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I wonder how many silly kids are waiting for Episode IV to be released? — Page 2

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Scotty, I love The Beatles analogy. Of course, Paul did go back and make Let It Be... Naked, but it didn't replace the original Let It Be.

Neither am I a prequel hater. I find them enjoyable and entertaining. I do, however, think them to be like a wicked stepmother who suddenly comes in and attempts to change your entire life around, and your wussy father just allows it to happen without raising a finger. Your big admiration of the prequels... or, sorry, the whole saga is that it fits together so well as one big story. To be honest, if the prequels had actually done that, I would have been impressed with them. If I had watched them and gone, "Wow. That's just like they always said it was going to be. I can see how that really expounds on what the original movies already told me was going to happen," then I would be completely satisfied with them. I still wouldn't consider them to be onecompletesagatobewatchedinnumericalorder because that's just silly. But any shmuck can artificially create continuity by putting patch jobs on his previous works when he suddenly comes to the much too late realization of, "Oh, wait. I just made this movie, and it doesn't fit what I said before." But prequels are always a very tricky business because it is so easy to contradict yourself with them. It takes a really excellent storyteller to be able to be able to work around what he already has to fit continuity and still tell the story he imagines. George just couldn't cut the mustard, so now he just pretends that he never made any mistakes, "Because, see the movies? See, I introduced Naboo in Return of the Jedi. I'd always planned that. Isn't it cool how I managed to get Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi enen though he was a toddler then because I knew I'd be casting him a decade and a half later. It was all part of my vision. They fit together perfectly!"

Yeah, that's just silly, isn't it?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Scotty Balls
Mario,

Let me put it another way:

How would you (or anybody else here) feel if Paul McCartney & Ringo Starr went back into the studio and made changes to Sgt. Pepper, and then claimed it that the changes finally made the album the way they had originally wanted it to be in 1967?


Very interesting example, because that DID happen. With the Let it Be album. I don't remember the exact details, but yeah they did that. The difference is that the original version is availiable on the same format (CD).

I know we shouldn't forget the classics and they should be available, I'd just rather watch them the new way.
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Originally posted by: marioxb


Very interesting example, because that DID happen. With the Let it Be album. I don't remember the exact details, but yeah they did that. The difference is that the original version is availiable on the same format (CD)


Technically, that DIDN'T happen. Nothing was added to Let It Be. The Original Phil Spector produced version of Let It Be was NOT what the Beatles had originally intended. I'm a bigger Beatles fan than I have ever been a Star Wars fan, and I can tell you without a doubt, that Let It Be (originally titled "Get Back") was intended to be the Beatles getting back to basics. Four guys live in the studio with no overdubs. The ONLY addition was Billy Preston adding the occasional Organ part, but again LIVE in the studio. Let It Be... Naked was the original intention.

Using Let It Be as the analogy is incorrect, because it is the EXACT opposite of what Lucas has done. He didn't remove things that weren't supposed to be there originally, He added things that were never there. In addition, The Beatles NEVER said that the 1970 album didn't exist after released LIBN. Lucas has refused to acknowledge the OOT ever since the release of the SE in 1997.

I appreciate the fact that you tried to use my analogy to make your point, but you were a bit mistaken.

"...all Jedi Had was a bunch of muppets." - Dante Hicks (Clerks)

Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
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this is such an interesting subject to comment on, but i've read the early draft for STAR WARS, and REVENGE OF THE JEDI and stuff. But GL wrote like 1 page worth of 'prequel' stuff before starting STAR WARS, but he was only gonna make episode 4 (or so he says ). Now i think its totally wrong to change stuff for the sake of the prequels. The films were fine and showed the technolgy of the day. I think that if he would have made episode 1-3 more like 4-6 it would have been better. I do like the prequels there entertianing but not as good as the OT. And i don't let the changes bug me cuz he'll do whatever he wants no matter what someone says so i jsut in enjoy it. I mean would i trade my 04 dvd set for pristen copies of the OOT on DVD, in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by: Scotty Balls
Mario,

You are consistantly missing the point. You keeps saying that the PT and the new version of the OT are Lucas' original vision, and what he intended all along.

Just about everybody here has been proving you wrong. Lucas' original vision of the back story is what is shown in the rough drafts of the screenplay. If you'd actually take the time to take your face away from GL's crotch and/or ass & download the early drafts, you'd see just how full of shit Lucas is now.

When you finally do that, you'll see through the bullshit and then you WILL get the point.


