFBWY. Always.

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they should invent a new category for people who make films the way lucas has the past 8 years, lazy cinema, because that all the prequels are. lazy plot, lazy dialogue, lazy fx. all things used by lucas to get from a to b and finally to the classic trilogy
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It's Bizarro Star Wars.

There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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Originally posted by: theredbaron
I think the OT is infinitely better than the PT, because Lucas knew what Star Wars was all about when the OT was made. The OT was about fulfilling his duty as a storyteller, to reframe the myths and legends that mankind has been telling since the dawn of history as a heroic science fantasy. He was the finest student of Joseph Campbell in his hey-day, but I have to say he has lost his way from *at least* '97 onwards. Campbell would be disappointed in Lucas if he was around to see the PT, because the PT only shares surface references to iconic myths and legends. For instance 'Padme' means 'lotus' in ancient Chinese - there was a saying that 'the jewel is in the lotus' - meaning (to simplify it) that "the truth is in the world". In the OT, Lucas would have sought to illustrate the ideal of the proverb itself rather than simply naming a character after a word in the proverb, and then having her hold a massive glowing jewel at the end of TPM, not to illuminate any meaning whatsoever, but to carbon-copy 'manifest' a proverb in a bunch of on-screen actions...don't know if any of that made sense to you guys, but basically, Lucas couldn't see the forest from the trees. He was too busy drawing pretty little trees instead of looking at the whole forest of myth and legend and manifesting it in a new trilogy of sci-fi stories...

Oh, and I'm 21 and my opinion counts.


But see, that's the point. Even in the early 80's, Lucas warned people that the PT would be quite different from what you would expect. The new trilogy would not resemble the other.

So... comparing the two based on the OT just doesn't work. The two trilogy are not meant to be compared, with one being judged against another. They're simply two parts of an overall story that he chose to create in two totally different ways. The OT was designed to be based on mythology.

The PT basically tells you where all those mythic guys came from.

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If the PT is supposed to tell where the myth came from it should follow mythic conventions.

There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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I think the podrace is one of the coolest most enjoyable scene from the PT.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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I think my favorite moment from the PT is the entire sequence in AOTC where Anakin leaves Owen and Beru and everyone to go find his mother. That scene was a very powerful moment that gives me chills every time I watch it. It really represents Anakin's faults as a Jedi quite well, IMHO.
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My favourite parts in the PT are Order 66 and the Duels in ROTS.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

Well, for example, the pod race in TPM may go on for FAR to long, but so do the Jabba scenes in ROTJ.


Something that *didn't* go long enough in ROTJ was when Leia was choking Jabba with the chain. Man I love it when she starts to pop out. hahah.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

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And my favorite moment from the OT is in ROTJ, when Anakin sees his son in pain, and makes the decision to throw Palpatine down the reactor shaft. That is THE most powerful moment in the entire saga, IMHO. It just makes you think toward Palpatine, "Go to hell!"
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

But see, that's the point. Even in the early 80's, Lucas warned people that the PT would be quite different from what you would expect. The new trilogy would not resemble the other.

So... comparing the two based on the OT just doesn't work. The two trilogy are not meant to be compared, with one being judged against another. They're simply two parts of an overall story that he chose to create in two totally different ways. The OT was designed to be based on mythology.

The PT basically tells you where all those mythic guys came from.

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CO's response:

I kinda agree with you Adam, that the PT was never suppose to be better than the OT, it is just a different story, and to me, not as fun. Putting aside quality, and I have a hell of alot of quality issues from the PT,

Which Trilogy has the funner characters?
Which Trilogy has a story that delves right into it in the first minute, than rather having one, possibly two setup movies?
Which Trilogy is not restricted to the other trilogy, meaning it was made first, so Lucas could do anything with the story?
Which Trilogy are the fates of the main players unknown?

Now looking back, even if Lucas put out three great prequel movies, I still don't think we would love them, or like them as much as the OT, it is just a different trilogy. It is more staunch, every character is some type of politician or jedi, what the hell fun is that? The story takes its time getting going, cause it has to give you the macro view of everthing, while telling the story of this boy we already know the fate of, and are just waiting for him to turn evil.

This isn't a defense of the PT, cause we all know it could have been better, but what were we really hoping for? The OT movies are just fun to watch and great movies too, the characters Luke, Han, and Leia are great, the story moves, and the villain is the biggest badass in the history of movies. The secondary characters of Yoda, Lando, Chewbacca, The Emperor, and the glue that holds the first movie together Alec Guinness dies halfway through the first movie. How could Lucas ever top it?

I can only speak for myself, but I think I was expecting more than even Lucas/Kurtz/Kasdan/Kershner in their prime could have put out for the PT. I really do believe 3 excellent prequel movies would still not match the OT, so was it worth it? Now, I really don't think so, it is a different story, different characters that invaded our universe from 1977-83, how can someone strike lightning in a bottle twice? To have these two trilogies as one story, doesn't work for me, and will never work, I think that is where Lucas miscalculated, and should have left well enough alone in 1983.

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Here, I took the liberty of fixing your post for you:


Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
And my favorite moment from the OT is in ROTJ, when Vader sees his son in pain, and makes the decision to throw Palpatine down the reactor shaft. That is THE most powerful moment in the entire saga, IMHO. It just makes you think toward Palpatine, "Go to hell!"



I'm an ass.



Oh, and my favorite scene from the PT: when the ROTS end credits begin to roll, and I realize that the PT is finally over and done with.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Here, I took the liberty of fixing your post for you:


Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
And my favorite moment from the OT is in ROTJ, when Vader sees his son in pain, and makes the decision to throw Palpatine down the reactor shaft. That is THE most powerful moment in the entire saga, IMHO. It just makes you think toward Palpatine, "Go to hell!"



I'm an ass.



Oh, and my favorite scene from the PT: when the ROTS end credits begin to roll, and I realize that the PT is finally over and done with.


That wasn't amusing.
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i dont think the pt and the ot are supposed to be seen as two trilogies, at least anymore, clearly lucas wants us to view all the movies through a pt filter which is why don think it works and why i dont like the prequels
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Sorry if I started something there Adam - it was certainly no my intention. And remember guys, just because we have differing opinions, it doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Adam's views are just as valid as anyones aged 17 or not. ADD or not.

Adam, I am about 12 years older that you mate and have had a much longer time with ONLY the OT. I grew up with it. Of course I am going to prefer it and the fact that I know it back to front (especially Empire now) means that I must have a genuine affection for it. It was and still is a big part of my life. It got me into working in the industry for a start.

I don't really like to bash TF.N either. I think it's a pretty decent site at times and at least lets us have a discussion now and again. We can be such a polarized community at times and posts like Adam's can be thought provoking and they certainly give me an insight into the workings of a kid that's grown up with the prequels.

In reference to your line "The PT basically tells you where all those mythic guys came from". I think that's the problem for most of us OT lovers. We loved the myth and the mystery of the OT characters - who are they, what drives them etc. The point is, it was ambiguous enough for us to make our own interpretations regardless of our circumstances. The PT just went and spelled it all out on a whiteboard - and simply patronised it's audience.

Adam, keep posting and we'll keep discussing (and bitching!). Some of us can be bitter old bastards though

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