Let me put it another way:

How would you (or anybody else here) feel if Paul McCartney & Ringo Starr went back into the studio and made changes to Sgt. Pepper, and then claimed it that the changes finally made the album the way they had originally wanted it to be in 1967?


The point is, his vision has changed over time, and he has changed or re-done his films to accomadate this. Big deal. It happens. And if Paul and Ringo wanted to change their works, I say more power to them. They wrote it, so they have the absolute right to change their work to the way that makes them happy. After all, it's not their responsibility to make everyone happy. They merely make the films they want, and people can take it or leave it. I think that is the best an artist can ever hope to do.
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Maybe I need to go to the preservation forum. When my thoughts turn to the SEs my feelings could be equated with Anakin telling Padme of the Sand People in AOTC, "I hate them!"

Whaaa? so there is no thread on it at the pres forum or what?

I still hate the SEs.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
The point is, his vision has changed over time, and he has changed or re-done his films to accomadate this. Big deal. It happens. And if Paul and Ringo wanted to change their works, I say more power to them. They wrote it, so they have the absolute right to change their work to the way that makes them happy. After all, it's not their responsibility to make everyone happy. They merely make the films they want, and people can take it or leave it. I think that is the best an artist can ever hope to do.


Hate to be nitpicky, but Ringo didn't really write many of those songs. And although most of them weren't really collaborations, every song written by Paul or John was attributed to both of them, and, as we all know, John's dead.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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so adamwan because you didnt know that the oot existed for 20 years cg free, gives you the right to say the hell with the oot and all of its fans, you cant be this arrogant can you?
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But in this case, it was Lucas' idea. He owns it. He can do what he wants with it.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
But in this case, it was Lucas' idea. He owns it. He can do what he wants with it.


NOT SO!

Like someone else said before, Once art is released, it becomes the property of the PUBLC, NOT the artist

"...all Jedi Had was a bunch of muppets." - Dante Hicks (Clerks)

Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
But in this case, it was Lucas' idea. He owns it. He can do what he wants with it.
i know he does but it doesnt mean he has to act like an asshole about it

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I always keep coming back to the Ian Malcolm quote from Jurassic Park: "You were so preoccupied with whether or not you could, that you never considered whether or not you should." And then those silly people got eaten!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Scotty Balls
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
But in this case, it was Lucas' idea. He owns it. He can do what he wants with it.


NOT SO!

Like someone else said before, Once art is released, it becomes the property of the PUBLC, NOT the artist


Not so. It is ALWAYS the artist's. People who like something a lot only think they own it. For instance, although you may think you own all of your DVDs, all you really own is the liscense to play those DVDs.
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Just like with the Hayden ghost thing, you're being far too literal with our meaning! I don't think anyone here doesn't accept the fact that George can legally change the movies as much as he wants. He owns them. To be honest, I admit that I envy him for being able to own his films, unlike other directors/writers whose films belong to the studios they make them for. But he's abused his own property so much that you begin to wonder if it's truly a good idea. But, yes, legally, he can do what he wants. That doesn't necessarily make it right for him to do so. We know we don't truly own the Star Wars movies, but we have a responsibility to them. We're the reason they exist. And he depends on us to keep making them. He's released them to us, but now he just acts like he's driving a cart, and we're his horse, and he's just dangling the carrot in front of us. And that seems right to you?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Honestly (and don't take this the wrong way because it's not meant to be offensive) he doesn't owe us a damn thing.
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More to the point - I wouldn't say "power to them" if anyone but the entire band The Beatles decided to change one of their own songs - which is not possible these days.

Whoever said that 'Let It Be' was meant to be stripped down originally was correct, but they gave it to Phil Spector because they thought it sounded like shit, to be frank. So for Paul McCartney to come back and say "this is the way it was originally intended" (while correct) and release it, is kind of misleading given that George and John are dead. This circumstance is slightly different, though, because we do know that it was meant to be stripped down to begin with.

Back to the point - I wouldn't say "power to Lucas" now that he's changed the OT on the basis that he owns the films, because he didn't single-handedly make the films. Perhaps if Kurtz, Kasdan, Kershner (or the relevant director for each film), AND Lucas all agreed to go back and change the films, it would have my blessing. It isn't all Lucas' art - he collaborated. He directed ANH, sure, but aside from that, he wrote the STORY. And that is a very loose thing. I could write ten pages full of ideas and that could be the story for a movie (in fact, I'm doing it right now!). Aside from that, it's safe to assume that George sat down with other people like Kasdan, and worked through ideas, some of which would have been rejected because they were probably crap (which, as you can see, probably isn't what happened with the prequels) and Kasdan (among other, like Leigh Brackett) wrote the SCREENPLAY. I don't know if any of you have ever written a screenplay, but it is a LONG and arduous task! It is one of the bigger jobs, along with directing, and cinematography, editing, etc.

If, however, Lucas wished to change the prequels, which he directed and wrote the SCREENPLAYS for, I would say "power to him". I hate the prequels as they are anyway, so who cares? But that's not the point. The point is, Lucas may own Star Wars (and let me remind you that the Louvre owns artworks such as the Mona Lisa, and wouldn't DARE change them), but he did not create the OT single-handedly despite the way he talks in featurettes, and therefore it is not entirely his 'artwork' so to speak. So while the fact that he owns it may allow him legally to change whatever he wants about the OT, I do not believe that he has the right to. I do, however, believe he has the right to change the PT, as he owns, directed, and wrote the screenplays for them.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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I still don't agree with the "more power to him" aspect, even with the prequels, which I'm already pissed have been altered from their original versions. The "Let It Be... Naked" subject is entirely different since it is, simply, "Let It Be... Naked." It's not "Let It Be." I could walk into a CD store or Wal-Mart, for that matter, and pick up a copy of "Let It Be" if I wanted to. And that's never going to change. They're two separate albums. Paul didn't suddenly say, "Hey, this is your last chance to own Let It Be, so you'd better hurry before it's gone forever!" No. It's simply an alternate version. Not a replaced version. That's the difference.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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and thats what makes lucas an asshole in my book
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AWK, i feel you truely are missing the point. Your posts are so hypocritical and flip flop more than a fish out of water.

You try to take the Let It Be example and use it to justify or support Lucas' actions when its already been pointed out that its totally different. Countless times you've said that Lucas was making the film closer to his 'original' vision, yet a few posts back you stated that his vision changed over time. So which is it? are the films now his original vision or are they his current vision? you can't have it both ways.

There is more evidence to support that its a change in vision, which is fine, but like the old addage goes, 'if it aint broke, dont fix it'.

The Mona Lisa comment brings up another good point. It is currently owned by a Museum, but thats just property. they didnt create it, da Vinci did. So its his work, not the Museums. Just like Star Wars is owned by Lucas but is the collaboration of so many different people, from writers, directors, actors, to the lowly intern that was in charge of light number 3293 on set 492 during take 5 of scene 3 (made up numbers to illustrate a point). So when Lucas changes the film, sure he's changing a piece of his property, but he's also changing the artistic work of countless people 'because there my toys and if we cant play my way then im leaving and taking my toys with me'

Also, Honestly (and don't take this the wrong way because its not meant to be offensive) he does owe 'us' a damn thing. without 'us', the fans, there would be no Star Wars and no Lucas. Sure the movie might exist, but he wouldnt be where he is if not for the fans. Im not saying he legally owes us anything, such as payment, but is it really too much to ask for a 1 time limited run of the originals to make the people that helped get you where you are today happy? All artist, be it musicians, actors, directors, writers owe it to their fans to give them some respect and appreciation because admit it or not, with out fans of their work these people would be nothing.

I could go on, but its not gonna change your mind. You'll probably respond with your typical 'good point' or maybe an 'i see your point but....', or some other one line post that doesnt really add anything new and spew forth the same crap you always do and we'll get posts that take one side or the other from you depending on the position of the stars during the time you post, you'll never really get the significance of the originals and the effect that there changes have on film history, no matter how many times its logically presented to you or just plain shoved down your throat.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: skye_solo
I have a friend whose older brother watched the originals a lot when she was a kid. Like most girls she didn't pay any attention, and says she didn't understand it. Now she has seen the PT and is a big fan of it, but doesn't bother to watch the originals because of memories that "they were hard to understand" (???????). It's extremely annoying to me, but I am trying to lead her to watch the OT. She doesn't have anything against it, just is lazy about it I guess. I know there are actually a lot of people out there like this. I've talked to them.


She thinks the OT is hard to understand and the prequels are easy to understand? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

The OT: boy meets droids, wizard, pirate and wookie. They save princess. Blow up space station. Go to ice world to hide. Boy meets muppet wizard. Pirate and Princess fall in love and get captured. Pirate gets frozen, boy fights evil masked man. Finds out evil masked man is his dad. The gang rescues the pirate. They have another space station to blow up. Meet up with a bunch of teddy bears. Boy faces evil masked man daddy. Tempted to become evil by old wrinled man. Evil masked man saves boy and becomes good again and then dies. Teddy bears help the good guys blow up shield, second space station blown up. They live happily ever after.

PT: Trade disputes, senate hearings, gambling on pod races. Slavery. Midichorians. Trade federation negotiations. Seperatists. Evil Sith Lord living a double life as a Senator and then the Chancelor of the Republic. Jedi Councel meetings. Hired assasins. Bounty hunter used to create clone army.

George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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That....that was amusing.

Girls are probably more likely to keep watching when "gorgeous, luscious, sexy, and hotttt" are used by them to describle the main character of two of them and a little kid and stupid humor are very present in the first.

But this is a rash generalization based on...well.....some very specific people. But it probably doesn't apply here.....tho I'd suspect its there a little bit.

Hey look, a bear!

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Originally posted by: JennyS1138
Originally posted by: skye_solo
I have a friend whose older brother watched the originals a lot when she was a kid. Like most girls she didn't pay any attention, and says she didn't understand it. Now she has seen the PT and is a big fan of it, but doesn't bother to watch the originals because of memories that "they were hard to understand" (???????). It's extremely annoying to me, but I am trying to lead her to watch the OT. She doesn't have anything against it, just is lazy about it I guess. I know there are actually a lot of people out there like this. I've talked to them.


She thinks the OT is hard to understand and the prequels are easy to understand? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

The OT: boy meets droids, wizard, pirate and wookie. They save princess. Blow up space station. Go to ice world to hide. Boy meets muppet wizard. Pirate and Princess fall in love and get captured. Pirate gets frozen, boy fights evil masked man. Finds out evil masked man is his dad. The gang rescues the pirate. They have another space station to blow up. Meet up with a bunch of teddy bears. Boy faces evil masked man daddy. Tempted to become evil by old wrinled man. Evil masked man saves boy and becomes good again and then dies. Teddy bears help the good guys blow up shield, second space station blown up. They live happily ever after.

PT: Trade disputes, senate hearings, gambling on pod races. Slavery. Midichorians. Trade federation negotiations. Seperatists. Evil Sith Lord living a double life as a Senator and then the Chancelor of the Republic. Jedi Councel meetings. Hired assasins. Bounty hunter used to create clone army.


Least The Original Trilogy is interesting and enjoyable to watch with its simple to understand plot even to me now after seeing them at least 200+times each, but there were times when I watched Ep1 & Ep2 and I was bored out of my head and had to switch them off despite its more complex plot there was times i didnt find it interesting .
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Originally posted by: JennyS1138
Originally posted by: skye_solo
I have a friend whose older brother watched the originals a lot when she was a kid. Like most girls she didn't pay any attention, and says she didn't understand it. Now she has seen the PT and is a big fan of it, but doesn't bother to watch the originals because of memories that "they were hard to understand" (???????). It's extremely annoying to me, but I am trying to lead her to watch the OT. She doesn't have anything against it, just is lazy about it I guess. I know there are actually a lot of people out there like this. I've talked to them.


She thinks the OT is hard to understand and the prequels are easy to understand? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

The OT: boy meets droids, wizard, pirate and wookie. They save princess. Blow up space station. Go to ice world to hide. Boy meets muppet wizard. Pirate and Princess fall in love and get captured. Pirate gets frozen, boy fights evil masked man. Finds out evil masked man is his dad. The gang rescues the pirate. They have another space station to blow up. Meet up with a bunch of teddy bears. Boy faces evil masked man daddy. Tempted to become evil by old wrinled man. Evil masked man saves boy and becomes good again and then dies. Teddy bears help the good guys blow up shield, second space station blown up. They live happily ever after.

PT: Trade disputes, senate hearings, gambling on pod races. Slavery. Midichorians. Trade federation negotiations. Seperatists. Evil Sith Lord living a double life as a Senator and then the Chancelor of the Republic. Jedi Councel meetings. Hired assasins. Bounty hunter used to create clone army.


Yeah, I don't get it. I'm a girl...grew up watching them. I'll have to work on her a little harder. She wants to see them, but apparently needs a lot of explanation. My theory is that because she didn't pay attention to the OOT the first time around, then actually really WATCHED the PT, she is now confused. So much damage has been done...sometimes it's frustrating.